Rent Vs. Buy

[Ken Ibold]

Just a couple of observations:

1) Most personally owned airplanes are lucky to see 50 hours a year in the air. Lots of people buy expecting to fly 150 or 200 hours a year. And maybe they do for the first year or two. The novelty wears off, and the hours slowly slide downward.

2) Buying the airplane (and paying for the mx, hangar, insurance etc as people have mentioned), is only part of the equation if you plan to use the airplane to travel. You have to then include hotels, rental cars, restaurants, activities.

3) Depending on your profession, the TIME involved in flying can become an issue.

4) You are single now, but think long term. What if that future potential Mrs. Jdennis1989 is not as enamored of bouncing along through the hot Texas sky as she would be in an air conditioned Lexus on the highway below.

None of these are deal killers, by any means. But you need to go into aircraft ownership eyes wide open. My wife loved airplanes 1 and 2. She hated airplanes 3 and 4. I'd be lying if I said the spot on the spouse acceptance curve does not have a profound influence on the satisfaction of airplane ownership.

 

[Foxhole]

If the Mrs don't like the airplane she was the wrong one anyway..

 

[jdennis1989]

4) You are single now, but think long term. What if that future potential Mrs. Jdennis1989 is not as enamored of bouncing along through the hot Texas sky as she would be in an air conditioned Lexus on the highway below.

None of these are deal killers, by any means. But you need to go into aircraft ownership eyes wide open. My wife loved airplanes 1 and 2. She hated airplanes 3 and 4. I'd be lying if I said the spot on the spouse acceptance curve does not have a profound influence on the satisfaction of airplane ownership.

Lol I can tell you this much, if the future Mrs. wants a Lexus then she better make enough $$$ to buy that Lexus cause if it came down to that a plane wins out.

I really like the advice y'all have given me though. I'm starting to think I will just rent and keep going for my instrument after I get my PPL, and when a GOOD partnership presents itself then I'll bite.

 

[dell30rb]

I'm starting to think I will just rent and keep going for my instrument after I get my PPL, and when a GOOD partnership presents itself then I'll bite.

Do that

 

[jdennis1989]

Thank you for the info. For some reason I never gave thought to the Pearland area. Really just a short drive to Houston southwest. What's the rental rates look like if I joined that club? What kind of fleet are we talking.

At Houston Southwest, one of the flight schools on the field rents their Arrow. They used to have a Warrior too, but am unsure if they sold it. They also rent the LSA's they use as trainers.

http://www.successaviation.com/arsuccess/location.html

Pearland airport has a flight club, of which I'm a member. They've got 8 planes over there and getting one is not really an issue, even though they've got about 200 members. It's rather reasonable as well. Hourly wet rates are a little steep, but dues are only $22 bucks a month. That would probably make it worth a 45 mile drive for you...

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/

Finally, there is an LSA school also at Houston Southwest. I know one of the owners, he's a really nice guy. It's an LSA, but it's better than walking! They rent them as well.

http://www.houstonlsa.com/

If you're willing to deal with some tire kickers, as well as a few desperate folks who will ask you to let them fly your plane while making payments to you (yeah right), I would be surprised if you didn't find a suitable partner with a craigslist ad, or an ad on AOPA.

If I can answer any questions for you, feel free to PM me. I went through these decisions a couple years ago and did hours of research. When I rented the 235 from the Pearland flying club, I'd fly my 172 over, and pick up the plane. It worked, but wasn't ideal (obviously).

You've got options, but all options have tradeoffs.

 

[VanDy]

I didnt see much of a mention of mission? T-craft is about as economical as you can get, (in my opinion) for fair weather flying and just putting around. I flew 5 hours saturday and ran through about $100 of gas. pretty hard to beat at 90-95 mph.

 

[kujo806]

Do that

I think that is a good plan. I was in the same boat as you last fall. Recently got my PPL, and tired of flying the POS rental planes for significant hourly rates while being restricted on flying them anywhere for extended periods of time. All of a sudden I was in the right place at the right time, and someone contacted me about buying his share in an Arrow. It is way nicer than the local rental 172's and warriors, is available most of the time, and my up front cost was very low. In fact, this is a 1/9 share, but I'd say the plane is available 95% of the time (I haven't had an issue yet anyway and that is with 8 partners). Someday, I do hope to own my own plane, but at this point in my life, I just can't get away when I want to.

 

[retailguy]

Thank you for the info. For some reason I never gave thought to the Pearland area. Really just a short drive to Houston southwest. What's the rental rates look like if I joined that club? What kind of fleet are we talking.

They have a 150, 152, and a 172. Also a Cherokee 180, a Cherokee 235 and an Arrow. Finally, they have a Citabria. $75 initiation fee, dues are $22. a month.

You can find a better description of the fleet here:

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/fleet.html

Here's the latest newsletter that'll give you the current wet rates:

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/newsletter/2013/JUN13.pdf

If you sign up, let me know before hand. I don't know if there's a referral bonus or not, but if so, I want it.

 

[ryoung99]

A club is a great way to go, and the Bay Area Aero Club looks excellent. I learned to fly out of a club and loved the place. Then I moved and ended up in the rental market and virtually quit flying as I they did not have the same choice of planes and scheduling was a pain, until I finally bought my Tiger (which I think is the best bang for the buck bar none).

Good luck, but if I lived near Bay Area Aero I would join, even though I have a Tiger. Some nice flying options there.

 

[Foxhole]

They have a 150, 152, and a 172. Also a Cherokee 180, a Cherokee 235 and an Arrow. Finally, they have a Citabria. $75 initiation fee, dues are $22. a month.

You can find a better description of the fleet here:

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/fleet.html

Here's the latest newsletter that'll give you the current wet rates:

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/newsletter/2013/JUN13.pdf

If you sign up, let me know before hand. I don't know if there's a referral bonus or not, but if so, I want it.

That club looks really good. I wish we had one like that here.

 

[jdennis1989]

They have a 150, 152, and a 172. Also a Cherokee 180, a Cherokee 235 and an Arrow. Finally, they have a Citabria. $75 initiation fee, dues are $22. a month.

You can find a better description of the fleet here:

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/fleet.html

Here's the latest newsletter that'll give you the current wet rates:

http://www.bayareaaeroclub.org/newsletter/2013/JUN13.pdf

If you sign up, let me know before hand. I don't know if there's a referral bonus or not, but if so, I want it.

Once I get my PPL I will probably join this club. Looks like a good selection of planes at reasonable prices. Thanks!

 

[JHW]

I hate the concept that "renting is throwing money away". It isnt , you are paying for reduced financial risk and convenient use of someone else's assets. No one ever considers buying a car instead of renting when they go out of town for a week, those prices are pretty high too.

there is nothing "convenient" about renting

 

[jonnyjetprop]

there is nothing "convenient" about renting

Phone rings............Guys, the engine just quit and I landed in this field. Come get your plane.

I'd call that convenient.

Your A&P calls, the engine is making metal. Do you want to overhaul it or go with a reman?

I'd call that inconvenient at best. At worst?

Your A&P calls again. There's a spot of corrosion on the spar. Piper doesn't allow a repair. Do you want us to start looking for another wing?

Sure, I think every pilot thinks of owning his own plane. I know I do too. Renting is still a very viable option for those who can't afford or can't justify ownership.

 

[JHW]

Sure, I think every pilot thinks of owning his own plane. I know I do too. Renting is still a very viable option for those who can't afford or can't justify ownership.

yes, it is a viable option, but don't try to make it into something it isn't. Just last week we had one of the local club planes with the pilot flying while arguing over the radio with another club member who thought he had it reserved. Having your schedule dictated by the plans of other people is the antithesis of "convenient."

 

[ja_user]

there is nothing "convenient" about renting

Oh, the 177RG needs the gear rebuilt. I guess I will just take the arrow. See you in a few hours...

I didn't say scheduling was the convenience, but you are paying someone a rate to not deal with certain problems. In exchange, you typically get other problems.

To each their own, but lets not pretend there is absolutely no benefit to renting for some people.

 

[lbrehm02]

Hey I think I will fly to vegas tonight and stay the weekend. Oh I have to rent so I cannot since it is only a 4.5 hr flight (round trip, $400.00 with all costs 172) min on rental is 2 hrs/day (5 days=>$1000.00). OH yes they will not rent it to one person out of town that long! So I can jump into my $40,000.00 car for 700 miles round trip $180.00 for gas. OH if I convert car ownership like aircraft ownership to costs/mile while figuring in maintenance costs and use IRS figures of $.52/mile then my auto expense is $365.00 for this trip and is 11 hrs round trip. Flying $400, Driving $365 (saved $35.00 but spent 7hrs of my time more driving horrible roads with every other driver) Which is worth more in 10 years plane or auto? Which is more memorable? And really which is more fun, and for a pilot like me so much relaxation better than therapy it is a PLANE which is owned!!!

 

[alfadog]

there is nothing "convenient" about renting

Owning is very convenient indeed if you can comfortably afford a nice airplane and a nice hangar to keep it and top-notch maintenance. And I know that some on this board can afford that. But for those that cannot, ownership can be very inconvenient indeed and the little headaches of renting will pale in comparison.

The biggest convenience is having access to an airplane that you can afford to fly.

For many, that means renting. For me, it means going to A&P school

Oh, and renting.

 

[jpower]

there is nothing "convenient" about renting

Sure there is. When something breaks, the magical fairy fixes it.

 

[JHW]

Sure there is. When something breaks, the magical fairy fixes it.

I prefer to fix it myself. Tinkering with my planes and trying to keep them as close to perfect as possible is my primary hobby. You can't tinker with a rental and you can't fix something that isn't broken but isn't as good as it can be.

 

[weilke]

Sure there is. When something breaks, the magical fairy fixes it.

You will notice that on a plane you own, the odds of walking up to the plane and finding something broken that you didn't know about are near zero. With your own plane, if you notice on a sunday flight that something is not right, it'll be fixed by the next weekend. With the rental plane, you will allways run into the problems somebody else caused but failed to mention to the aircrafts owner 'oh that dead radio, that was broken when I picked up the plane.....' .

I find that co-ownership strikes the right balance. It allows me access to a plane that I wouldn't want to pay for by myself yet I have enough availability to suit my family travel needs. Everyone treats the plane as 'his stuff' and there is no incentive to ignore issues that may crop up here and there.

 

[numl0ck]

I'm starting to think I will just rent and keep going for my instrument after I get my PPL, and when a GOOD partnership presents itself then I'll bite.

Do that

I think that is a good plan.

Add me to the list of this plan. I had a group of guys approach me to become the 4th in their partnership.

I ran the numbers and it was cheaper than renting by far (for my mission) and I haven't looked back. I haven't had a scheduling conflict yet, the plane sits in the hanger 90% of the time, and I fly it twice as much as the other three combind.

Make friends at the airport, you never know what opportunities will show up.

 

[wabower]

I'm the poster-boy for shared ownership, having owned 20+ planes in such arrangements for 39 years, including one I still own that dates back to 1982.

I can't imagine a better way to do it. Even better is that all the co-owners remain good friends.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

+1

I'm the poster-boy for shared ownership, having owned 20+ planes in such arrangements for 39 years, including one I still own that dates back to 1982.

I can't imagine a better way to do it. Even better is that all the co-owners remain good friends.

 

[oldShar]

With the rental plane, you will always run into the problems somebody else caused but failed to mention to the aircrafts owner 'oh that dead radio, that was broken when I picked up the plane.....' .

And sometimes, you run into problems that you already squawked but never got fixed --- (not high enough on the priority list to justify the expenditure)
BTDT more often than I am comfortable with

[ one MAJOR exception to the non-fixed problem -- squawk the Hobbs and it gets fixed tout de suite ]

 

[frfly172]

Being retired I prefer to own.I like to have the airplane available when I want it with no hourly minimum for week end trips.I fly between 130 and 170 hrs a year.Works for me.However I did trade my twin for a fuel efficient single.good luck

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

The cheapest way to fly or get your PPL for that matter is to join a flying club or partnership in a 172 or Cherokee type aircraft.

If cost is the only factor then you should look all over all airports within driving range for a club or partnership.

I don't like the politics in clubs and I never thought to check for partnerships so I went out and bought a trainer type aircraft.

My budget was $20k.

Living in the midwest it is very cost effective to own an airplane. I could have free tie down or $120 hangar rent; insurance for $20k is about $595 per year; in my state their are not taxes either sales tax nor property tax on classic aircraft over 30 years old.

So my only costs were gas, maintenance and hangar rent.

I flew about 200 hours per year my first three years and I would never have been able to do that with a club or rental as I pretty much needed the plane anytime the tickle hit me. Owning a plane you seldom wait for it down for inspections or maintenance or scheduled with others.

I bought my plane for $20k, spent $10 per hour total on annual inspections and all other maintenance and improvements and gas. That was it. I used mogas stc so I saved about half the cost of fuel from $6 per gallon to $3.29 per gallon times 7-8 gph. Oil changes every 100 hrs cost $3.27 qt for 6 quarts, $12.50 for filter and $10 for oil analysis kit. So call it $40 or so.

I bought the plane with 2000 hrs on the engine or at TBO and I sold it with 3400 hrs on it and I sold it for $15k so it cost me $5k to own it about 8 years. Not bad, I have never gotten such a good deal on any car or boat or motor cycle I have ever owned so it was quite affordable.

other ways to save when you own an airplane, I traded flight time for CFI. For every 3 hrs of CFI time I let him borrow the plane 1 hr dry with him paying his own gas. I've also traded out mechanical time for flight time. After I bought my 2nd airplane I let a few guys use the Cherokee and they paid the monthly hangar and I had them buy insurance to cover if they wrecked it and they paid the annual maintenance as well. So it cost me nothing to own the airplane the last few years before I sold it.

Ownership gives you options.

I have taken the plane on 10, 15 and even 20 day vacations without having to answer to a club or renter. I have flown it to both coasts, Key West and could take it to Grand Cayman Islands or Bahamas if I so choose to.

In todays market $20k buys a heck of a lot of airplane. If I were doing it today, from your spot, I would be looking for a 180 Arrow with almost run out engine and do the same thing. Fly it and improve it each step of the way. I would buy it with a fresh annual so it is airworthy and then go get a bunch of flying time.

Look into taking Savvy Aviator Maintenance seminars to help you control your maintenance costs and separate the myth from truth about aviation maintenance.