Request to rent a plane from a private owner with a compelling personal story!

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spacedout444

Filing Flight Plan
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Jul 11, 2013
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avi8tr
A compelling personal story, hoping to rent a plane for now

Greetings,

I need about 75 more hours XC and PIC total to be able to take my instrument and commercial checkrides, and I am looking to borrow a plane from a private party in the month ahead to do this and knock all of this time out. I am willing to pay a reasonable amount, however I'm looking to get the time done all within about a months timeframe because that's the time I have.

Here's the deal: Recently, I flunked out of AF Pilot Training on my last check-ride accumulating about 225 hours (jet and turbo-prop), and I do have about 350 hours total and my PPL. Even though the hours I need now won't do much good towards helping me with passing my check-ride, and I feel more then prepared due to my experience, I want to do this the right way, the honest way.

Thus if there is anyone in the San Antonio area now, or Pensacola FL area come Aug 1, who would be willing to work something out I would be very thankful, I am willing to consider other locations as I can take some leave to get this done. Preferrably I'm looking for a C172, or SR20 for time, as those are most cost effective, although when I take my Comm Checkride I'll hope to do it in a Piper Seminole, for the ME Rating to add on. I would also be willing to lease an aircraft from someone for a 1 month period to get this done too.

In case anyone was curious on what my plans were...after my Instrument and Commercial, I'll plan on obtaining my CFI and instruct, fly on my own when affordable and fly for the Civil Air Patrol in an effort to attain my ATP 1500 hours requirement, then when the time is right and after my commitment is up (~7 years from now), I'd like to transition to the airlines. Base on the upcoming shortage of pilots I would hope I have a good shot at it, but maybe some of the airline pilots in here can advise me otherwise....

My thought is, I need to give myself as many options as possible so I don't get stuck doing something that isn't the right fit, while not having to sacrfice quality of life to GTFO (i.e. taking a huge pay cut or transitioning to unskilled labor with a graduate degree - yikes!), I feel like this holds true for all walks of life, becase you never know what obstacles can and may get in your way. My motivation for doing all of this is that I love to fly and travel, I caught the bug about 18 months ago when I started accumulating hours before starting USAF training, it's an honorable profession, although pricey, and one that I think takes a lot of work, and requires many dues to be paid and sacrifices to be made, but is ultimately rewarding for me. Best of all once you are good at it this, it feels like you'll never work a day in your life for me, at least because I like it so much and enjoy the challenge.


Soon, I'm going to be reclassified as a Combat Systems Officer and hopefully land a seat in the back of an F-15 due to my experience and proficiency and since there are no career prospects for those folks, because there is no civilian equivalent to the job, I plan on using the opportunity to principally be the best at what I do, and also use the money I'll get to pay for my flight ratings along with a Masters degree in case things don't pan out for whatever reason and just keep giving myself more options, that's all I know how to do at this point! There's still a slim chance I could get back into the pilots seat in the military far from now, but I'm not going to even toss that idea around until the opportunity presents itself. I believe that i am a good pilot, I just hit some bumps along the road. I have no doubt I can overcome, I've come WAY to far already to not see this through - especially because it's what I want to do.

Any thoughts and comments are appreciated, so please PM me or reply to the thread as appropriate.

Aircraft flown
T-6A
T-1A (Beechjet 400)
C-172
Extra 330
DA-20
Hours ~ 350
 
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Sounds like a reasonable plan. As far as the plane goes I'd think you would have a better shot at renting from a larger FBO. I know that those with larger fleets would be happy to rent a plane out a month at a time. I know the one where I got my PPL and IR did ( Hortman Aviation at KPNE). When you rent that large a block they will usually give a discount as well. Good Luck.
 
So you don't think I'd have much luck just borrowing from someone who owns a plane for ~$50 an hour, that's what I'm hoping for. I just flew with a flight school who isn't getting much business, are you saying that If I call them, I can work something out to get a much cheaper price that isn't advertised, maybe something close to 1/2 of what is advertised? If I plan to do it over a short amount of time and increase ther current profits by paying 1/2 of what's advertised that's a win-win situation - I'll look into that
 
No I seriously doubt that a school will give you 1/2 off thats at the best a very very close margin for them and more likely a loss. But it never hurts to ask. Go in and say I see your Warrior rents for $115 and hour If I rent it for 50 hours over the next three weeks what kind of price can you give me. Remember the discount is likely going to come from the dry rate so 50% is crazy low.

As for private planes well I guess it could happen but not likely from someone who flies a lot. If that's truly the route you want to go, visit a few airports and find the line guys and ask them which planes are just sitting, then contact those owners and see if that is fruitful. Remember though airplane owners can be funny people. Even if their bird has been sitting for a year to them its their baby or worth twice what it actually is.
 
Seriously doubt you're going to find that kind of nice setup, but give me a call this evening when I should be back from my X/C flight. I'm in the San Antonio area and could at least give you a local lowdown.

Ryan
 
spacedout444 said:
If I plan to do it over a short amount of time and increase their current profits by paying 1/2 of what's advertised that's a win-win situation - I'll look into that
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No such animal dude... most of the flight schools I know of are barely breaking even on the aircraft they rent. I know, because I have worked for two of 'em (that were among the cheapest around) and rented out my Taylorcraft that I just sold. Profit is a marginal thing in the flight school world.

As far as private individuals go, you might find something, but you'll need to convince them of their lack of personal risk and liability in the event of your having a mishap.

Ryan
 
Lol you want an sr20 for 50 an hour, and you think there are shortages of airline pilots what's going on here?
 
The cheapest rental aircraft I know of are going in the $75-80 range. One's an LSA, the other is a Cub - but it has no insurance and you'd need to purchase some rental insurance if you wanted to take it out solo.

Ryan
 
Let me see if I got this straight. You flunked out of AF pilot training, you need hours to get your IF and CPL rating, your tag is spacedout444, and you want to fly my plane on the cheap(for much less money by the way than it costs me to run my plane) to get these hours. Not sure it works for me. Sorry count me out.
 
spacedout444 said:
So you don't think I'd have much luck just borrowing from someone who owns a plane for ~$50 an hour, that's what I'm hoping for. I just flew with a flight school who isn't getting much business, are you saying that If I call them, I can work something out to get a much cheaper price that isn't advertised, maybe something close to 1/2 of what is advertised? If I plan to do it over a short amount of time and increase ther current profits by paying 1/2 of what's advertised that's a win-win situation - I'll look into that
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The problem is that you're not just "borrowing" the plane like you would with a car. There's substantial amounts of money they're spending for every hour you fly it. I can't tell if you're looking for a dry rate and then willing to fuel it yourself. That *might* work at half off if you have a very generous owner.

But any wet rate you'll never discounted by 50%. That SR20 you want to rent as a "cost effective" choice is still going to burn $70 worth of gas every hour, before you even consider the other costs like maintenance and engine reserves, insurance, etc.
 
With 350 hours you should be able to take your Instrument, get that out of the way. Your best chance to get 75 hours at a discount rate would be to find someone to rent to you dry and with a block of time. With engine reserves and oil changes my aircraft costs me right at $60 an hour. That is based on starting out with an engine that already has 1300 hrs on it. If my engine was newly re manufactured the dry rate would be closer to $30 but none of this includes hangar rental or insurance or subscriptions for GPS data. Fuel is another $60 based on $6/gal and 10GPH. It is still going to cost you way more than you are wanting to pay.

My BS meter is telling me there is more to this story than we are hearing.
 
I think my C-172 costs me about $100/hour to fly wet. That includes the set-asides for engine, instruments, etc, insurance, tie-down, and 100 hour inspection.
 
I can't even start up Fat Albert and taxi around at $50 an hour.
It is not just gas and oil. Every hour is another hour towards a $25,000 engine change. Brake pads and rotors are wearing. Tires are wearing. The vacuum pump is spinning. Gyros are wearing down. The door is being slammed. Electronics are getting more hours on them. The carpet is getting wear and tear. The windows are getting sand blasted with each flight. Micro scratches are building up on the paint job. and on and on.

If you can find a plane at your offered price - good on ya.
I'm not holding my breath.

cheers
 
Likewise here Peggy, mine is $120/hr wet but that doesn't include insurance, subscriptions, hangar, or annual. It's the curse of having a mid time engine and starting with a $0 engine reserve.

And then there would be the whole insurance deal, if I rent my aircraft that changes everything and forget about under the table payment

OP, please don't take offense, this is the real educational part of being a pilot and ownership brings to light a lot of things you just don't see as a non owner pilot. We fly with a lot more TLC as owners also.
 
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As a private owner i don't know that I'd ever let some random person rent my airplane. If it is someone that I know, maybe. Sounds like a non equity partnership in a flight club might be your best bet?
 
The issue is time building?

Why not acquire a $15-20k trainer, and fly every day possible building the required time and logging the appropriate maneuvers?

Once done, keep it as a personal fun machine or sell it to another up and coming cadet.
 
douglas393 said:
Let me see if I got this straight. You flunked out of AF pilot training, you need hours to get your IF and CPL rating, your tag is spacedout444, and you want to fly my plane on the cheap(for much less money by the way than it costs me to run my plane) to get these hours. Not sure it works for me. Sorry count me out.
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I am surprised that you wrote that. I was laughing so hard while thinking the same thing that I could barely operate the keyboard. :yes:
 
There is a chance you can find someone to make it work, but not even close to the price you wish to pay, even with cheap gas I'm burning $74 in fuel per hour and a 172 about $48, even your DA-20 is $27.

What you will likely find is someone willing to make the following deal
1) YOU pay for the insuresnce required to "rent" the plane from them
2) YOU pay for all the fuel
3) YOU pay for the maintenance/overhaul reserve


Add that up and compare to rental rates and given the relatively small number of hours you wish to fly I think you are much better off renting.
 
AuntPeggy said:
I think my C-172 costs me about $100/hour to fly wet. That includes the set-asides for engine, instruments, etc, insurance, tie-down, and 100 hour inspection.
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My Warrior is running at $92/hour to operate wet right now. So you guesstimate is right in the ballpark. Having some one, who failed out of flight training wanting to rent it from me at $50/hour is truly laughable.
 
Great%20story,%20compelling%20and%20rich.jpg
 
Please correct me if I am wrong but AF pilot training is tough and not making the cut is not such a black mark as some here would have it be.

That said, OP needs to specify if that $50 is wet or dry. Wet is out of the question, dry should be at least a possibility. Especially considering that I pay $40/hour dry for an IFR 172. And normally burn around 6.5 gph.
 
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I'd look for a flying club. That, or buy a cheap Cherokee or 172 and sell it when you're done. It will still cost you plenty, but it can be done for less than the cost of a lot of new cars.
 
I might mention that I was "renting" the Luscombe for $20/tach hour dry plus a share of fixed expenses since I had to be added to the insurance. Fuel burn about 5 gph tach. Once I did the 50 hours I initially wanted and came off the insurance (flew open pilot), we went to a straight $70/tach hour wet. That from a private party and I counted it an excellent deal for me. For pattern work 1 hour tach = 1.4 in the logbook; xc was close to 1:1 but I did not use it for xc.

Point being that there are airplanes out there that can be flown for cheap if you can find a willing owner.
 
Nope. Fully owned for 13 years. In that time, we've bought 2 engines, upgraded avionics to a Garmin 530, and reupholstered, plus all other required maintenance and inspections.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Nope. Fully owned for 13 years. In that time, we've bought 2 engines, upgraded avionics to a Garmin 530, and reupholstered, plus all other required maintenance and inspections.
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Understand. Just FYI on the 100hr inspections... you don't need to do them if you own the airplane and fly it for personal use. Sounds like a nice plane.
 
It is a nice plane. We fly cross-country, Atlantic to Pacific or Atlantic to Oklahoma a couple of times a year. We also have an autopilot to help out a little.

We generally fly ~200 hours per year when we are both flying. We have gone a year in-between and decided that the 100 hour is safer. Too much stuff can go wrong in 200 hours. Besides, Hubby has started teaching in the C-172, so to be legal, he needs to do the 100 hour inspections.
 
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Re: A compelling personal story, hoping to rent a plane for now

spacedout444 said:
..... fly for the Civil Air Patrol in an effort to attain my ATP 1500 hours requirement,
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spacedout444 said:
..... Base on the upcoming shortage of pilots I would hope I have a good shot at it
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I dont think you have a good idea about CAP, the "pilot shortage" or this industry.


How did you fail out of AF training??
 
Buy a FlyBaby and purchase cost aside you can run it for less than $50/hr.
 
ScottM said:
My Warrior is running at $92/hour to operate wet right now. So you guesstimate is right in the ballpark. Having some one, who failed out of flight training wanting to rent it from me at $50/hour is truly laughable.
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Our ownership club's Warrior is about the same, and we assess every year or two for things like interior, paint, equipment upgrades, and 'surprises'.

OP, if you are serious about building time buy your own plane with a fresh annual!! The simpler the better, a C152 would be a great choice. There's never been a better time to buy. Figure on flying it for a year and several hundred hours, and selling it for half what you paid for it after that year.

Move to some little town with a friendly A&P and low gas prices. Live in a trailer. Don't date.

You'll rapidly become employable as a CFI, and employable as a regional pilot when you reach 1500 hours.
 
I'm still trying to figure out what part of the OP's story is compelling. Flunking out of flight school doesn't quite qualify. Good luck. I once calculated the per hour cost to fly my little puddle jumper. I made a very firm commitment to never do that again. I'd not have blinked at $50/hour.
 
JimNtexas said:
..... Figure on flying it for a year and several hundred hours, and selling it for half what you paid for it after that year.
....
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Good god man!

So after 1 year at 250hrs the plane is only worth half what you paid?

If you are ever selling one of these planes for half last years market value shoot me a PM :wink2:
 
But, you guys are missing the point, if you rent your plane to him for $50 an hour he'll give you a cashiers check for $150 an hour and all you have to do is give him $25 an hour kick back in cash - it'll all work out.
 
JimNtexas said:
You'll rapidly become employable as a CFI, and employable as a regional pilot when you reach 1500 hours.
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But he's still in the USAF - they might have something to say about the moonlighting . ..
 
.NineThreeKilo said:
Good god man!

So after 1 year at 250hrs the plane is only worth half what you paid?

If you are ever selling one of these planes for half last years market value shoot me a PM :wink2:
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Don't tell the original poster, but there is a good chance that he will get all his money back perhaps even have a couple of dollars more than what He put into the plane. especially if he purchases a very modest airplane like a Cessna 150.

his problem is that he has no conception of how expensive airplanes are to operate, I would rather he be pleasantly surprised at the end of his ownership experience rather than dead broke and bitter. But don't tell him I said this. :)
 
spacedout444 said:
So you don't think I'd have much luck just borrowing from someone who owns a plane for ~$50 an hour, that's what I'm hoping for. I just flew with a flight school who isn't getting much business, are you saying that If I call them, I can work something out to get a much cheaper price that isn't advertised, maybe something close to 1/2 of what is advertised? If I plan to do it over a short amount of time and increase ther current profits by paying 1/2 of what's advertised that's a win-win situation - I'll look into that
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Bwahahahah, no. 20 years ago you could get an ancient C-150 dry for about that. You won't get 1/2 off, block rate is typically a 10% discount. Doesn't your AF base have a flying club? Typically they are the cheapest rates going.
 
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