Recommendations for a cheap airplane

I think you are a perfect candidate for a small club/partnership.
like 4-8 owners. Plane usually available, costs shared.
 
All this talk of MX costs reminds me of why I'll never again own a non experimental.

Don't rule out buying a used experimental. They run the range from one of a kind (many older designs, and pretty much anything plans built) to "almost factory built" (RVs). Do all your own maintenance, only need an A&P (not an IA) for the annual.

Or if you want to build, consider a partially completed project, which can often be found for far less than the cost of materials.
 
The guys suggesting partnership have the right idea. I was in partnership in mine for years (and am looking to get a partner or two in my Mooney) and rarely had conflicts. Also, the OP is getting screwed in his annual inspection. sorry. If they're doing that on a Mooney, they're going to do likewise on any airframe. Only cure for that is owner assisted annuals or a new shop.

The one thing of which I am utterly certain is that cheap and airplane don't work together without lots of elbow grease.
 
If you only need two seats, it doesn't get much cheaper than a Colt...four seats, a Pacer/Tri-pacer is a bargain. I just looked on Barnstormers, and there were 3 colts, all with low time engines, all in the "$15k" range.
 
tawood said:
If you only need two seats, it doesn't get much cheaper than a Colt...four seats, a Pacer/Tri-pacer is a bargain. I just looked on Barnstormers, and there were 3 colts, all with low time engines, all in the "$15k" range.
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But bargain isn't just in the purchase price. What started this thread is the annual fixed costs of hangar, maintenance and insurance. While the purchase prices will affect some of that (hull coverage, for example) it won't affect most of it.
 
 
 
jsstevens said:
But bargain isn't just in the purchase price. What started this thread is the annual fixed costs of hangar, maintenance and insurance. While the purchase prices will affect some of that (hull coverage, for example) it won't affect most of it.
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True...sounds like he has at least two expense problems that need correcting.
 
One frustrating thing from this thread, though...

I've asked around for mechanics. For years. All I've discovered is where NOT to go. It's not like they're on every corner, and while, yes, you can travel to a better mechanic, rental cost of a plane to get you there and back (and the pilot, if I have to rent one) can add quite a bit of cost.

We used to have an avionics repair shop on the field at HSV. Now, nothing. I'd like for someone to look at COM2 and find out why it sounds like crap to tower, but I have no idea where to take it that wouldn't mean an overnight trip (or worse). Actually, scratch that. I'd have to leave the plane, come back, and then at some unknown time later, go pick it up again.

Is there some super secret mechanic's society or something?
 
with your radio I'd start the easy way....remove the radio and take it to a shop and have it bench checked. If that checks out fine....then determine how to get the whole plane there.
 
Mistake Not... said:
One frustrating thing from this thread, though...

I've asked around for mechanics. For years. All I've discovered is where NOT to go. It's not like they're on every corner, and while, yes, you can travel to a better mechanic, rental cost of a plane to get you there and back (and the pilot, if I have to rent one) can add quite a bit of cost.

We used to have an avionics repair shop on the field at HSV. Now, nothing. I'd like for someone to look at COM2 and find out why it sounds like crap to tower, but I have no idea where to take it that wouldn't mean an overnight trip (or worse). Actually, scratch that. I'd have to leave the plane, come back, and then at some unknown time later, go pick it up again.

Is there some super secret mechanic's society or something?
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Actually yes. Join the type club and ask. In this case, Mooney Space I believe is the place.

Tim
 
Heh. I quit using one I found on mooneyspace because of missed items, repairs I didn't ask for, etc. I'm sure that's good advice in general, but in this particular case, I switched away from a mechanic that was recommended from mooneyspace.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Heh. I quit using one I found on mooneyspace because of missed items, repairs I didn't ask for, etc. I'm sure that's good advice in general, but in this particular case, I switched away from a mechanic that was recommended from mooneyspace.
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Dang, I have been on Mooney Space a few times when I considered a Mooney briefly.

Tim
 
Eh, it's not their fault, and it -is- a good suggestion. But man, was I disappointed. I'd rather not mention the name, but it was...not a good experience. And I was dumb enough to go back three years in a row. Each time it seemed to get worse.

I realize alabama may not be the best place to try to find alternatives, but it's a freakin' mechanic desert out here. :)
 
Mistake Not... said:
Eh, it's not their fault, and it -is- a good suggestion. But man, was I disappointed. I'd rather not mention the name, but it was...not a good experience. And I was dumb enough to go back three years in a row. Each time it seemed to get worse.

I realize alabama may not be the best place to try to find alternatives, but it's a freakin' mechanic desert out here. :)
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The A&P/IA drives a couple hours to my hangar, and we work together Fri, Sat and a little bit on Sunday. I have all panels, cowl and spinner removed before he arrives, and it's ready to fly when he leaves. Retired Army A&P from near Ft. Rucker. It wouldn't be a long flight for you to spend a weekend down his way, knock out an annual, and all up costs be just over an AMU.

If you can't stay, I could probably get you back to HSV, then you'd only need to go back to fetch her when he's done.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Eh, it's not their fault, and it -is- a good suggestion. But man, was I disappointed. I'd rather not mention the name, but it was...not a good experience. And I was dumb enough to go back three years in a row. Each time it seemed to get worse.

I realize alabama may not be the best place to try to find alternatives, but it's a freakin' mechanic desert out here. :)
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If you are in Atlanta, is Knoxville to far?
I used to live next to an airpark in TN (I still have land there in case you want to buy), about 50 miles north of Knoxville. I drove down to Atlanta a few times for work when my plane was not available. So the drive is not too bad.
There was a mechanic based near Knoxville which did a lot of Bonanza and Mooney's if I recall correctly. My primary contact passed away, but I could reach out to others for info if you are interested.

Tim
 
Just to have fun flying, a Champ, C-150/152, Ercoupe, etc. will fit the bill nicely. We have a C-150, and our annuals run around $600 to $700, usually with a minor "fix" or two but nothing major. Our most expensive annual in over 10 years of owning the 150 has been around $2,300. There were several issues that time, new mechanic (old one retired), and it was near when we bought the airplane so there were several things we were fixing. However, for your 200 nm trips, a 150/152 will get a little tiring, especially if you have much of a headwind. An AA1 will fly a little faster, but if I were in your position, I would be looking for a Traveler or Cheetah, or a Tiger if you want to spend a little more. They are fixed gear, so maintenance and annual will likely be less. They are a lot roomier than a C-150/152, and I think you could find a good example for $50k or so. Your insurance on a $50k hull value will be less than on a $115k hull value. They are not as fast as a Mooney, but not too far behind. I hope your decision is not to give up flying.
 
somorris said:
Just to have fun flying, a Champ, C-150/152, Ercoupe, etc. will fit the bill nicely. We have a C-150, and our annuals run around $600 to $700, usually with a minor "fix" or two but nothing major. Our most expensive annual in over 10 years of owning the 150 has been around $2,300. There were several issues that time, new mechanic (old one retired), and it was near when we bought the airplane so there were several things we were fixing. However, for your 200 nm trips, a 150/152 will get a little tiring, especially if you have much of a headwind. An AA1 will fly a little faster, but if I were in your position, I would be looking for a Traveler or Cheetah, or a Tiger if you want to spend a little more. They are fixed gear, so maintenance and annual will likely be less. They are a lot roomier than a C-150/152, and I think you could find a good example for $50k or so. Your insurance on a $50k hull value will be less than on a $115k hull value. They are not as fast as a Mooney, but not too far behind. I hope your decision is not to give up flying.
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The problem is, a Cheetah/Traveler/Tiger isn't any cheaper to operate than a Mooney. He'll still have insurance, hangar, etc. for just about any aircraft he owns. I'm sure operating cost differences between a Tiger and an M20 are close enough to be written off as rounding error. The only thing that will make his flying cheaper is to get lower insurance/hangar rental rates, finding a more reasonable mechanic for annuals, and/or look into getting a partner or two to split costs. Otherwise, he's going to be in the same situation, whether flying a Tiger, a Mooney, or a C150.
 
Hank S said:
The A&P/IA drives a couple hours to my hangar, and we work together Fri, Sat and a little bit on Sunday. I have all panels, cowl and spinner removed before he arrives, and it's ready to fly when he leaves. Retired Army A&P from near Ft. Rucker.
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I used to have guys do that for my old airplane. We'd take it apart, they'd come in and do the annual, then we'd all pitch in to put it back together. I really liked doing it that way, but those guys stopped, and I don't know anyone else who will. If I did, that's what I'd do. I think what I'll do this time out is stay when I deliver it for annual, camp out at the airport and pitch in wherever I can. I like to stay on top of these things.
 
SoonerAviator said:
The problem is, a Cheetah/Traveler/Tiger isn't any cheaper to operate than a Mooney. He'll still have insurance, hangar, etc. for just about any aircraft he owns. I'm sure operating cost differences between a Tiger and an M20 are close enough to be written off as rounding error. The only thing that will make his flying cheaper is to get lower insurance/hangar rental rates, finding a more reasonable mechanic for annuals, and/or look into getting a partner or two to split costs. Otherwise, he's going to be in the same situation, whether flying a Tiger, a Mooney, or a C150.
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Tiger has no retractable landing gear and no constant speed propeller, so the annual should be a little less and you have fewer expensive things to to wrong. Is it going to make that much of a difference? Probably not. Hangars are expensive here, and if you don't hangar you can expect to get hailed on every five years or so.

A partner is probably the best solution.
 
FormerHangie said:
Tiger has no retractable landing gear and no constant speed propeller, so the annual should be a little less and you have fewer expensive things to to wrong. Is it going to make that much of a difference? Probably not. Hangars are expensive here, and if you don't hangar you can expect to get hailed on every five years or so.

A partner is probably the best solution.
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I understand that there's no controllable prop and retract on a Tiger, but the Mooney ought to be a bit cheaper in terms of fuel burn per mile, so I'm sure the increased annual/insurance will be somewhat offset by fuel savings. Tigers are something like 120KTAS @ 9GPH, M20F should be around 140KTAS @ 9GPH. It works out to something like 15 minutes of engine time/2.25 gallons of fuel on a 200nm flight. You make 10 of those round trips per year and you're saving $200 over a Tiger (in theory) which probably covers the increase in annual expense. Repairs costs for the prop/gear on the M20 are another matter . . .
 
SoonerAviator said:
I understand that there's no controllable prop and retract on a Tiger, but the Mooney ought to be a bit cheaper in terms of fuel burn per mile, so I'm sure the increased annual/insurance will be somewhat offset by fuel savings. Tigers are something like 120KTAS @ 9GPH, M20F should be around 140KTAS @ 9GPH. It works out to something like 15 minutes of engine time/2.25 gallons of fuel on a 200nm flight. You make 10 of those round trips per year and you're saving $200 over a Tiger (in theory) which probably covers the increase in annual expense. Repairs costs for the prop/gear on the M20 are another matter . . .
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But OP doesn't fly enough, something like 60 hours a year? How much is cross country where the extra speed matters?
 
It's worse than that, for me anyway. I run ROP, and try to keep the cylinders temps <380F. Doing that in mine requires 13.5 gph. Now, I have the IO390, so maybe that's part of it, but my fuel flow has always been higher than what most people quote. This is a bit less at 10k MSL, but I usually go home around 6-8.
 
teejayevans said:
But OP doesn't fly enough, something like 60 hours a year? How much is cross country where the extra speed matters?
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Nearly all of it. I bought the plane for a specific set of missions. Very little is going around the patch.
 
I'd be a +1 on the try and find a couple of partners to split the cost with you
 
Mistake Not... said:
It's worse than that, for me anyway. I run ROP, and try to keep the cylinders temps <380F. Doing that in mine requires 13.5 gph. Now, I have the IO390, so maybe that's part of it, but my fuel flow has always been higher than what most people quote. This is a bit less at 10k MSL, but I usually go home around 6-8.
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You running 75% power? You must be running faster than 140KTAS at that fuel burn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Just a thought, but have you considered a gently used S-LSA? A year and a half ago I bought a 2008 AMD 601XLi-B Zodiac with less than 100 hours TTAE, always hangared, for $50k. It was owned by a retired 85 year old ATP who had health problems and decided to let his medical expire and fly as a sport pilot. His health issues reached the point where he didn't feel he could safely fly, so he put it up for sale.

The plane has an O-200 engine, and I plan for 110 knots cruise burning 5 1/2 gph. I changed the certification from S-LSA to "Experimental Operating as Light Sport" so I could do my own maintenance, then took the 16 hour LSA Repairman - Inspection class at Rainbow Aviation Services so I can do my own condition inspections. My annual insurance premium is $924 from AIG Aerospace.

If your mission is 200nm trips to visit family and you usually fly alone, something similar might be worth considering. These new LSAs are real airplanes, and are pretty roomy for 2 people (cabin width is 44 inches, 5 inches more than a 172). For long cross-countries with full fuel (30 gallons, 28 usable), it's basically a single place airplane, but with fuel for a couple of hours it's a comfy 2-place.

N601KE%20Front%20Left%20Quarter%20med_zps7djhh4oa.jpg


N601KE%20Panel%20med_zpsxwhncnap.jpg
 
Mistake Not... said:
It's worse than that, for me anyway. I run ROP, and try to keep the cylinders temps <380F. Doing that in mine requires 13.5 gph. Now, I have the IO390, so maybe that's part of it, but my fuel flow has always been higher than what most people quote. This is a bit less at 10k MSL, but I usually go home around 6-8.
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I run my M20-C ROP, at 145-148 KTAS at altitude, and see 9 gph at the fuel pump . . . . .
 
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