Requesting Flight Following

[bobmrg]

Planning a XC to area where I didn't do much training and looking to use Flight Following (which I also didn't do much of during my training), think I know the process but for those who's gone through this busy airspace, was hoping I could gut-check with you experts:

-Heading from KCDW (Caldwell, NJ) to K31E (Eagle's Nest airport near Atlantic City) on Sunday

1. Call KCDW ground as normal, indicate departure to the south, transitioning MMU (Class D) and request flight following (I've never requested FF on the ground, what will that say that's different?)
2. After takeoff, request freq change to MMU
3. Clear transition with MMU, again, transitioning to the South direct to 31E
4. Once I'm clear of MMU airspace, contact NY approach on 128.55, tell them who, where, how high, direct to 31E and request flight following. Assume they'll give me a squawk code
5. QUESTION: as long as I'm out of the Bravo, FF is not control right? So, I don't need to request altitude changes?
6. QUESTION: It'd be great to fly through A-220; this doesn't require clearance from anyone, correct? Just awareness
7. I imagine that New York will at some point hand me off -- will it be to Philly (on 123.8) or Atlantic City on 134.25?
8. I need to ensure that R-5002 isn't hot as I'll be flying awfully close to it -- do I ask this of this controller?
9. When I'm close to 31E, should I request a frequency change to let them know I'm going to the CTAF??

Think that's it. Not a very long flight distance wise but like to have everything pre-planned in my head as best I can.


Thanks!

1. You don's say anything different, just add "request flight following" to your normal ground control transmission.
2. Not necessary to request a frequency change once you have left CDW airspace (AIM 4-3-2).
3. If you are getting flight following, coordination with MMU tower is the responsibility of the controller, not you. At what altitude are you flying through MMU airspace (if at all)? Sure you won't be above it?
4. You are already on flight following.
5. It is a good idea (not a regulation) to advise ATC prior to altitude changes in busy airspace....and you are flying in busy airspace.
6. Right.
7. Dunno.
8. If you are still on flight following, you will be advised.
9. "Terminate flight following. Thanks for your help."

You seem to be hung up on requests and permissions. There is one class of airspace that requires a clearance: Class B. (Class A does, but you won't be flying that high for a long time.) Everything else is a communications requirement. Tell ATC what you want to do...be assertive.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE

 

[jason]

Yes, that's where I finally found it once I knew the correct frequency. I didn't find it in Foreflight, but I didn't look at the IFR chart.

I'll give you an even easier way. Tap and hold down on the screen (as close as you can to your little blue airplane) until the little until the popup comes on that allows you to choose things near that location. Click into the airport nearest to your current location and the center frequency will be listed right there on the airport information page. You can do the same thing to find the nearest/best FSS frequency.

 

[MAKG1]

Call whoever controls the airspace. It'll never be FSS. If it's class D then call the tower. If it's class C or B call approach, if it's outside all that then call ARTCC (Center). Only the entity that controls the airspace you're in can give you flight following.

Most importantly, if you get it wrong, you'll be handed off right away.

I did this leaving Fresno (Chandler) once. I figured that one of the departure frequencies listed for KFAT was appropriate, as it was barely 5 miles away, underneath Class C. No, KFCH has a different frequency for Fresno departures, and I got handed off instantly.

 

[MAKG1]

For example, I don't know how comfortable I would be landing or taking off from Palo Alto or San Carlos (both class D airports under / near one Bravo - SFO - and two Charlies - SJC and OAK)..... still.

Us locals learn all the local landmarks to avoid the airspace, and it is charted on the back of the TAC.

But all the ATC facilities, including Tower, NorCal, etc., will advise you to keep you clear. Just Saturday, I got the following instruction from PAO tower, for an arrival through Sunol Pass:

Warrior 8256E enter right base for 31, altitude below 1500.

The altitude restriction was to avoid SJC class C, which has a 1500 foot floor. The locals generally watch for the "Salt Pile" (Leslie Salt) and remain north of it to avoid the altitude restriction (not many of us like crossing the bay at such a low altitude).

If you're in contact with NorCal, you don't have to stay out of Class C. But generally, that close to PAO, you're talking to PAO Tower, not NorCal.

Having said that, it's the PIC's responsibility to stay out of airspace without meeting the requirements, and planning landmarks in advance may be a good idea, just in case ATC gets swamped.

There have been a couple of times where I couldn't raise NorCal due to traffic/workload or other reasons.

 

[ainokea]

I use flight following all the time. It's pretty simple.

Contact ground and tell em where you're going and they'll give you a squawk code.
Once you're off in the air tower will hand you off to approach.
Contact approach and let em know who you are, where you are and altitude and your requested altitude.
From there just follow their directions and they'll hand you off to the next approach controller and the frequency to use and so on.
Once you see your destination airport you can do a VFR descend and cancel flight following.

 

[denverpilot]

Once you see your destination airport you can do a VFR descend and cancel flight following.

Why bother canceling? If they have radar coverage to the surface, just leave it alone. If they don't, they'll cancel you out anyway.

 

[jpower]

Do be aware that not all towers (grounds) will set you up with flight following. At the website of the tower at Easton, MD (ESN), they explicitly note that they don't set pilots up with FF. Same at Lancaster, PA (LNS). I'm not sure if that's just some grouch that wrote that and the actual controllers are nicer, but that's what they "officially" say.

 

[MAKG1]

At some airports, they want you to make the request with Ground (or Clearance Delivery) instead of Tower.

But if it really isn't an option before takeoff, once you've left Class D, you can contact Departure or Center like you would have for an uncontrolled airport.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Why bother canceling? If they have radar coverage to the surface, just leave it alone. If they don't, they'll cancel you out anyway.

Cancel your flight plan. You are flying VFR. ATC only cancels for you if you are IFR.

 

[Jaybird180]

Why bother canceling? If they have radar coverage to the surface, just leave it alone. If they don't, they'll cancel you out anyway.

It's the courteous thing to do.

 

[Jim Wilkins]

It is a terrific idea to use FF to get used to working with ATC while you are getting your IR. I'd recommend you get FF on every flight for the whole flight. You'll want to get so comfortable working with ATC that it will be just second nature. Eventually you won't have to TRY to listen; when you hear your call sign it will be an automatic trigger to your brain to start listening. Even the 'advise ready to copy amendment to your clearance' will become easier when you get comfortable talking to ATC. My Instrument instructor told me three of the most useful phrases are "Stand by" ; "Repeat after 'xx' " ; and "Unable". I'll add my own "Confirm 'xx' " I've never had any ATC get upset with these phrases. If I tell them 'unable' I usually give them a reason (" unable climb to 12,000 due to icing " ). I have heard them get frustrated with other pilots who don't listen or provide a lot of unnecessary talking when they are busy. I find it easier to tell them I'm going off frequency ("Center, 1MS would like to go off frequency to check weather" ) then to try to listen to both at the same time, or take a chance on missing a call. They almost always just say "1MS, report back on frequency". If my son is with me we use the split frequency function (the pilot and co-pilot are using different radios and not listening to each other's) on the audio panel so he can write down the ATIS for me.

Practice calling Flight Watch to ask for weather updates; they are your friends on long trips and you will want to get comfortable with them, too. Even with a Sat Link on board for Metars, TAFs and Nexrad, if the weather is changing quickly or not as forecast I like to talk to Flight Watch. ( "Flight Watch, Mooney 1MS; Palmdale; 1-2 thousand Westbound" ). Just tell then your type aircraft, where you are going, and what you need.

Traffic is frequently difficult to spot, so a very frequent phrase is "negative traffic; looking". They don't care if you have traffic on your display; they want to know if you have visual contact. When I do spot the traffic I'll call in "Center, 1MS has the traffic at (1 O'clock)". Don't think calling out traffic for you is just VFR; I've had ATC call out traffic when I can't even see the wingtips. In that case my reply is "Negative traffic; 1MS is IMC".

One more comment about VFR flight following:

One difference between VFR flight following and IFR to watch out for:

Sometimes Center gets busy and you can get very close to your destination's airspace and still be on Center's frequency. Approach is usually pretty good about telling you to go to the tower frequency after they ask you if you have the airport in sight and the ATIS. It is YOUR responsibility to contact the tower in a reasonable time before you enter the airspace. If you are getting close to the tower's airspace (this has only happened to me with class D for some reason) tell Center you are switching frequencies. I have been gently 'reminded' a couple times by the tower that it would be nice to have a little more warning before calling them up JUST outside their airspace. Don't passively wait for Center to 'tell' you it is time to call the tower; if you are getting close tell Center you are switching over. If you can't reach Center, you still need to call the tower well before entering their airspace.

Jim

 

[denverpilot]

Cancel your flight plan. You are flying VFR. ATC only cancels for you if you are IFR.

No, he said cancel flight following. Flight plans and flight following (VFR) are completely unrelated. He didn't say the flight plan, he said he cancels flight following.

As far as it being "courteous" to cancel flight following... Why? Interrupting the controller to drop you when a) they already have in their head where they need to drop you, or b) they know you're going somewhere that has radar to the surface and they were planning to hand you off to a tower...? Calling up and asking to be dropped is actually more disruptive than just waiting on their lead.

Beating them to the punch if you KNOW you're going into somewhere without radar coverage and you've been dropped there before, is fine... but if you're out on a real XC, you rarely know. There aren't any well-published radar coverage maps anywhwere.

Keep the service as long as it can be offered. There's no benefit to either side in the pilot canceling early, VFR.

IFR you're opening up the airspace for other IFR flights, and that can be useful if the weather is CAVU.

If you're going into a towered airport and they have the correct gear, they'll even get your data block.

 

[denverpilot]

My Instrument instructor told me three of the most useful phrases are "Stand by" ; "Repeat after 'xx' " ; and "Unable". I'll add my own "Confirm 'xx' " I've never had any ATC get upset with these phrases.

Even "Say again, I can't read my own handwriting" works.

 

[PPC1052]

Why bother canceling? If they have radar coverage to the surface, just leave it alone. If they don't, they'll cancel you out anyway.

If you are landing at a non-towered airport, you will want to cancel so that you can contract the traffic on CTAF, and give position reports. If you are going to be landing at a non-towered airport, though, you will likely get an instruction from ATC to advise when the field is in sight. Once you do confirm you have the airfield in sight, they will typically (in my limited expertience) advise of any traffic between you and the air field (or confirm there is none), and cancel flight following, and give you permission to change the frequency. You can then make your call on CTAF for the uncontrolled airport.

 

[Jim Wilkins]

As far as it being "courteous" to cancel flight following... Why?

It is courteous so that the controller is not trying to call you after you have changed to another frequency. We have all heard controllers trying to reach someone who is not responding; they are actually handing VFR flight following as a courtesy to us AS WORKLOAD PERMITS. It's the same reason I usually ask '... would like to get radar services (or flight following) if your workload permits...' unless they really are so busy I need to be really efficient with my verbage.

It's not a lot different than saying 'goodbye' at the end of a telephone conversation before you hang up.

Unless there is a reason to change freqs without telling them, why not be polite and thank them for the help?

 

[denverpilot]

It is courteous so that the controller is not trying to call you after you have changed to another frequency. We have all heard controllers trying to reach someone who is not responding; they are actually handing VFR flight following as a courtesy to us AS WORKLOAD PERMITS. It's the same reason I usually ask '... would like to get radar services (or flight following) if your workload permits...' unless they really are so busy I need to be really efficient with my verbage.

It's not a lot different than saying 'goodbye' at the end of a telephone conversation before you hang up.

Unless there is a reason to change freqs without telling them, why not be polite and thank them for the help?

Ahhh I see. You guys live where the uncontrolled airports have radar service. It's pretty rare out here except under the Bravo. We get cancelled out long before 10 miles out if we're getting near pattern altitude.

 

[AuntPeggy]

No, he said cancel flight following. Flight plans and flight following (VFR) are completely unrelated. He didn't say the flight plan, he said he cancels flight following.

As far as it being "courteous" to cancel flight following... Why? Interrupting the controller to drop you when a) they already have in their head where they need to drop you, or b) they know you're going somewhere that has radar to the surface and they were planning to hand you off to a tower...? Calling up and asking to be dropped is actually more disruptive than just waiting on their lead.

Beating them to the punch if you KNOW you're going into somewhere without radar coverage and you've been dropped there before, is fine... but if you're out on a real XC, you rarely know. There aren't any well-published radar coverage maps anywhwere.

Keep the service as long as it can be offered. There's no benefit to either side in the pilot canceling early, VFR.

IFR you're opening up the airspace for other IFR flights, and that can be useful if the weather is CAVU.

If you're going into a towered airport and they have the correct gear, they'll even get your data block.

Sorry, I misread or misremembered the thread.
Nevertheless, cancel flight following, too. Usually you will be prompted by ATC with instructions about 5 to 10 miles out that the airport is n miles at m o'clock, p aircraft in the pattern, radar services terminated, squawk 1200. Usually they will stay with you until you say you can see the airport.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

One "cheat" I told my students, if you dont know the freq to get flight following, your chart goes out the window, etc you can always dial up 122.0 anywhere and state your position, ask for the freq for flight following and they will get the freq for you.

 

[Jaybird180]

One "cheat" I told my students, if you dont know the freq to get flight following, your chart goes out the window, etc you can always dial up 122.0 anywhere and state your position, ask for the freq for flight following and they will get the freq for you.

....ummmm hello....anyone there.....I'm in an airplane and I need Flight Following....

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Umm, hello, N1234 5 miles north of XYZ looking for the freq for flight following.

 

[bobmrg]

....ummmm hello....anyone there.....I'm in an airplane and I need Flight Following....

According to the A/FD Legend pages, 122.2 is assigned as the common enroute frequency, so there is no need to emphasize the fact that you are in an airplane. I thought that it was an excellent suggestion.

Bob Gardner