Rental etiquette

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ChrisRikli

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Chris
Today I decided to go up for a bit so I got online and reserved a plane for 11:00AM. There was a preceding reservation of plane and instructor from 9:00-11:00AM.

I get out there, plane isn't there yet. At about 15 after the plane rolls up, so I walk out. The student and instructor sat there for 10 minutes, likely doing a debriefing. I didn't want to be rude or intrude, but I wanted to get an XC in and I had to have the plane back by 1:00PM for the next pilot. So when the clock hit 11:30AM I asked the instructor if he minded me doing my external preflight, fuel sumps, oil, etc.

Finally at 11:35AM they get out of the plane, but the CFI acted a little put out with me.

So what's the etiquette here? From my perspective they kinda rude and inconsiderate, but I'm new to flying and renting so I may just not know the score.
 
They were rude and you were above and beyond patient. At 11:05 you would have been well within your rights to point out that you have the plane reserved and to nicely ask them to finish the debrief inside so that you could get your dispatch and be on your way. That the plane did not even come back until 15 minutes after the reserved time was rude in and of itself. Stuff does happen and they should have tried to call the FBO to let them know they were running late. But once on the ground they should have expedited their exit.
 
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Good question! I consider the CFI inconsiderate and is training the student to do likewise. If the plan can't come back for the next reservation, try to call someone- stuff does happen.
 
Short answer is that they had the plane booked until 11, and they should have done their darnedest to have it turned back in to the front desk a few minutes before that so that you could get the keys at 11. Admittedly, they may be running a little late, in which case they should call in to the front desk (presuming they have a radio at the desk) to let you know. Once on the ground, they should have egressed the plane and tied it down (or offered to leave it untied for you) immediately, and done their postflight elsewhere.
 
Veritas said:
So what's the etiquette here? From my perspective they kinda rude and inconsiderate, but I'm new to flying and renting so I may just not know the score.
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It was pretty rude (and the kind of thing that drives new pilots to think about buying their own!).

But I will toss out another possibility: one flight school I used to rent from had a convenient web scheduler. However, they would print out the day's schedule the night before, at closing time. Being the night owl I am, I would sometimes put something on the schedule after it was printed. So, it's possible they might not have known you were scheduled at 11:00 AM when they took off.
 
rpadula said:
It was pretty rude (and the kind of thing that drives new pilots to think about buying their own!).

But I will toss out another possibility: one flight school I used to rent from had a convenient web scheduler. However, they would print out the day's schedule the night before, at closing time. Being the night owl I am, I would sometimes put something on the schedule after it was printed. So, it's possible they might not have known you were scheduled at 11:00 AM when they took off.
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I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt, and that could account for the first half hour (way too patient!), but this....
11:30AM I asked the instructor if he minded me doing my external preflight, fuel sumps, oil, etc.

Finally at 11:35AM they get out of the plane, but the CFI acted a little put out with me.
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5 minutes after he KNEW there was someone else booked and had already been in the plane for a half hour? Nope. Just rude. Especially giving an attitude!
 
ScottM said:
They were rude and you were above and beyond patient. At 11:05 you would have been well within your rights to point out that you have the plane reserved and to nicely ask them to finish the debrief inside so that you could get your dispatch and be on your way. That the plane did not even come back until 15 minutes after the reserved time was rude in and of itself. Stuff does happen and they should have tried to call the FBO to let them know they were running late. But once on the ground they should have expedited their exit.
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+1

Of course there are understandable delays Wx etc but an apology should come with those delays.
 
Agree that it was rude and inconsiderate, especially when some schools charge you for no-shows or late arrivals. Worth a discussion with the FBO/flight school manager.
 
How about etiquette at the self-serve pumps, too? I had finished fueling, pushed back from the pump so I could start the engine and taxi away. Another aircraft comes in, pulls directly in front of me. I could have started the engine, destroyed their aircraft and bloodied both the CFI and the student.

Had they waited 30 seconds, I would have been out of there. The student was completely clueless. The CFI, on the other hand, was incredibly embarassed that he wasn't paying attention, either.

They understand neither taking turns nor waiting in line, both lessons learned in kindergarten.
 
Rude, as others have said.

But I've heard of worse. The place I used to rent (past tense), the new CFI disregards reservations made by pilots if there is a student who wants the plane and then of course pays the CFI. The renter who scheduled in advance is bumped. This has happened several times to a friend of mine.
 
rpadula said:
It was pretty rude (and the kind of thing that drives new pilots to think about buying their own!).

But I will toss out another possibility: one flight school I used to rent from had a convenient web scheduler. However, they would print out the day's schedule the night before, at closing time. Being the night owl I am, I would sometimes put something on the schedule after it was printed. So, it's possible they might not have known you were scheduled at 11:00 AM when they took off.
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No excuse. They knew when the time they had reserved ended.
 
Place I used to rent would never have tolerated that; you were supposed to have the plane back in time that it could be fueled and ready for the next renter's immediate use; typically, worked out OK if it was back at the ramp at the designated time, because the fuel vendor was very timely (big fuel customer), so you could be preflighting while they fueled.

Bottom line: they were exceptionally rude to you.
 
I've rented at some pretty busy FBOs. There are times where there is an open slot after the plane takes off, so the pilot or CFI may think they have some extra time on the back end. The problem starts when that slot fills up after they've already thought it was open. Maybe that happened, I don't know.

I've had flights bumped or canceled when the plane got back late and I didn't have enough time to get my flight in before the next reservation, it's no fun. All it takes is for one person to be late, and that can start a cascade that lasts all day on the schedule.
 
bluee said:
But I've heard of worse. The place I used to rent (past tense), the new CFI disregards reservations made by pilots if there is a student who wants the plane and then of course pays the CFI. The renter who scheduled in advance is bumped. This has happened several times to a friend of mine.
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If management allows this, find another place to rent (as it appears you did). But I would talk with management first, and give them the chance to fix the problem.
 
Ron Levy said:
If management allows this, find another place to rent (as it appears you did). But I would talk with management first, and give them the chance to fix the problem.
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Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.

This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
 
I've had my rental return to the airport 25 minutes after my time started, and then I had to refuel it. Even worse, my wife was with me. The CFI who had the plane with a student didn't really give a crap when I complained. Kind of soured me on renting.
 
Veritas said:
Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.

This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
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That's very good news.
 
Hehe I had the opposite thing happen on my return from 6Y9 a few years ago. I was flying at full rental power in the Archer to make it home in time for the next guy. I must have been at the airport for half an hour after his slot started with the next renter nowhere to be seen.
 
Veritas said:
Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.

This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
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Funny - didn't expect you to be talking about MPP. Clay has always provided me with good service and is a PoA member "taters".

Silverhawk on the other hand I have always been less than impressed with. I have called them on numerous occasions 30 minutes in advance asking them to pull an airplane out - only to get there and wait another 30 minutes for them to pull it out. They just don't seem to give a ****.
 
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Veritas said:
Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.
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Excellent.

Now, I wonder if he's going to take the other half of your bill out of that instructor's paycheck...

This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
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...and good for you for promoting a company that treats its customers properly.
 
Rental étiquette.....Oxymoron

(and I like how Marcia Clark pronounced it.......ox-IM-er-on) at OJ's trial
 
They could always bill the instructor or refuse to allow them to continue teaching in the aircraft.
 
Veritas said:
Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.
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I've said this many, many times.

The mark of good customer service isn't a lack of issues when dealing with the customer. That's an impossibility. The mark of good service is how management deals with problems when they occur.

This manager responded within minutes, promised to try and prevent future issues, and provided compensation for your trouble. This is textbook customer service, and if I were you, I'd trumpet the company as an example for others to utilize in the future with this attitude.
 
JeffDG said:
The mark of good customer service isn't a lack of issues when dealing with the customer. That's an impossibility. The mark of good service is how management deals with problems when they occur.
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Agree 100%. I run a non-aviation related business and I usually tell our new customers, "Look, we're going to make mistakes every now and then because it's just unavoidable. The difference between us and everyone else is that we'll admit it, fix it, and then work with you to square things up."
 
JeffDG said:
I've said this many, many times.

The mark of good customer service isn't a lack of issues when dealing with the customer. That's an impossibility. The mark of good service is how management deals with problems when they occur.

This manager responded within minutes, promised to try and prevent future issues, and provided compensation for your trouble. This is textbook customer service, and if I were you, I'd trumpet the company as an example for others to utilize in the future with this attitude.
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Exactly!!!

Veritas said:
Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.

This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
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Good on MPP! Clearly they are a business that appreciates their customers patronage. And good on you for promoting them.
 
Related kind of story: I had my plane, once upon a time, in a leaseback. I was taught to be, and appreciated it, when my instructor was meticulous about how the plane was cared for by students and himself alike. Especially since I had to foot the repairs in addition to scheduled MX on the plane...

It was amazing to me how at times rental planes (including mine) were left with empty food containers, papers, bottles, etc. trashed in the plane, items unstowed, the avionics left on, etc. etc. When that happened in my plane, I promptly went into the office, and if the instructor was there, was pretty clear about how I felt and perhaps my plane should no longer be available for that person to use for instruction.

I voiced the opinion that perhaps the way in which the plane was left reflected on the quality of the instruction given. Nobody is perfect, but that was beyond the pale.
 
Given that the instr is an independent, and that they burned in excess of 30 minutes of your time, that also cost the Flight Center 30 minutes+ of revenue. I don't imagine the FC was very understanding about that...

This scenario is about the rudest aspect of renting. And you were well within your rights to make comment to the Owner. It is great that he understood the situation and made appropriate concession to you for it.
 
Veritas said:
Agree 100%. I run a non-aviation related business and I usually tell our new customers, "Look, we're going to make mistakes every now and then because it's just unavoidable. The difference between us and everyone else is that we'll admit it, fix it, and then work with you to square things up."
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I wrote on here a while ago about my experience with my maintenance shop. I had put them put a new oil cooler and hoses in. I soon noticed oil on my windshield when I was flying, not a good feeling. Long story short the A&P had over tightened one of the 90degree hose connectors and cracked the brand new oil cooler. The shop apologized and replaced everything at their cost. Mistakes do happen and how you respond to them is important.

This thread has the details: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20506&
 
Veritas said:
<SNIP>
This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
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'Taters does try to take care of his customers.

jesse said:
Funny - didn't expect you to be talking about MPP. Clay has always provided me with good service and is a PoA member "taters".

Silverhawk on the other hand I have always been less than impressed with. I have called them on numerous occasions 30 minutes in advance asking them to pull an airplane out - only to get there and wait another 30 minutes for them to pull it out. They just don't seem to give a ****.
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Sometimes there are UNL hotties working the desk. But they do take a long time to get a plane out. Also they are always out of stock of the local charts and AFDs.
 
Veritas said:
Cap'n Ron, I took your advice and emailed the owner of the rental company. He responded within minutes, telling me that he would talk to the offending party and also promised to discount my flight time for the trouble, which he did...my bill was half off. You can't ask for much better service than that.

This was handled so well that I'd like to recommend that anyone flying at KLNK look up MPP Aviation (http://www.flympp.com) if you have a rental need. They take great care of their planes and, obviously, their customers.
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Thanks for sharing the information of the good service you received. Too often we all do the complaining and sometimes forget the praise where it is due.
 
Indeed. That's why I got on United's web site this evening and filled out the questionnaire about my flight from LAX to PIT this afternoon. The FA in F was outstanding and I wanted to make sure they knew that. So often we are quick to complain and slow to praise.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
'Taters does try to take care of his customers.

Sometimes there are UNL hotties working the desk. But they do take a long time to get a plane out. Also they are always out of stock of the local charts and AFDs.
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Seriously. I gave up on them for charts when I found out they don't have any TACs.
 
Veritas said:
Seriously. I gave up on them for charts when I found out they don't have any TACs.
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They pretty much never have anything in my experience. "We run out right away" guess it has never dawned on them to order more.
 
murphey said:
They understand neither taking turns nor waiting in line, both lessons learned in kindergarten.
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The problem is that they also teach schoolchildren how "special" they are these days. Unfortunately, some of them actually continue to believe it once they grow up.

-Rich
 
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