Renter Assist Inspection

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evapilotaz

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Drone airspace abuser
I understand there is owner assist annuals with a A/P.

I wonder if I can do a renter assist with a Rental? How about during the 100 hour inspection. I would like to get to know the airplane I frequently rent more intimately. I think I could learn a lot from it. Has anyone done this.
 
I wouldn't so much as remove an inspection plate on an FBO-rented plane. Too much liability.
 
I second that. I wouldn't mind poking my head into the shop after they have it taken apart to see what I can see, but otherwise YouTube and pictures are the answer for me until I get my own plane.
 
I don't know a decent mechanic that would not mind someone else removing all the inspection plates once he gets to know you.

The mechanic puts his name on the line, not the helper.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I wouldn't so much as remove an inspection plate on an FBO-rented plane. Too much liability.
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Cowering fear of the "liability" boogeyman. It's a wonder anything ever gets done at all or that we still manage to function as a society :rolleyes:
 
evapilotaz said:
I understand there is owner assist annuals with a A/P.

I wonder if I can do a renter assist with a Rental? How about during the 100 hour inspection. I would like to get to know the airplane I frequently rent more intimately. I think I could learn a lot from it. Has anyone done this.
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That's actually how I got my first job as an aircraft mechanic. I was observing the IA/shop owner doing a 100hr inspection on a 152 I was training in to learn the particulars of the machine and I'd stick my hand where it would help to hold this or that and he asked, "You want a job?"
 
Our flight school put a new engine in our Cherokee 140 shortly after I took my checkride. The mechanic was more than happy to explain as he went. I picked up a good bit from him during that replacement.

I guess it all depends on the mechanic.
 
I recently asked my flight school's mechanic if I could watch/help/participate in any way. He signed me up on the spot, except when the plane came in for it's 100 hour I wasn't available, sux. I recommend just asking.
 
I can't imagine working on someone else's airplane unless it was a good friend.
 
evapilotaz said:
I just want to watch and not interfere in the process. I don't want to get my hands dirty on a airplane I don't own. Sounds reasonable.
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There really is no better way to learn systems than to get your hands dirty. Especially when troubleshooting.
 
Silvaire said:
Cowering fear of the "liability" boogeyman. It's a wonder anything ever gets done at all or that we still manage to function as a society :rolleyes:
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Great comment Silvaire, Although I do understand where Jeff is coming from.

Fear of liability is most definitely strangling this country and reducing initiative.:nonod:
 
RalphInCA said:
Great comment Silvaire, Although I do understand where Jeff is coming from.

Fear of liability is most definitely strangling this country and reducing initiative.:nonod:
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To be clear, I would be willing to turn screws as an employee of a shop, even if only minimally compensated, so long as they have insurance that covers me. Doing it with zero insurance coverage is too much exposure. Something goes wrong on the plane on that first post-maintenance flight, and all it takes is someone saying "Hey, yeah, I saw Jeff working on that plane too", and I get drawn into a legal battle with zero coverage.

I've actively participated in many owner-assist annuals on the plane we hold in an LLC. I know that increases liability exposure via the other LLC members, but I know and can accept that small risk. It is a whole different game when you're talking about working on a plane rented by people who could just be student pilots or Joe Anybody taking a discovery flight.
 
evapilotaz said:
I would want to be under the supervision of a mechanic. I want to learn more what's under the hood.
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Definitely find a way to do that by watching. You'll be a safer pilot when you understand how it is all put together, and you'll learn to spot potential problems during the preflight.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Doing it with zero insurance coverage is too much exposure.
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For the shop. Their problem.

That is, presuming the owner didn't take the airplane to you for an inspection or repair.

It is not necessary for you to be paid in order for the shop to be responsible.
 
MAKG1 said:
For the shop. Their problem.

That is, presuming the owner didn't take the airplane to you for an inspection or repair.

It is not necessary for you to be paid in order for the shop to be responsible.
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What would prevent the individual (non-employee) from being sued in addition to the shop? Nothing. Doesn't matter if they are successful in the suit, you'll be $$$ lighter just from the legal defense costs.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
To be clear, I would be willing to turn screws as an employee of a shop, even if only minimally compensated, so long as they have insurance that covers me. Doing it with zero insurance coverage is too much exposure. Something goes wrong on the plane on that first post-maintenance flight, and all it takes is someone saying "Hey, yeah, I saw Jeff working on that plane too", and I get drawn into a legal battle with zero coverage.

I've actively participated in many owner-assist annuals on the plane we hold in an LLC. I know that increases liability exposure via the other LLC members, but I know and can accept that small risk. It is a whole different game when you're talking about working on a plane rented by people who could just be student pilots or Joe Anybody taking a discovery flight.
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Unless you are signing the logs, you bear zero liability. Look up Respondeate Superior, it is one of the base rules of our tort liability system.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
What would prevent the individual (non-employee) from being sued in addition to the shop? Nothing. Doesn't matter if they are successful in the suit, you'll be $$$ lighter just from the legal defense costs.
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See above. The owner of the shop bears all liability, "Let the Master Answer"
 
Jeff Oslick said:
To be clear, I would be willing to turn screws as an employee of a shop, even if only minimally compensated, so long as they have insurance that covers me. Doing it with zero insurance coverage is too much exposure. Something goes wrong on the plane on that first post-maintenance flight, and all it takes is someone saying "Hey, yeah, I saw Jeff working on that plane too", and I get drawn into a legal battle with zero coverage.

I've actively participated in many owner-assist annuals on the plane we hold in an LLC. I know that increases liability exposure via the other LLC members, but I know and can accept that small risk. It is a whole different game when you're talking about working on a plane rented by people who could just be student pilots or Joe Anybody taking a discovery flight.
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I hear you Jeff. The way the screwed up legal system in this country works you don't have to be responsible for a problem to be sued you just have to be "in some way possibly responsible for the problem". And it is even worse if you have deep or even semi-deep pockets.

If an airplane crashes the owners of the airplane, or the insurance company, or the survivors, will cast a huge net out looking for people to sue.

Anyone named in the lawsuit will need to defend costing them thousands of dollars and tons of time. Even if they are 100% innocent it will still cost lots of money and lots of time.:redface:
 
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Jeff Oslick said:
That only applies if you are an employee of "the master".
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Negative, unless of course you came in the shop and committed an act of sabotage. If you have permission from the shop, they take the liability, no payment is required, your contractual compensation is education, same as any unpaid intern.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
What would prevent the individual (non-employee) from being sued in addition to the shop? Nothing. Doesn't matter if they are successful in the suit, you'll be $$$ lighter just from the legal defense costs.
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What would prevent the same airplane owner from suing you right now, with no relation to the shop or even any problem?
 
MAKG1 said:
What would prevent the same airplane owner from suing you right now, with no relation to the shop or even any problem?
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One case gets thrown out of court summarily, the other costs at least a few grand in legal fees and probably a week of my time before it gets thrown out. This is a headache that I just don't need in my life for the "experience" of turning a few screws. You can learn as much just by watching. Really want to turn screws? Take an A&P class at your local community college.
 
Henning said:
Negative, unless of course you came in the shop and committed an act of sabotage. If you have permission from the shop, they take the liability, no payment is required, your contractual compensation is education, same as any unpaid intern.
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Where is that "permission" documented? What does the shop's insurance policy say about having non-employees/non-owners work on planes?
 
evapilotaz said:
Geezz I think I will stay out of the shop unless it was my airplane. You people are scaring me of being sued.
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You shouldn't be scared of watching the A&P and learning; I would highly encourage it. I just wouldn't work on the plane.
 
I volunteer my free weekends at a warplane museum working on planes and have learned a lot. I am an IT guy but fairly mechanically minded so it seems to come pretty easy but there is always something new to learn.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
You can learn as much just by watching.
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Although I'm not going to comment on the liability aspect of the conversation, this statement in itself is ridiculous.

It's like saying I can learn just as much about riding a motorcycle by watching someone. Or math. Or sewing.

Actually doing something is the key to really learning about it, in any endeavor.
 
RussR said:
Although I'm not going to comment on the liability aspect of the conversation, this statement in itself is ridiculous.

It's like saying I can learn just as much about riding a motorcycle by watching someone. Or math. Or sewing.

Actually doing something is the key to really learning about it, in any endeavor.
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Depends, if you watch someone put the alternator nuts on a TSIO-360, or the forward center carburetor mount nut on an R-1340, you will definitely learn to swear...:rofl:
 
RussR said:
Although I'm not going to comment on the liability aspect of the conversation, this statement in itself is ridiculous.

It's like saying I can learn just as much about riding a motorcycle by watching someone. Or math. Or sewing.

Actually doing something is the key to really learning about it, in any endeavor.
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You learn by doing if your goal is to learn how to work on the airplane. If your goal is to learn how the airplane works and what to look for when inspecting it, watching and listening works just as well.
 
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