Reklaw

Lowflynjack

Lowflynjack

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Jack Fleetwood
It's time for Reklaw. 31st. Annual Flying M Ranch Fly-In and Campout, and 23rd Annual Cub Migration Oct. 21-23, 2016

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This is the largest fly-in in Texas. It seem to average between 500 and 600 planes. This weekend is supposed to be perfect with temps in the 70's and last year's event was pretty much washed out, so I would expect to break a record this weekend.

My advice, arrive early, stay late. I like to get in early on Friday morning and leave Sunday morning. The pattern gets hectic. We've seen 10-12 planes on final before! There are a lot of low passes too, so for me, it's fun to be on the ground taking photos.

Hope to see you there!
 
Looking forward to it! I had never heard of it until last week, but unexpectedly found myself in Texas this week. So...
 
Reklaw can be fun. But keep your head on a swivel both in air and ground. Lots of stories in the past about pilots and people who eschew safe operations for a chance to impress others.
 
Unless they've come up with some arrival/departure procedures, and added a temporary control tower, be very, very careful, guys.

We went two years ago (last year was canceled), and it was an absolute melee. 500 planes all seemed to arrive at once, and pesky little things like "patterns", "procedures", and "rules" were completely ignored. We had planes doing low approaches, 3 abreast, as we were on short final, and the plane before us went off the end and into the pond. In one 10 minute span we witnessed more close calls and violations than we had seen in 20 previous years of flying into airports all over America. I have never felt so unsafe as I have there, both in the air and on the ground.

I asked Mary if she wanted to go back this year. Her response: "No effing way!" (And remember, this is coming from a woman who has flown into Oshkosh as PIC many, many times...)

All they need are a few procedures, and a temporary control tower (like we had at the Iowa City Airport fly-in for many years) and all of this could be easily sorted out. Maybe someone can comment as to whether this has been addressed?
 
And yet we get 500+ planes and have never had any accidents caused by other planes. It does get hectic, but most of us get there early and stay on the ground to watch the show. It's not for everyone.
 
Lowflynjack said:
And yet we get 500+ planes and have never had any accidents caused by other planes. It does get hectic, but most of us get there early and stay on the ground to watch the show. It's not for everyone.
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When it comes to flying, I don't rely on luck.

This is a simple problem to address. Most large fly-ins (and 500 planes is now a large fly-in, sad to say) make use of a temporary tower and a few simple published procedures.

Having everyone on the same sheet of music makes for beautiful harmony... :)
 
If they did all the things your suggesting it wouldn't be Reklaw
 
I'm with Jay on this one; I've been twice, 2008 and 09, and that was enough for me. It's a cool fly-in, but it's just so big with so much traffic and yet absolutely no "ATC" type organization... to me it's just dumb luck that there haven't been any collisions there, either mid-air or on the ground.

It's really nice setting and facility with lots of cool/unusual planes to look at, people to hang with and talk to, but the traffic pattern can be a mix of insanity sprinkled with unbridled stupidity. Cessnas, Cubs and Ercoupes(!) making low pass after low pass; really, a low pass in an Ercoupe? Who cares! The AN-2 making low passes with smoke on, fogging things up... really? It was so bad with the low pass crowd clogging things up that arrivals and departures couldn't happen, with a long line waiting to take off. Then, throw in the mix of people walking across the runway at inopportune times... ugh.

If you're gonna go, take Jack's advice, get there early, like just after sunrise early. By 0900, the madness has commenced.
 
I agree it could be better, but it's their event and we enjoy it. I don't like people walking across the runway, but it's not my place. It does get interesting at times.

To be fair Jay, I don't rely on luck either. I fly a proper pattern and keep my eyes open. I also choose not to get in the air during the middle of the day on Friday or Saturday when a lot of planes are coming in. I choose not to camp by the runway. Just choices we make as pilots. Just because you don't think it's safe doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree, and it doesn't mean I'm relying on luck.

As far as having a tower, they tried that at least once. It didn't help much as the tower can't see very far out due to the tall pine trees. The biggest problem getting in there is finding the runway.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I agree it could be better, but it's their event and we enjoy it. I don't like people walking across the runway, but it's not my place. It does get interesting at times.

To be fair Jay, I don't rely on luck either. I fly a proper pattern and keep my eyes open. I also choose not to get in the air during the middle of the day on Friday or Saturday when a lot of planes are coming in. I choose not to camp by the runway. Just choices we make as pilots. Just because you don't think it's safe doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree, and it doesn't mean I'm relying on luck.

As far as having a tower, they tried that at least once. It didn't help much as the tower can't see very far out due to the tall pine trees. The biggest problem getting in there is finding the runway.
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I would LOVE to go to Reklaw again. The people, the planes, the setting, all are perfect. We had a great time, BUT...

Unfortunately, despite flying into Oshkosh, Sun N Fun, and dozens of other fly-ins many times, this one exceeds my pucker factor by a large margin. Take that for what it's worth. Obviously, since you choose not to fly during the busiest part of the fly-in you are avoiding most of the airborne trouble. Of course, you are also choosing not to participate in the fly-in when everyone else is flying in, so it sounds to me like you've also decided to avoid the worst of the event. I respect that.

Trouble is, this is the only fly-in event I've ever attended where I did not even feel safe on the ground. There were several times, as we strolled the lovely grounds, where we quite literally thought we were going to see metal parts raining down on us from above, or careening into us from below. There was simply no way to relax during our 4 hours on the ground. And, of course, having to abort our departure because of people wandering onto the runway was the icing on the cake.

I can see how a temporary tower would be less than optimal, thanks to the tall trees, but something has to be done, IMHO. It is only pure, dumb luck that has prevented a major accident. As I said, I saw more close calls there than I've seen in over two decades of flying all over the U.S.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I can see how a temporary tower would be less than optimal, thanks to the tall trees, but something has to be done, IMHO. It is only pure, dumb luck that has prevented a major accident. As I said, I saw more close calls there than I've seen in over two decades of flying all over the U.S.
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I understand your opinion. In my opinion, some things could be changed, but I don't think it's luck that's prevented an accident. I think it's pilots flying a standard pattern and keeping their heads on a swivel. Either way, we'll have a good time and I hope you're wrong about an accident waiting to happen. I can tell you I've been flying a long time and I've been to many fly-ins in Texas, Oklahoma, and Iowa with 400+ airplanes. Only once, have I ever seen a tower and it was a miserable failure... at Reklaw. Some people like to go on trips, I like going to fly-ins! As someone stated before, change too much and it's not Reklaw!

Oh, BTW, come out to Critter's Lodge in two weeks. You'll find a very similar fly-in to Reklaw, with maybe only 100 planes, very fly fly-bys, and a very peaceful good time! Kind of an anti-Reklaw!
 
172andyou said:
I know someone who was killed while flying a proper pattern by someone who wasn't.
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That can happen anywhere. Hasn't happened at Reklaw.

I almost got his by a Bonanza at an airshow when the Airboss cleared me for takeoff on 18. The Bonanza was on 36, where she couldn't see them, and thought the clearance was for them. Had I not seen them, it would have been bad as they never got off of runway heading.
 
First time I went to REKLAW I saw what a goatrope the arrival could be with a dozen aircraft converging on the 45 from every direction. Subsequent times I arrived early on Friday to avoid the mass gaggles.
 
172andyou said:
It's almost as if the solution isn't right there in the name of the thing. :)
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lol!

Unfortunately, unlike most of Texas, Reklaw is built in an area with very tall pine trees. Like, 75 feet tall? The strip is literally a slit cut in the forest.

A temporary FAA control tower is usually a flatbed trailer they drag in for the event. It would be really tough to imagine them building something tall enough to work.
 
Witmo said:
First time I went to REKLAW I saw what a goatrope the arrival could be with a dozen aircraft converging on the 45 from every direction. Subsequent times I arrived early on Friday to avoid the mass gaggles.
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We had just installed our EFIS with ADS-B traffic, back when we attended Reklaw two years ago. It was quite remarkable to see a tiny grass strip, literally in the middle of nowhere (actually a bit past the edge of nowhere) absolutely covered with hundreds of moving targets, all moving randomly.

Sure, you'll see that many planes moving at OSH and SNF, but there they have arrival procedures so the pattern on your screen is orderly and discernible. At Reklaw you have hundreds of aircraft moving randomly in all directions, so the effect on the screen is a glob of moving ants.

An aside: That was the first (and, thus far, only) time that I found ADS-B traffic to be annoying, as the density of the moving targets obscured the map to the point where no ground detail was viewable, even when zoomed in.
 
A possible solution for a "tower' at Reklaw: combine VR goggles with a drone hovering just above the trees.
Can you imagine seeing like that, twisting your head to follow traffic?
Heck, pipe in radar data and ID objects on screen (in the VR goggles).
Do we have any tinkerers here who would tackle this project for fun? :)
 
Jay Honeck said:
A temporary FAA control tower is usually a flatbed trailer they drag in for the event.
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Now you said the F word... I can assure you they will not allow the FAA out there!

172andyou said:
You are correct. So forget it, we shouldn't do anything to make things safer.
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I didn't say anything about not making it safer, but it's not my choice and it's not yours. Your only choice is not to attend, which makes it safer by having one less airplane I guess.

You can only control so much. In this case, it's a private event and a private field open to pilots. You can't tell a landowner what they need to do. You can make suggestions, like I'm sure plenty of people do, but they like the way they have it now. If you're not comfortable, you don't go. When you have an event that makes you money, and people don't like the way it's setup, they stop going. If enough people decided not to go, it would have an impact on them financially and they would either change or go away.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I didn't say anything about not making it safer
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Yes, you did. When you dismissively rejected the notion of a control tower you proposed keeping things less safe.

Lowflynjack said:
You can only control so much. In this case, it's a private event and a private field open to pilots. You can't tell a landowner what they need to do. You can make suggestions, like I'm sure plenty of people do, but they like the way they have it now.
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And that is their right. But you confused their rights with how safe things are.

1) It is their right to not have a tower and invite 500-1000 of their closest friends to participate in what has been described as a pretty wild west situation.

2) It is clearly true that standard procedures and a control tower being in place and followed makes thing safer.

Those two facts can both be true.
 
BigBadLou said:
A possible solution for a "tower' at Reklaw: combine VR goggles with a drone hovering just above the trees.
Can you imagine seeing like that, twisting your head to follow traffic?
Heck, pipe in radar data and ID objects on screen (in the VR goggles).
Do we have any tinkerers here who would tackle this project for fun? :)
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The question is, "Do we have any controllers out there that would tackle this project just for fun?"

<------ that one wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. :nonod:
 
Lowflynjack said:
Now you said the F word... I can assure you they will not allow the FAA out there!
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lol For sure.

The reason many fly-ins want a temporary FAA control tower is because its presence removes them from or at least minimizes their liability in the event of a mishap.

That has been changing, over the last 20 years, just like everything else in our society. We now live in a world where everyone is encouraged to sue everyone involved in every accident, so the Feds are less eager to participate.

I know the annual fly-in up in Iowa City no longer has a temporary control tower, partially due to the Feds not wanting the liability, and partially due to fly-in attendance dropping below whatever threshold they use for determining eligibility.
 
Timbeck2 said:
The question is, "Do we have any controllers out there that would tackle this project just for fun?"

<------ that one wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. :nonod:
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Also a fair point.

As someone with experience: What would it take before you would be willing to work the event?
 
Jay Honeck said:
I know the annual fly-in up in Iowa City no longer has a temporary control tower, partially due to the Feds not wanting the liability, and partially due to fly-in attendance dropping below whatever threshold they use for determining eligibility.
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What is that threshold?
 
172andyou said:
Also a fair point.

As someone with experience: What would it take before you would be willing to work the event?
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Free room and board at an air-conditioned place, meals, and a guarantee that I won't be held responsible for accidents that are out of my control. I'd do it for fun but it would have to be organized with a set of procedures outlining arrivals and departures with specific reporting points.

No controller wants to untangle a situation where aircraft are coming at them from all directions with no way to observe them (tall trees were mentioned) and people stepping all over each other on the radio.
 
172andyou said:
Yes, you did. When you dismissively rejected the notion of a control tower you proposed keeping things less safe.

And that is their right. But you confused their rights with how safe things are.

1) It is their right to not have a tower and invite 500-1000 of their closest friends to participate in what has been described as a pretty wild west situation.

2) It is clearly true that standard procedures and a control tower being in place and followed makes thing safer.

Those two facts can both be true.
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You can interpret it any way you want, but you said, "I know someone who was killed while flying a proper pattern by someone who wasn't.", I responded to your comment, "That can happen anywhere. Hasn't happened at Reklaw." I'm not sure how you say I dismissively rejected the notion of a control tower. A tower might help, but they don't want it. Not under my control and they don't want my opinion or yours. I did say I don't think it would help much as visibility from the tower would be limited. If they put one in would I still go? Yes.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Free room and board at an air-conditioned place, meals, and a guarantee that I won't be held responsible for accidents that are out of my control. I'd do it for fun but it would have to be organized with a set of procedures outlining arrivals and departures with specific reporting points.

No controller wants to untangle a situation where aircraft are coming at them from all directions with no way to observe them (tall trees were mentioned) and people stepping all over each other on the radio.
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But as in anything, there is no guarantee you won't be held responsible. The owner can guarantee this, make the pilots agree to this before flying in, and both of them can still sue you.

This has been an interesting discussion, but it really comes down to what I've been saying. They don't want the FAA there and they don't want the liability of having a makeshift tower not manned by the FAA. It is a crazy event and it's not for everyone, but I think most people I see there are regulars, so I guess we're okay with it as is! If you're up for it, please come join us. Get there early, get out your chair and have a good time sitting by the runway watching the chaos that sometimes ensues. If it's not for you, that's okay too. We'll see you at another one.
 
There is a LOT more to it than just calling up the FAA and saying, "hey guys, we are having a fly-in at Reclaw and are wondering if you guys could set up a temporary control tower."

It would take years.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Free room and board at an air-conditioned place, meals, and a guarantee that I won't be held responsible for accidents that are out of my control. I'd do it for fun but it would have to be organized with a set of procedures outlining arrivals and departures with specific reporting points.

No controller wants to untangle a situation where aircraft are coming at them from all directions with no way to observe them (tall trees were mentioned) and people stepping all over each other on the radio.
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Exactly.

I'm baffled as to why Reklaw doesn't develop a standard approach procedure for each runway. It isn't difficult -- just pick a point on the ground 15 miles out where everyone gets in line and follows the "x" heading (whatever it may be) to the field. Or pick a road, if there is one.

Publish the GPS points and procedure on their website. OSH an SNF make this work like a charm.

Sure, you'll have the usual folks who cannot follow instructions, but most will comply. Once everyone is in trail, entry into the pattern becomes more orderly, and everyone knows where to look and how to behave.

I presume there is some logic to them not wanting to do this?
 
Hello everyone, newbie to the forum . I have only been one year and it was crazy, I am a student pilot , so I will probably just drive !!!
 
Jay Honeck said:
I presume there is some logic to them not wanting to do this?
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Jay, honestly I don't everyone looks at it as it's as dangerous as you do. They do ask you to fly a standard left-hand pattern. I've heard pilots talk about how hectic it is, and I've heard a few say they'll never go there again, but I think the majority enjoy it and don't want it to change.

All air traffic must enter / use left hand pattern, including fly-bys and foto flights. Monitor 122.9 for traffic. Remember some aircraft may not have radios, so stay alert!
 
Its private right? No retribution to people who can't or won't behave like a responsible pilot other than, "you can't come back here again."

Flying is like driving in a lot of ways when you have to depend on another pilot to fly a pattern at an uncontrolled airport. They don't fly like we do (cause we're all perfect right?) and its frustrating. I flew into Casa Grande the other day and it was a zoo. I was 3 miles out coming in from the South and according to what I'd heard on unicom, I had planned on dropping down to pattern altitude from over the field and enter the downwind following a Cessna 172 that was about to turn base. Then I noticed another 172 below me and to my right 4 o'clock that hadn't announced and was already at pattern altitude coming in from the East. It was a high wing/low wing situation (I fly a Cherokee and was lucky I looked right) so I turned right in order to follow that guy and he finally announced when he was midfield downwind of his intentions of a touch and go. When he took it out to about a 4 mile base, I keyed up and said, "Cessna (whatever he called himself) are you planning on turning base any time soon because Cherokee six zero uniform is STILL behind you?"

We all took the same tests and instruction on how to enter a pattern at an uncontrolled airfield. People seem to just throw that training out the window and cowboy up. At an uncontrolled airfield, there is no retribution other than to follow an offender into parking and kick his ass.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I flew into Casa Grande the other day and it was a zoo.
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That's funny, I flew a plane back from Arizona a few months ago and as I passed Casa Grande I flipped to their frequency... I agree it was a zoo!! Not only because of the traffic, but it sounded like a school was using it for training and had their own communication going. "Cessna XXX is holding at 5K." "Cessna YYY is descending from 4K to 3K and holding there, 4K is now free." "Cessna XXX is now descending to 4K." They had at least 5 planes in the area talking this way, not to mention two or three in the pattern doing touch-n-goes. I was glad I was just flying by and not trying to get in there!
 
Timbeck2 said:
Its private right? No retribution to people who can't or won't behave like a responsible pilot other than, "you can't come back here again."

Flying is like driving in a lot of ways when you have to depend on another pilot to fly a pattern at an uncontrolled airport. They don't fly like we do (cause we're all perfect right?) and its frustrating. I flew into Casa Grande the other day and it was a zoo. I was 3 miles out coming in from the South and according to what I'd heard on unicom, I had planned on dropping down to pattern altitude from over the field and enter the downwind following a Cessna 172 that was about to turn base. Then I noticed another 172 below me and to my right 4 o'clock that hadn't announced and was already at pattern altitude coming in from the East. It was a high wing/low wing situation (I fly a Cherokee and was lucky I looked right) so I turned right in order to follow that guy and he finally announced when he was midfield downwind of his intentions of a touch and go. When he took it out to about a 4 mile base, I keyed up and said, "Cessna (whatever he called himself) are you planning on turning base any time soon because Cherokee six zero uniform is STILL behind you?"

We all took the same tests and instruction on how to enter a pattern at an uncontrolled airfield. People seem to just throw that training out the window and cowboy up. At an uncontrolled airfield, there is no retribution other than to follow an offender into parking and kick his ass.
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! I'd love to see a good fight between some of the old curmudgeons on here. Maybe it was a student from the Korean Air Force (Westwind).
 
CC268 said:
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! I'd love to see a good fight between some of the old curmudgeons on here. Maybe it was a student from the Korean Air Force (Westwind).
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Come to Reklaw, maybe there will be a fight. New Motto: If you don't die flying in, or get killed by an airplane falling from the sky, maybe you'll get your ass kicked! Although there's no internet there, so I'm not sure how the guys will get behind their keyboards to fight! :)
 
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