Region 10 Soaring Contest - Llano, TX

tonycondon

tonycondon

Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
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Tony
Just starting a thread as a placeholder, I'm signed up to fly the Region 10 contest in Llano, TX. Practice days are August 14 & 15 and the contest runs the 16-20. I'm hoping to do some painting on the glider and riveting on the trailer between now and then, if it ever cools down enough to shoot paint.

I'm really looking forward to it. The contest is set up with speed tasks. Typically the taskes will require you to fly from one turnpoint to the next etc and back home. However for the Sports class (handicapped) in which I'll be competing a cylinder is established around each turnpoint of a specified radius. It is up to you to decide how far into each cylinder you want to go. There is also a minimum scored time declared before the task. Your speed is calculated as your handicapped distance divided by either the actual time on course or the minimum time, whichever is greater. Fastest gets 1000 points for the day and everyone else falls into line as a proportion of the fastest speed.

I'll be happy if I can make it around the course each day. Pete keeps reminding me that there is a bonus if you can actually land at an airport instead of a field somewhere so I'll have to keep that in mind :)
 
Tone, Llano is very near Fredericksburg, so if I am down that way, would love to feed you dinner if time permits.
 
Let me know Spike. I'll be driving down on the 13th, back on the 21st. right now there are scheduled evening social events monday, thursday, friday, and saturday
 
last night i did the major task of painting contest numbers on the glider. Letters, in this case, "YYY" is my chosen callsign for 373Y. Tonight is packing, hit the road in the morning.

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yea it is permanent. there is a reservation system for contest #'s that establishes priority. In my case YYY is already taken but the guy who has it hasn't flown a contest since the SSA went to keeping track of such things online. So as long as I don't show up at the same contest as that guy I'm good.

Leahs N4653T will be TTT. There is already a guy at our club who uses 3T so that is why she decided to go for TTT, and then I logically went with YYY.
 
Have fun Tony, I think you will really enjoy the contest.

It is a lot like badge flying but you get to do it with a bunch of other gliders and they usually try to make the task something that is acheivable based on the weather.

Best Goal is just make it around the course. I have been having trouble with that this year. I think I have set a personal record with 3 landouts this season in the HP16T. Two at airports and one at a feild.
I have not had 3 landouts in a season since I sold my 1-26 over 10 years ago.

Have Fun

Brian
 

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nice looking field Brian! with fields like that who needs runways.

i had 3 landouts in my first three flights in the Cherokee this year...I think I'm at 4 this year after one in Dalhart, TX during the camp last month. Also landed away at a few airports.

Yes my goal for the week is to finish one day.

Saw you had some good flights at Mackay!
 
I've always had a question about glider flying, and balloon for that matter, that maybe you guys can answer. Why is landing in some farmers field without permission, trespassing really, an acceptable means to an end of any given flight because you ran out of lift? Sure, you offer to pay for any damage that may occur and most don't appear to really care or make too big a deal of it, but how many of those same guys would actually grant you permission to do such if asked first and given the opportunity to say no? To me it seems incredibly irresponsible to decide you'll make use of somebody else's property without their prior permission. If a guy took off in a powered airplane with low fuel hoping to get a good tailwind to make his destination and had to put it down in a field because he didn't get the favorable tailwind everybody, including me, would call that guy an idiot with poor planning and decision making skills. Isn't the powered guy hoping for a tailwind and the glider guy hoping for lift the same thing? I fail to see how anybody could make a reasonable argument for using another man's land without his prior permission.
 
from a legal standpoint we are covered under the same "necessity" laws that allow a boat to use an port in a storm. That does not in any way absolve us from any liability for damages but by definition it is not trespassing. Interestingly our own Lance Flynn wrote a letter to Soaring magazine about this back in the early 80's which inspired an article on the subject.

From a personal moral standpoint, you decide what you are comfortable with and fly accordingly. I'm obviously willing to take my chances on having to pay for damages and deal with an angry farmer. Many glider pilots are not. Those pilots usually just fly near the local airport or fly in a manner that keeps them within glide of an airport at all times.

Of course airports are not always the safest option...

If it makes you feel any better the first time I read about gliders in the Des Moines Register i felt the same way as you. it sounded insane. 3 years later the guy in that article was teaching me to fly gliders.

Also, if you only use my stories here as a reference you'll get the impression that gliders land out all the time. In truth I land out more than any other glider pilot I know. Most gliders are much higher performance than mine and their pilots are better than me and they can at least make it to an airport or back to the home field at the end of the day.
 
pilot117 said:
I've always had a question about glider flying, and balloon for that matter, that maybe you guys can answer. Why is landing in some farmers field without permission, trespassing really, an acceptable means to an end of any given flight because you ran out of lift? Sure, you offer to pay for any damage that may occur and most don't appear to really care or make too big a deal of it, but how many of those same guys would actually grant you permission to do such if asked first and given the opportunity to say no? To me it seems incredibly irresponsible to decide you'll make use of somebody else's property without their prior permission. If a guy took off in a powered airplane with low fuel hoping to get a good tailwind to make his destination and had to put it down in a field because he didn't get the favorable tailwind everybody, including me, would call that guy an idiot with poor planning and decision making skills. Isn't the powered guy hoping for a tailwind and the glider guy hoping for lift the same thing? I fail to see how anybody could make a reasonable argument for using another man's land without his prior permission.
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Note sure I have a good answer for your question. I have been on both sides of the fence having grown up on a farm and currently flying sailplanes. However since I have always been interested in flying I would have thought it very cool to have glider land in one of our fields. And 90% of the time I find this to be case with most farmers.

Perhaps part of this is that farmers tend to be less risk adverse the many other people, and as a result understand pilot taking a chance of crossing from one airport to the other with the understanding it might not work. My father always said he had no reason to go to Las Vegas, He had just put $10,000 worth of fertlizer out on the feild, hoping it would pay off.

It does helps that we tend to pick fields that don't damage crops, since most fields that would damage a crop would also damage the aircraft. We also tend to land near the edge of the feild, since that makes retreiving the glider much easier.

Balloons are probably the best example, in that what would you propose they do differently? About the only option would to be fly only while tethered to the ground.

Gliders are similar in that the only other option is to remain tethered (so to speak) to airports.

Gliders are generally expensive machines and there is some risk when landing in fields and we as pilots would much rather land at an airport. In fact in contest flying we offer bonus points to pilots for landing at airports.

The Historical Aspect is probably the best guide to this in that before WWII there were so few airports that, landing in a feild was really the only option. And in some places such as Alaska, landing at an airport still is often a luxury. As more airports were developed the less this was required, to the point that it is almost unheard of in the continental US to not land at an airport in power aircraft. However we now seem to be headed to other way to having less airports.

While off feild landings in glider make great stories and most glider pilots will do it occasionally it really doesn't happen all that often. In your fuel example it is more like being surrounding by thunder storms and running out of fuel rather than landing in a perfectly good pasture to wait it out.
In the past 12 years of flying my current glider I have landed my glider in a feild 4 times. They were all with 150 feet of the edge of the feild with zero damage to any crops. We seldom take off with the intension of landing in a feild, we just all know it is an option to provide the safest outcome the flight without having to tether ourselves to within gliding range of an airfield.

Like I said, not really an answer, more just random thoughts on the subject.

Brian
 
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oh and by the way i would hazard a guess that at least 90% of the farmers i've talked to would've given me permission if i had the chance to ask before hand. maybe more. I've never had an unpleasant encounter. Shoot a lot of the time I never even get to meet the farmer. i always wonder if they'll find the tracks in the field and wonder wtf was going on.
 
pilot117 said:
Isn't the powered guy hoping for a tailwind and the glider guy hoping for lift the same thing?
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Technically, merely hoping for lift is as irresponsible as merely hoping for a tailwind.

And merely hoping that the engine will not quit (at any moment) is pretty irresponsible, too. Sure, power pilots are expected to stay within gliding distance of at least a suitable landing area (if not a runway)... but what if it's private property, and no prior permission is given? And what about unexpected weather changes? Pilots often have to land off-airport due to poor vis, etc, even if they were scrupulous in gathering wx data before the flight.

The first answer that comes to mind is "But that would be an emergency, unlikely to be anticipated!" That is true. But landing out in a glider is similar to an off-airport landing in that despite good pre-flight weather info and skill at seeking out lift, one may get an unpleasant surprise that makes it impossible to continue to the intended destination.

So in short, a glider pilot preparing to possibly land out is no more irresponsible than a power pilot preparing to possibly land out because of a malfunction or unforecast bad weather.

But a power pilot preparing to land out because they know they don't have enough fuel to get where they want to go without a tailwind (and they don't bother with any alternate plan) is very irresponsible indeed.
 
I could write a long post, but I won't because I'm om my iPad and typing's a pain.
I never counted how many times I landed out, but it was more than a few. Many farmers fields, never an angry farmer. Once inside the fence of a chemical plant (beautiful big lawn) on a Sunday that took some discussion with security, but we worked it out. You land where it is best and safest to do so. Period.

When I competed, landing at an airport was no advantage. I'll have to think about that rule a bit. I am sure that those at the top could care less where the airports are. You fly a course that will be fastest.

Contest flying takes a little different mindset. Getting back is only one part of it. You must get back faster than the other guy. Tenths of seconds count. You can't linger in a thermal that is starting to lose it's lift. You must keep moving to the next turn point. It is competition. It can be a very serious sport. If you like that mode of glider flying, it is addictive. For sure you'll be a better pilot.
 
I have experienced one upset farmer. His main complaint was that if I had landed in any other feild other than the one I actually landed in I would have damaged crops. He didn't seem to grasp the idea I could have flown another 5 miles, but I could see that there were no other suitable feilds available. And rather than "hope" I found the lift I needed to continue. I opted to land in the safe feild. The Sheriff arrived just as I was leaving, he and the farmer apparently talked, but I never heard any more about it.

On another landing, I did have the Sheriff, Fire Trucks, and Ambulance show up about an hour after I landed when some called in that an Ultralight had crashed. Everyone else seemed to have enough sense to stop and ask if I needed any help, since I was sitting next to the glider eating my lunch while I waited for my trailer to arrive.

Brian
 
i have had the police called out a few times. they have always been curious and understanding. it is nice when they show up quickly, in time to call off the fire and ambulance.
 
Reading all this is really interesting to me. I'm really hoping to get into glider flying soon. I had no idea there were such competitions like this! It sounds like an amazing sport
 
tonycondon said:
i have had the police called out a few times. they have always been curious and understanding. it is nice when they show up quickly, in time to call off the fire and ambulance.
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Would there be benefit in calling 911 proactively after landing out, to let the dispatchers know that if they get reports of an airplane down in a field 2 miles SE of town, at the corner if X and Y, it's you? Leave your cell number with them, and save the department (which might be a volunteer crew if in a rural location) from being needlessly dispatched?


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Tony (center) made it to Fort Worth, here having lunch with AggieMike88 (Mike F) on the left, myself on the right, and (not pictured, but taking the photo) my wife, Teresa.
 

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A couple more pictures of Tony and his "YYY" trailer. This stop was 6 hours from home, with another 4 hours yet to go to Llano. Thanks for taking time to stop and visit with us, Tony! It was great to see you and talk airplanes! Mike, a pleasure to finally meet you as well!

Notice the puddles in the parking lot? We actually got about 6 hours of rain today in North Texas!! YAY! FINALLY!!!
 

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Man, I surely do wish I coulda been there.

Good luck, Tones!
 
thanks Spike.

Made it to Llano, trailer tied down, got to hotel and ate yummy pizza. Looks like about 4 or 5 other guys are here already, many familiar trailers from the Marfa camp, 2010.

Stopped in Granbury and visited Garrett and let Leah catch up. Enjoyed the drive through the hills, had fun playing the "could i land there" game.
 
Yeah, from Granbury South is quite beautiful. If you can steal away to Fredericksburg to see the Hangar Hotel and eat at the Diner, go for it!
 
well Troy i went to Fredericksburg today but only saw it from the air. Did a fairly easy 80 mile out/return down there although it wasn't without its low points. Nice that there is some runways about every ten miles between here and there. Not a lot of other landing places although I found a few pastures and tilled fields along the way as well.

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=-892854180

tomorrow is the "official" practice day with an actual task called and the contest starts for real on Tuesday. I figure I have all week to do good long flights and potentially land out so it was nice to make it home today.
 
Troy,

yea flew right over that area. Directly over Enchanted Rock state park on the way back. In fact there is a huge granite rock there that I got a great thermal off of. I think in that area I was wondering how it would be to land in that dry river bed. I bet the landing would be fine but the retrieve would be a b*tch! I also figured it would be possible to land on top of the rock but the retrieve would be even harder. Local guy said they've landed helicopters on top of there many times for EMS evacuations. Sometimes the choppers had trouble getting down on there because of the thermal activity.
 
awesome flight today. they set a task and i flew it and finished! task was Menard for with a 30 mile circle, Kerrville with a 30 mile circle, and Burnet with a 20 mile circle.

Oudie says i went 178 miles in 4 hours and 2 seconds. minimum time was 4 hours so i guess i did a good job timing that out. speed should work out very respectably. I was happy to make it back for summer and it will be nice not to have to rig the glider in the morning!

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=-797915770

they should have a SPOT tracking page set up for anyone who gives the guy their page. Here is the link: http://www.hawketracking.org/ghsa/files/tracking.htm

tomorrow is the first contest day, hopefully at least as good as today. I topped out at 9000 about 5 PM on my way to the second cylinder, which wasnt quite cloudbase. most of the good stuff was about 600-700 fpm climb when i had the choice to be picky and didn't get low enough that i had to take anything.
 
Tony:

Thanks for giving these updates - I (for one) really value getting them, living something special through you.
 
thanks Spike, i enjoy typing up the experience. Working on a lengthy blog post now.

SeeYou claims that my task distance was 167.9 miles in 3:59:56. Will see what the scoring works out to whenever they get around to posting the scores on the SSA website.
 
Wow, wish I could drop in on y'all in Llano, but I'd need an excuse to do the cross-country. I do think I may have heard some of the glider guys today while flying back with a student from Burnet.

It is interesting to consider the modern mindset vs. the old mindset. I image that even as little as 50-60 years ago you'd have been likely welcomed to land in a farmer's field, especially if you then took the kids up flying. Now we have liability issues, and wouldn't think of taking the kids up flying, might get sued for crop damage, and etc...

I do have one friend who's told me I can land at his dad's place (where he lives) anytime, but I've been wary of doing so for fear of getting in trouble with the FBO. He's got great grass, and smooth, too.

If any glider pilots land on our ranch while I'm there and don't act stupid, I promise to be friendly...

Ryan
 
well i got good news this morning. I won the practice day! of course it was only a practice win, the real deal started today. It was kind of fun to get to stand up and give the speech though.

today's task was similar to yesterdays and kept us flying in the same general area. Weather was similar although a little weaker, mainly due to the lack of good cumulus clouds. there were some wisps later in the day but they didn't really start showing up until about 3 PM. I started right after the gate opened at 1:45 and was to the second turn cylinder when i got to the edge of the clouds. After the third cylinder I was finally free from having to work into the wind and started to pick my speed back up to respectable levels. Average had been down to 33 mph but by the time I got back to Llano it was up to 38. I ended up coming in a bit undertime which cost me about .8 mph but considering the final glide I was happy to have made it back. As I reached the last turnpoint I was about 15-20 miles upwind of the airport at 2000 AGL working a weak but steady thermal. Thankfully it strengthened up and I had enough altitude to make a run. I tanked up another 500 feet on the way for insurance and of course then could not find any sink, everything was going up, and finished 1200 feet high. oh well. My raw speed should be somewhere around 37 mph, handicapped to about 58. yesterday I won with 63 handicapped, second and third were in the 61 range. So all in all I feel really good about the day and most importantly, I FINISHED!

4 more days to go.

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=-722296350
 
I always wanted to learn Greek (grin).

Was it warm, Tony?
 
yes it was quite warm, especially down low.

Score sheet was posted last night after bedtime. I am in 3rd place.
 
I assume (by inference and a tiny shred of common sense) that there is some sort of handicapping by aircraft capability?

Glad you're having fun!
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Would there be benefit in calling 911 proactively after landing out, to let the dispatchers know that if they get reports of an airplane down in a field 2 miles SE of town, at the corner if X and Y, it's you? Leave your cell number with them, and save the department (which might be a volunteer crew if in a rural location) from being needlessly dispatched?


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It isn't a bad idea to call 911 and let them know if you land near a major road where lots of people are going to see you. I haven't done so yet, but know a few pilots who have.

Brian
HP16T
 
Spike - yes the sports class is handicapped to try to equalize performance. I have, by far, the lowest performance glider here.

todays flight was a lot of fun. i got low several times but was able to find boomers back up and kept my speed very good, into the last turn cylinder. But man when i had to turn back into the wind it was like someone flipped a switch and everything was going DOWN. I could hardly make 10:1 over the ground and there are a lot of trees out here! I worked from pasture to pasture but eventually had to call it a day, a heartbreaking 4 miles short of the airport. oh well the retrieve was quick and we made it to supper with the gang. I still ended up with 614 points thanks to flying so far. My handicapped distance was longer than anyone. but without finishing, no speed points, so i'm down to 11th. Only a few hundred points out of the top half of the sheet though. plenty more flying left. Having a lot of fun.

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=-624470567
 
Awesome! Thanks for sharing the updates!! Glad you're having fun, it got HOT again down here, didn't it? Wish Saturday's rain would have started a cycle of lower temps, but it seems we've actually gone two degrees hotter than we already were.
 
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