Reducing risk at night

[Henning]

Trees don't bother me is silly talk. Of course they are not only a bother,they will kill you! Tell that to the husband and wife in a tripacer that deer hunters found 20 years later in the allaganey state park. Or the c46 years ago that hit a ridge of trees, (a non sked airline going from Florida to buffalo. Flying VFR, blundered into IFR conditions at night) Killed half of the 46 passengers, one who survived finally struggled thru deep snow to a farm house a day and a half later. They had two engines but stupid pilot. If you have engine failure in a single at night or in a twin without hi time in type , your probably toast. But........."tough guys" keep doing the same dumb things. You'll join the idiotic " he was doing what he loved" crowd.

More people leave trees alive than dead, I pulled 5 planes out of trees and all the occupants were ok. Big rocks only rarely leave survivors, it's a matter of odds. If I go into trees I am much happier than going into a rock face. Sometimes you're just looking at a **** sandwich, I'm happy when they wash off and I can brush my teeth afterwards.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Minimum speed is minimum total energy I can enter a blind situation with, that gives me my best odds. If I can see to target my deceleration zone and choose, then that figure can be modified.

You prove that often times the last word is wrong. Tough to see well at night in most instances. It's a lousy argument and time consuming. End.

 

[Henning]

You prove that often times the last word is wrong. Tough to see well at night in most instances. It's a lousy argument and time consuming. End.

That's why at night minimum is the speed and configuration of choice.

 

[Geico266]

Wires won't necessarily kill you.

I've seen several planes over the years hit wires and cut through them.

 

[James331]

I've seen several planes over the years hit wires and cut through them.

Heck AG planes and rotor wings have wire cutters on them.


Just know where you are,

Know your speeds and systems/procedures

Know how far you can glide in NM per thousand feet.

 

[Henning]

I've seen several planes over the years hit wires and cut through them.

There's a great picture of a 152 hanging from some high tension lines after tangling the mains after takeoff in Washington somewhere. He hung there for a while until they got him out, but ok.

 

[Riceyoung]

When I fly at night if I can follow an interstate I will. Even if that means going out of my way a bit. That way if I ever lose an engine I know where a big long landing strip is. It is not a perfect plan, but it is a plan. Just have to find a hole.

 

[bullwinkle]

I am a Sport Pilot and don't fly at night, but if I did I would really like a ballistic parachute...

 

[dans2992]

Minimum speed is minimum total energy I can enter a blind situation with, that gives me my best odds. If I can see to target my deceleration zone and choose, then that figure can be modified.

So are you saying in a "blind" situation that's one knot above stall? 1.2 Vso?

 

[Henning]

So are you saying in a "blind" situation that's one knot above stall? 1.2 Vso?

If I have no idea what I am running into leaving everything to chance, my best odds are being as slow as I can. The forward speed/vertical speed spread will fall where it may, if I have the information (thank you G-500) I will be aligned as well into the wind as I can be. The 2 things that will kill you first are excess Gs and outside intrusions into the occupant space. The less kinetic energy you enter the crash with, the less energy you provide these factors to kill you.

 

[Bill]

Get some IFR training.

IR training keeps the fan spinning at night, got it!

 

[noobJohn]

I have done a few night flights since getting my license. Key word is "few". That's how I deal with the increased risk. I do it less often.

I haven't done any night flying since my training about six months ago. I want to reduce as many risks as possible, and flying in the dark is one that I'm able to eliminate.

One pilot I really look up to thinks the same thing. He's an amazing guy who started flying in World War II and was a military test pilot and instructor for decades after the war — and remains sharp and skilled in the cockpit at over 90 years old, believe it or not. He doesn't like flying at night. He's had two engine-out landings in his many, many, many years of flying, and he wouldn't want that to happen after dark. Makes sense.

Personally, I'm confident I could walk away from an engine failure in the daytime. I can see where to put the plane down and am always looking for decent emergency landing spots on cross-countries. But the idea of having to do that at night terrifies me.

That said, I can see the advantages of night flying: less traffic, smooth air and gorgeous views over the cities. I'd like to do it.

I think I could be comfortable with it if synthetic vision worked like the name implied. From the videos I was watching of ForeFlight's new synthetic vision feature, though, I'm not sure it would have enough detail to actually know what structures are below you (e.g. land just looks like a plain green expanse, with no way of knowing whether you'd be putting the plane down on top of a barn or in the middle of a forest).

Is there a way to have it show satellite imagery, sort of like Google Earth? What do you guys do to reduce the risk of emergency landings at night?

 

[Vance Breese]

I find the best way to minimize aviation risk is to make good decisions while still on the ground.

I live in a rural area with lots of open fields and fly an aircraft that can safely land in the smallest places.

I find many of the open fields have wires through the middle of them and random fences.

I find most roads have wires nearby and often across them.

I have a glide ratio of about five to one so it is not likely I will be within gliding distance of an airport unless I fly too high to enjoy the night scenery.
The scenery is where a lot of the joy of flying comes for me and is why I fly low and slow.

I find I lose much of the interesting details when flying at night.

I find joy and adventure making a flight into an overnighter because I could not make it home before it gets dark instead of pressing on through the night.

My log book has less than 1% of my flying at night and all of it is either for ratings (first private and then commercial) or an inappropriate desire to make it home with poor flight planning.

When I become a CFI I will need to do night flights for my students and I am not looking forward to it.

My only real flight emergency was losing engine power when I pushed the push to talk button to turn on the lights on at Gila Bend on moonless night flight with my flight instructor.I found this disquieting.The engine power was restored when I released the push to talk button. After circling the beacon for what seemed like a very long time we followed an ailing twin in.Unfortunately the lights turned back off during short final.My landing was as nice as could be but that did not indicate to me that it was safe.The engine was a fuel injected EJ22 Subaru.

I fly a Lycoming IO-320 and a Rotax 914 now to avoid such things.

I stopped flying a Lycoming O-290 G in part because I had carburetor ice often.

I find trepidation takes a lot of the joy out of flying for me.

I have read enough posts here to know that some will suggest rudely that I live my life in fear and should probably not fly at all.

At some point suspect I will stop flying just as I no longer race motorcycles at the Isle of Mann and have stopped racing my motorcycle at Bonneville at over 300 miles per hour.With enough age my skills will deteriorate to the point where the risk becomes unacceptable to me.I have a low fear threshold.

In the mean time I will mitigate the risks of night flying by minimizing my night flying.

 

[Bill]

just as I no longer race motorcycles at the Isle of Mann

I'm with you on the night flying thing, but wow, you used to race IoM?

Holy crap, that HAS to be much more risky than flying a spam can at night.

 

[Vance Breese]

I'm with you on the night flying thing, but wow, you used to race IoM?

Holy crap, that HAS to be much more risky than flying a spam can at night.

I only did it only once in 1981 near the end of my 23 year road racing adventure and nobody was killed that year.

It rained the night before so it would be dry until under the trees and suddenly turn wet.

I feel it is more risky than flying at night and that was my point.

For an old person it would be even more risky.

Thank you Bill.

 

[sarangan]

All good points, but I think night flying is unfairly being labeled as unsafe. I have flown hundreds of hours at night in a single-engine in various parts of this country. I believe the fear of an engine failure comes from the old days when they used to fail too often. They are far more reliable now, and we would be better off concentrating on other accident factors such as weather, planning and pilot errors.

 

[Vance Breese]

All good points, but I think night flying is unfairly being labeled as unsafe. I have flown hundreds of hours at night in a single-engine in various parts of this country. I believe the fear of an engine failure comes from the old days when they used to fail too often. They are far more reliable now, and we would be better off concentrating on other accident factors such as weather, planning and pilot errors.

I don’t feel that flying at night is inherently unsafe.

I feel an engine out landing would have greater risk at night.

I don't feel that because I have only had one engine stop in flight and fly well maintained certified engines that I will not have an engine stop in flight.

Night is also the only time I have inadvertently flown into IMC.

I don’t feel that because I have not been killed flying that flying is safe.

I work to mitigate the risks and try to make good aviation decisions.

 

[Bill]

I only did it only once in 1981 near the end of my 23 year road racing adventure and nobody was killed that year.

It rained the night before so it would be dry until under the trees and suddenly turn wet.

Well, I give you big props on that one, the TT is one ballsy race. Going over to watch the TT is on my bucket list.

 

[Henning]

I only did it only once in 1981 near the end of my 23 year road racing adventure and nobody was killed that year.

It rained the night before so it would be dry until under the trees and suddenly turn wet.

I feel it is more risky than flying at night and that was my point.

For an old person it would be even more risky.

Thank you Bill.

There is only one thing to look forward to in life, and that is death. As we age we get closer to the longest age a person has lived. Since the chances of dying are 100%, the risk faced to doing anything decreases with age, not increase.

 

[Vance Breese]

There is only one thing to look forward to in life, and that is death. As we age we get closer to the longest age a person has lived. Since the chances of dying are 100%, the risk faced to doing anything decreases with age, not increase.

I suspect from the smiley face that this is aviation humor.
I find as I age my reaction time is slower and time to process information is longer.
I have become less fit (fat) and exercise less as I age.
I find I have less endurance than I had as a younger man.
I have had several traumatic brain injuries that reduce my cognitive abilities.
I am blind in one eye so it is hard for me to tell where the runway is.
I feel these handicaps elevate my risk when doing things that require the rapid processing of information and fast reaction times.
I work hard to mitigate the innate risks in aviation.
I hope I will recognize when I do not have sufficient situational awareness or cognitive abilities to manage the inherent risks in aviation.

 

[Henning]

I suspect from the smiley face that this is aviation humor.
I find as I age my reaction time is slower and time to process information is longer.
I have become less fit (fat) and exercise less as I age.
I find I have less endurance than I had as a younger man.
I have had several traumatic brain injuries that reduce my cognitive abilities.
I am blind in one eye so it is hard for me to tell where the runway is.
I feel these handicaps elevate my risk when doing things that require the rapid processing of information and fast reaction times.
I work hard to mitigate the innate risks in aviation.
I hope I will recognize when I do not have sufficient situational awareness or cognitive abilities to manage the inherent risks in aviation.

It's half humor half perspective. The point is the risk does not change, the risk is death and it is 100%. Since we do not know the time or mode of our death, we will call death "X". The only thing at risk is the time between birth and X, so the closer you get to the average age for X, the less you risk losing given a specific hazard.

Even the most severe actions or restrictions we place on ourselves to prevent X are very limited in the capacity to actually prevent X at any given moment, and will always fail in the long run.

 

[Vance Breese]

It's half humor half perspective. The point is the risk does not change, the risk is death and it is 100%. Since we do not know the time or mode of our death, we will call death "X". The only thing at risk is the time between birth and X, so the closer you get to the average age for X, the less you risk losing given a specific hazard.

Even the most severe actions or restrictions we place on ourselves to prevent X are very limited in the capacity to actually prevent X at any given moment, and will always fail in the long run.

As my skills deteriorate with my advancing years I feel it increases the risk of accidental death for any risk taking activity that requires those skills.
I enjoy every day of my life so I balance the risk and reward.
I make an effort to quantify the state of my skills before I engage in risky activities.
I do not share your perspective.
I am pleased to have done the things I have done and am pleased to move on to things more appropriate for a senior.
As I age I have found it takes longer for me to heal when things don’t work out although I seem to be better able to manage pain.

 

[KeithASanford]

You live through landing in a corn field. The plane may not, but you will.

Tom Huebbe didn't survive it.

I have a fear(not sure if its irrational) of flying into cables or wires at night. They are virtually invisible and if you're not familiar with the area, they can cook your goose.

 

[Henning]

Tom Huebbe didn't survive it.

I have a fear(not sure if its irrational) of flying into cables or wires at night. They are virtually invisible and if you're not familiar with the area, they can cook your goose.

He did not land in corn though, he landed in corn rows and flipped the plane with no corn there to absorb the impact. Grain/grass crop absorbs a lot of energy.

 

[woodchucker]

Lets say you are between SLC & DEN on a dark night at 17,500 on a Victor Airway all nice and secure in where you are and the engine dies with a bang. Where are you going to go? Having something to provide guidance between the big rocks is better than looking into the black.

If I'm ever in a situation where I'm flying at night over the Rocky Mountains...there are probably bigger problems than loss of an engine!

But I don't fly professionally. I'm speaking from the perspective of a GA pilot with low hours and nowhere special to go. I will fly night, along know routes with nothing but flat land beneath me.

I'm not discounting what you are saying... and I might invest in synthetic vision as well at some point... but I think it's potential use is restricted to specific situations. I do remember one night flight with my CFI though, where I got a heavy case of the leans out over the Utah west desert. Do you think synthetic vision might help with that? Sort of reset the brain?

 

[denverpilot]

I have done a few night flights since getting my license. Key word is "few". That's how I deal with the increased risk. I do it less often.

Works good for unprotected sex and Russian roulette too. Only pull the trigger once.

LOL.

Probably a better idea to come up with a real plan.

 

[dans2992]

Works good for unprotected sex and Russian roulette too. Only pull the trigger once.

LOL.

Probably a better idea to come up with a real plan.

I don't really buy that. It's all about risk/reward.

Would you play Russian roulette with one chamber loaded out of a million for a million bucks? I would.

Would you play the same game with a six chamber revolver for any amount of money - no.

 

[kenjr]

...fly where there's lights/roads/towns. That's about all you can do.

I love flying at night but don't plan on it or do it unless I absolutely have to. I love dusk flying - probably my favorite time to fly but you can still see stuff pretty well on the ground.

Part of my XC I had to plan on my PPL Checkride was a night trip. I think the DPE wanted to test my decision making skills and see how I'd handle it. The trip was from Austin Bergstrom to Waco, TX so I just flew I-35 all the way up. There are multiple airports on the way up so hopefully if anything did happen I'd be in vicinity. I also try to fly as high as possible at night to give myself precious minutes should anything happen. Where during the day I'm doing some of my own sightseeing or just relaxing during cruise...at night I'm constantly planning and doing the math in my head, "if the fan dies where am I going...".

I think that's about all you can do. If you really want to mitigate risk change your flight plan from a direct to route to a bit of a zig zag over towns/roads. At the very least, you'll feel better.

One of my first long XC's was from Austin to Lubbock, TX with my wife. We left later than I wanted to it was past sunset when we were still about 35 minutes from KLBB. I changed my direct route, which took us over some unpopulated...albeit flat...but unlit and desolate area...to right over the top of Highway 84 which took us over several small towns and a number of airports.

I knew if push came to shove I could put it down on 84 somewhere if I couldn't make an airport. It extended my trip time by maybe 10 minutes for the diversion, but small price to pay for peace of mind.

That said, I too just upgraded to a Stratus 2 and intend on using the synthetic vision...especially at night to help with situational awareness.

 

[denverpilot]

I don't really buy that. It's all about risk/reward.

Would you play Russian roulette with one chamber loaded out of a million for a million bucks? I would.

Would you play the same game with a six chamber revolver for any amount of money - no.

You have a plan. The other poster didn't. The reply wasn't about actually assessing a game of Russian roulette.

 

[Henning]

If I'm ever in a situation where I'm flying at night over the Rocky Mountains...there are probably bigger problems than loss of an engine!

But I don't fly professionally. I'm speaking from the perspective of a GA pilot with low hours and nowhere special to go. I will fly night, along know routes with nothing but flat land beneath me.

I'm not discounting what you are saying... and I might invest in synthetic vision as well at some point... but I think it's potential use is restricted to specific situations. I do remember one night flight with my CFI though, where I got a heavy case of the leans out over the Utah west desert. Do you think synthetic vision might help with that? Sort of reset the brain?

Yes, because SVT is eVFR. You are seeing the world in the same way that your brain has been seeing it since you were born. The whole 'leans' thing is caused by not having that visual reference to correlate the inner ear references. Your ear is telling you one thing, but it takes your brain and extra step of learned instrument interpretation to indirectly bring the picture into focus. For a seasoned six pack flier that becomes second nature and does not pose as significant of a risk. You can also combine that with the fact that most seasoned instrument pilots spend the majority of the time on autopilot.

What SVT buys you is speed and ease of information assimilation. In day to day flying this is not a significant factor, you are very correct in that. When you have a cascading failure situation and you need a lot of information and you need it fast because you have other things to deal with that are more significant than controlling the plane in IMC(like putting a fire out), you will feel like your investment in the panel was a lottery ticket that won the jackpot.

What SVT offers you is the information to control the plane is the most natural format possible so that your reaction processing requires the minimum amount of thought and happens with the least commitment to time, and least opportunity for you to get confused or make an error.

Consider SVT as an insurance policy that can force feed you the information you need most when you need it most. Outside of that it's just really nifty to have.

 

[VWGhiaBob]

This is one reason I own a Cirrus...over LA options are not good for night landings!

Other general night recommendations I use...add a working VASI or PAPI to your minimums and don't fly into an airport you haven't already tried during the day. Also, fly over the field first, and then do a regular pattern...much less chance of hitting obstructions. Most important...no long straight-ins without VASI, IFR glideslope or PAPI. Your eyes just aren't good enough for that and neither are mine!

 

[Pilot In Command]

Excellent post Vance

Risk is a personal and contextual thing and more pilots ought to think that way.