Renting during corona virus

[NoBShere]

Hi all, so I haven’t flown a rental in a couple weeks, mainly due to schedule. The rentals are available now but, I can’t seem to come to a conclusion for myself as to whether jumping in a rental is an issue or not. If it weren’t for the financial impact this must be causing the school/club where I rent, I would just wait. I could quickly disinfect the “touch” surfaces in the cockpit. What are other renters doing?

 

[Tantalum]

Hi all, so I haven’t flown a rental in a couple weeks, mainly due to schedule. The rentals are available now but, I can’t seem to come to a conclusion for myself as to whether jumping in a rental is an issue or not. If it weren’t for the financial impact this must be causing the school/club where I rent, I would just wait. I could quickly disinfect the “touch” surfaces in the cockpit. What are other renters doing?

Our club told us it was business as usual, they didn't fall under the lock down (or whatever we want to call it) status. Just a recommendation of be safe, and to wipe down surfaces. There is a *lot* of airplane availability and good weather

Sucks, I *really* miss flying.. but, with everything here closed, the social stigma of it, and honestly financial uncertainty for *all* of us I just can't really justify taking off and burning holes in the sky. Sure I could fly from SEE up to SBA or something.. but then what? Everything's closed everywhere. I'll probably spend over $500 .. and will have added an additional load to an already potentially decreased ATC capacity. Even if socially I can justify it, when you add everything back in it doesn't make sense

For students though I could see this being a great time to practice tough and go's and things like that.. assuming of course you can actually still go rent and the club is open

 

[Palmpilot]

I just assumed that it would fall under the heading of non-essential travel. One of my flying clubs has all the planes grounded, and the other has any planes scheduled.

 

[chartbundle]

Our club told us it was business as usual, they didn't fall under the lock down (or whatever we want to call it) status. Just a recommendation of be safe, and to wipe down surfaces. There is a *lot* of airplane availability and good weather

Sucks, I *really* miss flying.. but, with everything here closed, the social stigma of it, and honestly financial uncertainty for *all* of us I just can't really justify taking off and burning holes in the sky. Sure I could fly from SEE up to SBA or something.. but then what? Everything's closed everywhere. I'll probably spend over $500 .. and will have added an additional load to an already potentially decreased ATC capacity. Even if socially I can justify it, when you add everything back in it doesn't make sense

For students though I could see this being a great time to practice tough and go's and things like that.. assuming of course you can actually still go rent and the club is open

Apparently half of Oregon came to the coast yesterday by plane(the rest drove). Our weekly airport BBQ is cancelled since it's a city owned building and there were only 2 crew cars, who almost certainly went to the fish market along with every other tourist on the coast as their parking lot was full. Now every mayor on the coast is trying to get the governor to close the state.

 

[Brad W]

great question.
I'm only a few flights in on my "knock the rust off BFR". Figured I was getting very close to finishing it up. Took a couple weekends off..daughter's birthday and then something else came up... had my next flight on the books for next weekend. Makes be sick a little bit, but I just canceled it this morning
Figured I'd free up the schedule for someone else that wants it worse than me.
I'm getting caught up in the hysteria I suppose...(maybe a bit justifiable given a history with bronchitis type stuff and pneumonia)

• but I figure every time I go out now I'm exposing myself to more transmission vectors needlessly....need to get gas for my truck more & who knows who else I may need to interact with.
• even if I wipe down all the surfaces with disinfecting wipes that's not an absolute that you got all the little buggers...or maybe you forgot to wipe the seat adjust knob, or maybe I didn't let the chemical stay wet on the surface quite long enough, etc... Maybe it's not the bad one that I catch, but maybe I catch the "regular flu" which weakens my immune system.....
• maybe I just caught it on my last jaunt out and now the next guy that comes through is much older and has even a higher risk. I don't want to be responsible or passing it along if I can help it....
• & besides, I thought.....who knows how my financial situation is going to hold out through this...do I really need to be spending so much just now?

 

[Clip4]

In case you aren’t getting the message. Stay home.

 

[PaulS]

Go for it. Jump in your car, drive to the airport, keep 6 feet from everyone, wipe down the controls, fly, safer than going to the grocery store in my opinion. I'm away right now, but I would come into contact with one person, no need to get close, if I could rent.

 

[Shawn]

In case you aren’t getting the message. Stay home.

The orders all over the place allow for lots of things to leave your home including "Outdoor Activities"...The MESSAGE is AVOID other people and practice social distancing and extreme prevention measures to prevent spread. We are NOT in a lockdown. We are tying to instill common sense in preventing spread.

Now, if you don't understand THAT without instituting Marshall Law...then yeah, stay home.

 

[Clip4]

The orders all over the place allow for lots of things to leave your home including "Outdoor Activities"...The MESSAGE is AVOID other people and practice social distancing and extreme prevention measures to prevent spread. We are NOT in a lockdown. We are tying to instill common sense in preventing spread.

Now, if you don't under stand THAT...then yeah, stay home.

Except airplane rental is not an excluded business where such bans exist. Fools who can’t stay home are going to prolong this entire event.

793 people died in Italy yesterday bring the fatalities to 4500. So far in the US 414. This is not a drill. No, you can’t wait until people around you are getting sick first.

 

[Clip4]

 

[Jumpmaster]

Actually it’s a great time to fly solo or with your partner. Been very nice weather here in the PNW. Gas prices are down and there is no one at a lot of airports so social distancing is not a problem. Did have to wait in line at the self serve pump the other day but kept lots of distance and used gloves to fuel. The downside is all of the restaurants are closed in Washington, most of Oregon and Idaho but that’s ok. My home drome (KCOE) was busy on Saturday - I would estimate 20 or so aircraft were flying and the local flight school was busy. Not so sure about that.

 

[DesertNomad]

The main flight school here in Reno closed last week. Our Governor has ordered all non-essential business closed for 30 days.

 

[sarangan]

Think about how you would feel if you have a mechanical failure and land off field, and have to be taken to the hospital at a time like this.

 

[NoBShere]

Thanks for replies. I believe I have considered all of the comments made here to some degree. I thought I was making too big of a deal about this but, given the variety of comments, I’m glad I am thinking through this.

 

[JonH]

Thanks for replies. I believe I have considered all of the comments made here to some degree. I thought I was making too big of a deal about this but, given the variety of comments, I’m glad I am thinking through this.

It's only two weeks. Sort it out then.

OP: CLEAR PROP!

 

[Warmi]

View attachment 83857

Oh please...


Everyone on that picture needs to eat, drink, sleep , s**it and p**s, drive, collect their paychecks etc ... none of that can happen without tens of thousands of other people not staying home.

People should use their common sense and understand what is being asked of them rather than following advise from simpletons who can only articulate orders - I.e “ shut up and stay home”

 

[nrm2430]

It’s tempting to go up since the place I rent is still open and has had a drop in business meaning more plane availability. But with my financial situation being affected by the virus situation, I can’t justify going up. Plus all there is to do is land and taxi back because you can’t do much or even sit down and eat anywhere. It’s almost like, “yea I can go, but what’s the point?” Maybe I will one day just to keep from getting rusty.

 

[Tantalum]

Here is the thing, this should be taken seriously and prude behavior exercised

Playing frisbee on the beach with 15 people or throwing a party in your house is dumb

Stopping the world economy.. I mean we're doing some real damage here. Many people don't have the financial luxury or freedom to stay at home for a few weeks. I really hope we're doing the right thing

150,000 people die every day globally.. about a third of those causes are not natural, with road deaths in the top 10. We are not on an economy stopping March to halt those deaths either. We just accept that there's a good chance we'll get in a car crash in our lives, and maybe die. We accept smoking might kill us, and have accepted that bad diets lead to heart disease, the number 1 non natural killer, but we're not closing all the fast food chains and mandating stricter food standards

The potential for the hospitals to be overwhelmed is there, but Ila part of me feels like this is a heavy handed "burn the whole house down to kill the spider" approach

But yes - OP should stay at home

 

[Warmi]

The potential for the hospitals to be overwhelmed is there, but Ila part of me feels like this is a heavy handed "burn the whole house down to kill the spider" approach

But yes - OP should stay at home

It definitely feels that way, especially when you have idiots like Cuomo pronouncing “This is about saving lives and if everything we do saves just one life, I'll be happy.” while he is disrupting countless lives and destroying source of income for tens of thousands of people.

 

[Clip4]

Oh please...


Everyone on that picture needs to eat, drink, sleep , s**it and p**s, drive, collect their paychecks etc ... none of that can happen without tens of thousands of other people not staying home.

People should use their common sense and understand what is being asked of them rather than following advise from simpletons who can only articulate orders - I.e “ shut up and stay home”

In a perfect world it’s only the anti authority types who’s loved is denied emergency treatment because the hospitals are slammed with virus victims.

 

[Warmi]

In a perfect world it’s only the anti authority types who’s loved is denied emergency treatment because the hospitals are slammed with virus victims.

Whatever .. there is no point discussing this with you.
Couldn't help but notice that , at least judging on what you post on this board, your seem to have a mindset of a mid-level bureaucrat, the type that would be most happy in some kind of semi-dictatorial regime environment where mid-level bureaucrats get to yell at people and tell them what to do and what not to do, just because they are mid-level bureaucrats with a script to follow ...

 

[Clip4]

Whatever .. there is no point discussing this with you.
Couldn't help but notice that , at least judging on what you post on this board, your seem to have a mindset of a mid-level bureaucrat, the type that would be most happy in some kind of semi-dictatorial regime environment where mid-level bureaucrats get to yell at people and tell them what to do and what not to do, just because they are mid-level bureaucrats with a script to follow ...

Even to top level bureaucrats who normally sick their heads in the sand realize the storm that’s coming. That’s why governors of both parties are shutting it down before it gets totally out of hand.

 

[Tantalum]

There ought to be smarter ways of going about this. If only we had some kind of pandemic response team and plan, that could ensure stocking of supplies, streamlining of communication to media and citizens. If only.

 

[PaulS]

There ought to be smarter ways of going about this. If only we had some kind of pandemic response team and plan, that could ensure stocking of supplies, streamlining of communication to media and citizens. If only.

We do and they are doing just about everything they can. I'm seeing individuals asking for companies and industries to nationalized, asking for quasi martial law imposed, and other things that quite frankly, don't make sense. Patience is what's important. Help when you can.

I got a request looking for GA pilots to transport scientists to keep them out of the public while they work. This had to do with solving the projected respirator shortage issues. People are coming together, things are getting done. We need patience now, we don't need knee jerk stupid things done.

 

[Tantalum]

We do and they are doing just about everything they can. I'm seeing individuals asking for companies and industries to nationalized, asking for quasi martial law imposed, and other things that quite frankly, don't make sense. Patience is what's important. Help when you can.

I got a request looking for GA pilots to transport scientists to keep them out of the public while they work. This had to do with solving the projected respirator shortage issues. People are coming together, things are getting done. We need patience now, we don't need knee jerk stupid things done.

People are, but that's at an individual level. Just recently you saw Cuomo and DeBlasio at odds with each other, and many guidelines around what a "lock down" or "shelter in place" actually entail are not fully known when they first roll out. The industries are adapting, people all learning what's "essential" and what's not.. and banks are adapting as they can. But for an advanced society you would think that there be some standardized operating procedures that fall into place when this happens. Maybe there's too much "pilot" in me, but imagine if every time things didn't go as planned a crew had to start from scratch.. "gee, we can't see the runway and we're really close to the ground.. should we press on or go around? If we go around, where should we go? By the way, do you have any idea how much gas we have onboard? How low should we fly before we try again? 50 ft, 200 ft? 1,000 ft?" - that's what it feels like at least. Not the first pandemic in history.. though they happen rarely, with so much at stake financially and from a health perspective, there are certainly some good takeaways from this when the dust settles

-martial law = dumb

-nationalizing companies = that's a somewhat understandable response from people who are at risk of losing their jobs (or who already have) seeing billions go to the companies (some of whom had record revenues and spent their money on buybacks.. and/or are registered elsewhere to avoid as much taxes as they can) get the money instead. If the gov is going to bail industries out at whole, I can get the desire for there to be some equity stake in that. I've also heard of talk of bypassing the companies altogether and just giving the bail out equivalent to the unemployment offices, doesn't sound like a great idea either, but can understand the perspective. Boeing is a good example though, with the Max, 767, and Starliner debacles, and the already existing huge defense contracts they get, I can understand why someone may not want to see them get a bail out. Not taking a position here, just that I can understand the perspective

*But I agree, no knee jerk reaction.. need to think this through carefully

 

[PaulS]

People are, but that's at an individual level. Just recently you saw Cuomo and DeBlasio at odds with each other, and many guidelines around what a "lock down" or "shelter in place" actually entail are not fully known when they first roll out. The industries are adapting, people all learning what's "essential" and what's not.. and banks are adapting as they can. But for an advanced society you would think that there be some standardized operating procedures that fall into place when this happens. Maybe there's too much "pilot" in me, but imagine if every time things didn't go as planned a crew had to start from scratch.. "gee, we can't see the runway and we're really close to the ground.. should we press on or go around? If we go around, where should we go? By the way, do you have any idea how much gas we have onboard? How low should we fly before we try again? 50 ft, 200 ft? 1,000 ft?" - that's what it feels like at least. Not the first pandemic in history.. though they happen rarely, with so much at stake financially and from a health perspective, there are certainly some good takeaways from this when the dust settles

-martial law = dumb

-nationalizing companies = that's a somewhat understandable response from people who are at risk of losing their jobs (or who already have) seeing billions go to the companies (some of whom had record revenues and spent their money on buybacks.. and/or are registered elsewhere to avoid as much taxes as they can) get the money instead. If the gov is going to bail industries out at whole, I can get the desire for there to be some equity stake in that. I've also heard of talk of bypassing the companies altogether and just giving the bail out equivalent to the unemployment offices, doesn't sound like a great idea either, but can understand the perspective. Boeing is a good example though, with the Max, 767, and Starliner debacles, and the already existing huge defense contracts they get, I can understand why someone may not want to see them get a bail out. Not taking a position here, just that I can understand the perspective

*But I agree, no knee jerk reaction.. need to think this through carefully

I saw a comment on another venue to the effect of, "No bailout, these companies can pull themselves up by their bootstraps." My response to the that is, absolutely, these companies can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, they do it by severely cutting costs as warranted by revenues, or more accurately, revenue drops. What is the largest cost for most companies? Personnel. Bailouts, via loans to be paid back, can lessen the impact to these companies, allowing them to keep employees working. I dislike bailouts, in an ideal world they would not be done, but the carnage is real and the carnage decimates those who can least afford it, the games that are being played with this are despicable, people need to pay close attention to who is causing the problems and vote them out in November.

There were huge failures with this pandemic. The most egregious failure, in fact I think it was criminal, was the Chinese communist government covering up and lying about what was going on in Wuhan, probably starting in the fall, continuing to the middle to end of January when it became very apparent there was an issue.

The supply issue is partly or mostly due to people's bad behavior, buying up more supplies than they will ever use, including cleaning wipes, masks and gloves. The supply will start catching up, but it takes time to get the "machine" churning to the increased demand. The toilet paper issue is just blatant stupidity, selfishness really, tough to fix.

These are certainly strange times.

We'll get through this

 

[Tantalum]

There were huge failures with this pandemic. The most egregious failure, in fact I think it was criminal, was the Chinese communist government covering up and lying about what was going on in Wuhan, probably starting in the fall, continuing to the middle to end of January when it became very apparent there was an issue.

For sure. China deserves all the international condemnation possible, and the dysfunctions of the nation be brought to light. Live meat markets with rotting dogs on tops of cages next to someone skewering live bats and selling them. It's absolutely nuts. It isn't just about cultural differences like "well we don't eat dogs so that seems weird to us, but eating cows might seem weird to someone else" <- it goes way beyond that. Imagine walking through piles of unrefrigerated meat in the open without any semblance any kind of sanitary practice.

Bailouts, via loans to be paid back, can lessen the impact to these companies, allowing them to keep employees working. I dislike bailouts, in an ideal world they would not be done, but the carnage is real and the carnage decimates those who can least afford it, the games that are being played with this are despicable, people need to pay close attention to who is causing the problems and vote them out in November.

The politics of it are discouraging. There was a moment of light when people all favored a stimulus, but now it got delayed, and the media is not helping to stoke bipartisan behavior when two headlines on big outlets say almost identically opposite things. If we are worried about the workers, then requirements should be in place that will limit exec pay and ensure that the workers get X amount of said bailout.. or just give the bailout directly to the workers. The auto industry is still questionable if that bailout should have happened.. sure we saved some companies, but they've continued to offshore jobs, close plants, and are way behind the ball as far as embracing cars US buyers actually want (excluding trucks and specialty things like Corvette, Mustang). Learning from the auto industry bailout, that should not have happened https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670 if we really care about the workers and that really is the main cost then pay them directly while the company figures it's stuff out. Its a win/win for the company, they get to keep their workforce and FTEs to pivot / adapt / while the workers keep their jobs. Otherwise who knows how that money will really be spent

We'll get through this

Indeed we will. And I'd still take this over a host of other potential nightmares (world ending asteroid, alien invasion, WW3, a worse, deadlier pandemic, etc.)

 

[PaulS]

For sure. China deserves all the international condemnation possible, and the dysfunctions of the nation be brought to light. Live meat markets with rotting dogs on tops of cages next to someone skewering live bats and selling them. It's absolutely nuts. It isn't just about cultural differences like "well we don't eat dogs so that seems weird to us, but eating cows might seem weird to someone else" <- it goes way beyond that. Imagine walking through piles of unrefrigerated meat in the open without any semblance any kind of sanitary practice.


The politics of it are discouraging. There was a moment of light when people all favored a stimulus, but now it got delayed, and the media is not helping to stoke bipartisan behavior when two headlines on big outlets say almost identically opposite things. If we are worried about the workers, then requirements should be in place that will limit exec pay and ensure that the workers get X amount of said bailout.. or just give the bailout directly to the workers. The auto industry is still questionable if that bailout should have happened.. sure we saved some companies, but they've continued to offshore jobs, close plants, and are way behind the ball as far as embracing cars US buyers actually want (excluding trucks and specialty things like Corvette, Mustang). Learning from the auto industry bailout, that should not have happened https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670 if we really care about the workers and that really is the main cost then pay them directly while the company figures it's stuff out. Its a win/win for the company, they get to keep their workforce and FTEs to pivot / adapt / while the workers keep their jobs. Otherwise who knows how that money will really be spent


Indeed we will. And I'd still take this over a host of other potential nightmares (world ending asteroid, alien invasion, WW3, a worse, deadlier pandemic, etc.)

You forgot zombies. I think the point of the bail out is to keep the companies viable, sending the money to the employees doesn't help the company keep them. I'm ok with exec comp being limited and no buybacks allowed until the loans are paid back in full. Beyond that I think it becomes counter productive. The auto bail out is tough to discuss without getting political, so I'll leave it alone.

The China food situation, I believe, is a result of the large foot of an oppressive communist country oppressing it's people. I can't believe that people would choose dogs, bats, worms, rats and other risky foods if farmed food were readily available. The problems are a direct consequence of an authoritarian oppressive government that is communist. I'm hoping that government is overthrown by it's people in my lifetime.

 

[sarangan]

The China food situation, I believe, is a result of the large foot of an oppressive communist country oppressing it's people. I can't believe that people would choose dogs, bats, worms, rats and other risky foods if farmed food were readily available. The problems are a direct consequence of an authoritarian oppressive government that is communist. I'm hoping that government is overthrown by it's people in my lifetime.

I could be wrong, but I thought these wild exotic animals were being consumed only by the upper class Chinese as medicinal.

 

[Tantalum]

I could be wrong, but I thought these wild exotic animals were being consumed only by the upper class Chinese as medicinal.

I think it depends, some stuff, yes. Other stuff just because there is no other options

 

[Warmi]

Bailouts ... ah these enormous piles of cash that were not there just yesterday , now magically appearing out of nowhere - 1 trillion, 2 or maybe even 4 !!!

Where does this magical money come from ?

 

[schmookeeg]

Think about how you would feel if you have a mechanical failure and land off field, and have to be taken to the hospital at a time like this.

Like wringing my [IA, Engine Builder, last A&P who touched the plane]'s neck, same as before?

 

[PaulS]

Bailouts ... ah these enormous piles of cash that were not there just yesterday , now magically appearing out of nowhere - 1 trillion, 2 or maybe even 4 !!!

Where does this magical money come from ?

They print it, plain and simple.

 

[James331]

Make your own choices just be responsible

Don’t go chasing people down and coughing on them, wash your hands, carry on

 

[James331]

They print it, plain and simple.

Recent new, now they can to no end too

 

[Matthew]

My FBO rental fleet is grounded for the next 30 days. Today is day 1 of our KC metro (4 county) lockdown on non-essential business.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

Bailouts ... ah these enormous piles of cash that were not there just yesterday , now magically appearing out of nowhere - 1 trillion, 2 or maybe even 4 !!!

Where does this magical money come from ?

Our children.

 

[Tantalum]

Our children.

It's funny because it's true