recommendation of parachute brands wanted

Jeanie

Jeanie

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Jeanie
OK. So I'm considering getting a Super Decathlon and will need parachutes. What kind do you recommend?
Thanks
 
Jeanie said:
OK. So I'm considering getting a Super Decathlon and will need parachutes. What kind do you recommend?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Just found it!

In a Decathlon you can use either a security chute or a regular back pack.
Whatever you do, get a chute rated for at least a 150mph opening as airspeed can build up in a hurry if you have a structrual failure. Secondly, make sure you match the canopy size against your body weight to give you a maximum ROD of 16 ft/sec.

Some tips; If you buy a used chute, have it checked and re-rigged by a certified rigger and PULL THE RIPCORD before leaving the chute.

Always put on your chute standing up outside the aircraft and never leave it in the seat to be secured in a sitting position after you enter the cockpit.
Reason is tightness of the harness; much better when done standing up.

NEVER put your chute on the ground for ANY REASON!

As for a manufacturer, rather than recommend a specific chute, I always recommend that a pilot enter the pipeline starting with a master rigger. I've found through experience that the learning curve experienced by the pilot seeking the chute pays big dividends for the pilot.

DH
 
Some tips; If you buy a used chute, have it checked and re-rigged by a certified rigger and PULL THE RIPCORD before leaving the chute.

Huh? what do you mean: Pull the ripcord before leaving the chute... I thought you pull it when your falling through the air towards the ground...
I have some parachute learning curve heading my way
 
Jeanie said:
Some tips; If you buy a used chute, have it checked and re-rigged by a certified rigger and PULL THE RIPCORD before leaving the chute.

Huh? what do you mean: Pull the ripcord before leaving the chute... I thought you pull it when your falling through the air towards the ground...
I have some parachute learning curve heading my way
Click to expand...

If you intend flying aerobatics and wearing a chute, remember what I am about to tell you if you remember nothing else you ever hear from an aerobatic instructor.
Your parachute is your life. Treat it as though every time you lay your hands on it you will need it.
The reason you pull a ripcord when you leave your chute to be repacked is to INSURE it is in fact repacked and repacked completely!
Trust for a rigger comes over time. It is notable that no rigger worth hiring to pack a chute for you would object to having a D ring pulled in front of them as a chute is left to be repacked.
If you ever come across a rigger who would object to this procedure, don't use that rigger!
DH
 
Ah, I get it now. Thanks for the advice.
Just looked at a couple of parachute companies - jimminy they are expensive - but like you said... you rely on it for your life
 
Jeanie said:
Ah, I get it now. Thanks for the advice.
Just looked at a couple of parachute companies - jimminy they are expensive - but like you said... you rely on it for your life
Click to expand...

I can think of no better example of "you get what you pay for". Spare no expense on your chute.
DH
 
Like a handgun, you never need a 'chute until you need one REALLY BADLY.

Dudley is right on the money. Go work with a master rigger to figure out what's best for you.

When I was in the Coast Guard, nearly all our life support gear was from Switlik. Rafts, chutes, vests, etc. I was never less than thrilled with their customer support. But I also have no idea what it cost, so aside from recommending the company, I can't say if their products would be right for you.
 
The 'chute I'm going to recommend is very likely the most expensive one you'll look at but over the life of your involvement in the sport, the difference between this chute and a cheap on is in the round off error. Check out Butler parachutes, watch the test videos, and talk to people that fly acro a lot and I'll be surprised if you don't come to the same conclusion that I did - while expensive, they're clearly superior.
 
Dudley Henriques said:
The reason you pull a ripcord when you leave your chute to be repacked is to INSURE it is in fact repacked and repacked completely!
Click to expand...

Huh? If the rigger is going to short you a repack, all you have cost them is some red thread and re-crimping the lead seal? The labor intensive work is inspecting the components and stuffing the canopy back in the bag. Its sort of the fabric equivalent of annualing your airframe.

If you are anxious about seeing the reserve re-packed, make them take your thru the deployment sequence by extracting everything for you on the bench. Its a great idea anyway as it gives you a chance to see everything yourself, eyeball its condition, and have someone walk you thru the mechanics. I would agree with Dudley's comment that there is a lot more learning to be afforded than simply a good brand recommendation.

Better yet, make a short jump (or a few). Riding in a boat ain't swimming and it will be the closest thing to up-up-and-away flying w/o Yves Rossy Rocket Wings. Even a tandem affords you the chance to experience the element and if you explain to them your goals, there are mechanisms to let you pull the "ripchord" under a tandem drogue.

Ultimately, the exit under duress probably has very little in common with a sport jump and perhaps the more important skills are practicing with the door pins and harness but a sport jump (or a few) would be a blast.

Jealous on your Decathalon objective!
Regards
Todd
 
Talk to Allen Silver at Silver Parachutes. Tony, and I have both bought chutes there, and he comes highly recommended from other glider guys.
 
Thanks everyone. Now how do I find a Master Rigger to visit with? I can't go to California to see Alan in person... is there a listing directory for them.
I'm in West Texas, near Dave Taylor....
 
Jeanie said:
Ah, I get it now. Thanks for the advice.
Just looked at a couple of parachute companies - jimminy they are expensive - but like you said... you rely on it for your life
Click to expand...

You can get them used, and although it might sound strange -- they are a lot like airplanes -- their condition can be ascertained with a good inspection and they can be maintained to very good condition.

Make sure you try out the harness to make sure its comfortable. I am going to utter some sacrilege. I think its as important that you can sit in the thing for hours and some sit differently on your frame. I'd be as prejudiced to one that was sized right, more so than a brand.

Now the fit may also be adjustable by that master rigger and that is something I am not familar with. But I do know that some models have a deliberate "wedge" shape to recline you, some you sit on the canopy and others you lean against it. I know that the Strong models also had specific units for specific airplanes and the "sit on it" kind replace the seat cushions in some airplanes.

Todd
 
Worst case scenario, you'll have to mail it to someone like Allen. In your case stop by Marfa Gliders and ask Burt where he sends his chutes to get repacked. He's got a whole bunch for his Glider operation, and he'd know if there's anyone good in the area. Another option would be to talk to the nearest jump zone.
 
I'll get in touch with Burt. Good idea. Maybe I can try some on also and see what sort of fits.
 
vontresc said:
Talk to Allen Silver at Silver Parachutes. Tony, and I have both bought chutes there, and he comes highly recommended from other glider guys.
Click to expand...

He has some well worth reading (as in YOU REALLY SHOULD READ ALL OF IT even if you don't plan on buying from him) stuff here:

http://www.silverparachutes.com/articles.html

As far as pulling the 'chute before you send it in to be repacked - It's a good idea so you know what is inside, and what kind of controls your particular 'chute has, and what they look like, and...

The aforementioned articles give examples of some of the variations.
 
Jeanie - this is not to discount any of the great info already presented but you may also consider contacting Diana for her perspective as well.
Not to sound sexist but things fit men differently than women and she may have insight us guys can't provide. :smile:
 
Good point, Kevin, we are shaped differently :yes:

I'll see what some are like when I go over to visit w/ Burt in Marfa. That will at least be a start. Allen Silver recommends, in an article I read, a backpack type for ease of egress. I'll see how I fit in the decathlon this weekend. I'm kind of short (5'2") so I suspect I'll need a cushion - as part of the chute or not.
 
kevin47881 said:
Jeanie - this is not to discount any of the great info already presented but you may also consider contacting Diana for her perspective as well.
Not to sound sexist but things fit men differently than women and she may have insight us guys can't provide. :smile:
Click to expand...
:) That wasn't sexist at all. :)

I sent Jean an email yesterday. :)

The National I bought (used at $750) from a reputable person (Chip) who took good care of it, and it's okay, but I don't like the seatpack. When I decided to buy a new one for my use (passengers get the seatpack), I went to the different vendors at OSH and tried a bunch of them on. Went with the Softie backpack and like it, especially the crossover aerobatic style harness...it seems to fit better/tighter on a smaller person than my National.

In the Citabria, if I wear the National seatpack, I have to take the bottom cushion out and it's not as comfortable. I'm 5'3" and don't need any additional cushions to sit on in my airplane. Besides, you're not supposed to be able to see forward anyway. ;) In order to reach the pedals, I need additional padding behind my back, so the backpack is perfect for me.

Don't forget to budget for having the parachute repacked every 180 days...it costs me $50 per parachute, so that's $200/year.
 
Hi Diana,

Yeeesh. Having fun can be expensive :)

See ya
 
Jeanie said:
Good point, Kevin, we are shaped differently :yes:

I'll see what some are like when I go over to visit w/ Burt in Marfa. That will at least be a start. Allen Silver recommends, in an article I read, a backpack type for ease of egress. I'll see how I fit in the decathlon this weekend. I'm kind of short (5'2") so I suspect I'll need a cushion - as part of the chute or not.
Click to expand...

Jeanie; In a Decathlon, you might want to take a look at one of the "softies".
Remember 150mph and a maximum of 16 ft/sec. A good softie will probably set you back the better part of 2 grand but you can get one that will be comfortable on your body in a Decathlon seat. The reduced weight of a softie chute can be a REAL asset for a girl if you have a structrual failure. A lot of akro pilots don't think enough about two VERY pertinent factors when considering a bailout.
1. You need to plan for a high velocity opening as in almost every situation where a bail out is necessary you have a more than even chance of being in the midst of a structrual failure of some kind. Under these conditions, you can forget aerodynamics because the airplane will be an anvil in accelleration on the way down. ALSO, on the plus side of having a softie chute and being a girl, (trust me, I'm not a chauvinist, just realistic about body strength under stress), in a bailout situation you could easily be under many g's. This means anything you are wearing on your body will be feeling those g's as well and your chute is included in that equation. You don't want to be dragging a heavy backpack with you trying to get out under a load of 4 to 6 g's, not to mention transitional g if out of control.
Just some things to consider here :)
Get a good chute. Have it checked by a master rigger. Get the proper parameters for your body weight. And get a chute as light as possible that will fulfill these needs.
Dudley Henriques
 
If you are going to visit Burt in Marfa I am sure he should be point you to a good Master Rigger in the area. You can also check at local skydiving locations as they need a Master Rigger to pack their reserve chutes.

There are between 6 and 10 glider pilots in my area and we often have our chutes packed together in the spring. The 180 days covers most of our flying season. One year we took about 6 chutes to ourrigger and one of our pilots who hadn't ever pulled the D-ring had the privilege of opening all 6 chutes. On about the 5th chute he could not pull the D-ring even after several tries. The Rigger carefully inspected the chute and discovered the nico-press on the rip cord (IIRC) was placed in the wrong location allowing it to bind up on the guide for the rip cord. Apparently this was a manufacturing defect. He was able to correct the issue and reported it to the FAA. I think they ended up issuing and AD for these chutes to check and correct this issue.

About a month later one of our local formula one pilots borrowed this chute to test fly his new formula one racer. He called the chutes owner afterward to inquire about how to get it repacked. The elevator push rod on the plane failed and he ended up bailing out.

BTW: I think mine is a Security 350 and I am very happy with it, I have sat on it for about 500+ hrs in my glider.

Brian
 
Jeanie said:
Meeeee--meeeep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SPLAAAT - yeah, right
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gregg : What's a round reserve?
Click to expand...

Most emergency 'chutes are round as seen from above with slots for steering. Think WW-II paratroopers. Yes, the design is about that old.

Skydivers gave up on the round stuff years ago, and some think that the use of a round 'chute should be given up period.

But, I have read from some "experts" that the round chute is still the best choice for someone who does not have (or plan to get) sky diving instruction.

The two styles do work differently - particularly when landing. Also, there are claims that round 'chute will open and inflate more reliably when you are tumbling out of control (like a typical untrained pilot making the first jump...)

ymmv. I ain't no expert (and have never jumped under either style).

Have a long talk with a rigger who has some experience with emergency 'chutes.
 
Pilots are pretty much the only ones still using round parachutes. Even the Army is replacing rounds for paratroopers. The linked to pilot rig has a steerable ramair parachute detuned for inexperienced jumpers. Ramair parachutes are just inefficient wings doesn't take black magic to fly them. Ignore the fear talk most pilots parachute knowledge is based on what was current technology in WWII. If you are buying new the price difference isn't that much.
 
I've bought a number of chutes through the years, and have great luck with Paraphernalia. They are great guys, and according to the master rigger that packs my chutes, the containers are well made and well designed. They will make one to fit your seat and height size.

Every time I get out of my plane, formerly a Super Decathlon and now an Extra, I think about the egress process, since the plane will likely be out of control, spinning, on fire, or some combination of these.

I remember learning in flight surgeon school that most deaths in airplane crashes are due to a delayed decision to eject. In the F-16 it was 2000ft AGL when under control, and 8 or 10 thousand went the plane has departed control, and this is with a zero zero Aces II seat. So, if things are looking bad, get out.

Finally, I always pull the D ring when it's time to repack and pull the chute out of the container. It gives a good feel for how hard and how much it takes to pull the D ring, and makes sure the rigger does a job in redoing the rubber bands and a thorough inspection (I hope).

Good luck.
 
Well, thanks everyone for the info. I have been thinking that maybe I should go do a tandem jump w/ some skydive school just to have a feel for what it's like etc. However, I broke my ankle a year ago and am still stiff with it - sure wouldn't want to injure myself again trying to be "careful" :rolleyes:

Any thoughts on that???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every time I get out of my plane, formerly a Super Decathlon and now an Extra, I think about the egress process, since the plane will likely be out of control, spinning, on fire, or some combination of these.

Ah,hah, a Super Decathlon, eh? I may plague you with questions now and then. :D
 
If you aren't overweight you should be fine doing a tandem. Heavy strong folks do OK, fatish folks sometimes get creamed due to an inability to lift their legs which leads to a faceplant. First jump course with out tandem might be better, you will learn more. Tandems first aren't a requirement that is just some drop zones policy. If you insist on a first jump course they will likely give you one. Give Rigging Innovations a call, also I believe paraphenalia has a square reserve option as well. You are being smart, pilot rigs are the last holdout for rounds and they are being replaced for that job as well.
Jeanie said:
Well, thanks everyone for the info. I have been thinking that maybe I should go do a tandem jump w/ some skydive school just to have a feel for what it's like etc. However, I broke my ankle a year ago and am still stiff with it - sure wouldn't want to injure myself again trying to be "careful" :rolleyes:

Any thoughts on that???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every time I get out of my plane, formerly a Super Decathlon and now an Extra, I think about the egress process, since the plane will likely be out of control, spinning, on fire, or some combination of these.

Ah,hah, a Super Decathlon, eh? I may plague you with questions now and then. :D
Click to expand...
 
Jeanie said:
Well, thanks everyone for the info. I have been thinking that maybe I should go do a tandem jump w/ some skydive school just to have a feel for what it's like etc. However, I broke my ankle a year ago and am still stiff with it - sure wouldn't want to injure myself again trying to be "careful" :rolleyes:

Any thoughts on that???
Click to expand...
I've thought about doing that, too. But, with my bad back and messed up joints, I decided not to.

BTW, when I do W&B, I add 14 pounds for each parachute. Because the battery is in the back of my Citabria, I have to be even more careful with passenger's weights in the back when doing aerobatics. The 7ECA has the battery in the front. Some people are just too big to take for an aerobatic ride. Also, if the stick won't come all the way back with their parachutes on (or with it off for that matter), they can't go with me. Maybe someone who has/had a Decathlon can give you some input on W&B.
 
Diana said:
I've thought about doing that, too. But, with my bad back and messed up joints, I decided not to.

BTW, when I do W&B, I add 14 pounds for each parachute. Because the battery is in the back of my Citabria, I have to be even more careful with passenger's weights in the back when doing aerobatics. The 7ECA has the battery in the front. Some people are just too big to take for an aerobatic ride. Also, if the stick won't come all the way back with their parachutes on (or with it off for that matter), they can't go with me. Maybe someone who has/had a Decathlon can give you some input on W&B.
Click to expand...

I guess I was lucky :blush::D
 
Diana said:
<snip> Maybe someone who has/had a Decathlon can give you some input on W&B.
Click to expand...

I haven't flown the Decathlon, but have flown several Citabria's. I have found that it is typcally very difficult to put 2 people in Citabria (without chutes) and have more than about 15 gallons of gas. I think the Citabria really should have been certified under both normal and acrobatic categories with an increased gross weight for normal category, it would have made the Citabria a much more capable aircraft.

BTW: I find this to be about my only fault for the Citabria, otherwise I love them. I am part owner in a Scout.

Brian
 
brcase said:
I haven't flown the Decathlon, but have flown several Citabria's. I have found that it is typcally very difficult to put 2 people in Citabria (without chutes) and have more than about 15 gallons of gas.
Click to expand...
Yep, and typically I figure even less fuel for aerobatics with two people.
 
Sooo Diana, what's the max weight for an aerobatic ride? I need to know so I have a goal for Gaston's :D
 
vontresc said:
Sooo Diana, what's the max weight for an aerobatic ride? I need to know so I have a goal for Gaston's :D
Click to expand...
Well, that depends. ;) But, I won't be at the "PoA" Gaston's fly-in next year, so you won't have to add that as a reason for weight loss to your goals. :)
 
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