Recommend a goal aircraft.

Some Comanches have 2 smaller seats that can go in the baggage area giving them 6 seats. They’re also a solid 155kts. (260B)
 

So, what I hear is 4x (at least) FAA-sized people for 1100NM each way, 4x per year, + local flying.

I think you’re looking to do an IFR upgrade along the way, because you’ll make than likely need it for a trip like your describing.

In your position, I’d really look at something other than sole ownership, and preferably a multi-aircraft club or partnership. What you’ll save on acquisition cost will enable more flying, more training, and potentially more capable aircraft when you need it (4x per year).

That type of arrangement is also a good introduction to sole ownership and everything it entails.
 
Jumpmaster said:
Bonanza. Many of the older models would fit your mission profile easily and is the standard POA answer to every “what plane should I buy” thread.
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The reason it is the standard answer is that it's a joke. Like AOA, Cole Slaw, best piece of crap to use fore flight on, etc.

Unless you actually own one. Then it is a fact!

[Seriously - A36's are awesome if they fit your budget]
 
TCABM said:
So, what I hear is 4x (at least) FAA-sized people for 1100NM each way, 4x per year, + local flying.

I think you’re looking to do an IFR upgrade along the way, because you’ll make than likely need it for a trip like your describing.

In your position, I’d really look at something other than sole ownership, and preferably a multi-aircraft club or partnership. What you’ll save on acquisition cost will enable more flying, more training, and potentially more capable aircraft when you need it (4x per year).

That type of arrangement is also a good introduction to sole ownership and everything it entails.
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I actually joined a club to do my training, I also intend to home base out of there, so membership is good for the cheaper hangar and access to the avionics guy and A&P.
 
Wouldnt a Dakota also fit his mission?

Just the fact you mentioned 2 doors (yes low priority...but you brought it up) makes me think you're letting your slight low wing preference bias things too much.

Our 182P (vfr only) checks every box and we run around $125/hr (fuel,mx reserve,hangar,ins). With kids and most likely with adults youll stop at least once so the speed advantage of a Mooney over a 182 becomes less of a direct advantage. The Mooney will burn less fuel though :) But in the 182 you get both doors and pretty much the most room, both shoulder to shoulder and rear passenger leg room. Dont underestimate the room inside if you will be flying trips with all seats filled. I believe you could eventually find a vfr mid time engine example right at or just above your range but it will have original paint and interior.

As another poster said your budget is probably too low. Probably $25k too low.

Also as a newbie that 500-600nm trip seems almost romantic right about now. But the week before you go youll stress wx and probably cancel 85% of the time in the winter (low ifr, icing) and 50% of the time in the summer (storms, etc).

We fly to Grandmas (~200nm) an our 10yo daughter does just fine unless its hot summer chop then she starts to feel uneasy but makes it work. I know she could make 300nm now. But unless she were to sleep i think 400nm would be pushing it. The headphones get old/heavy for a kid. The tablet use gets old, etc. Then thoughts turn to tummy or bathroom. That can also happen with with adult passengers, especially those that dont fly much.
 
Tricorter said:
I actually joined a club to do my training, I also intend to home base out of there, so membership is good for the cheaper hangar and access to the avionics guy and A&P.
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Excellent. What aircraft are available to you in this club?
 
I'd say a good rule of thumb is 70-75% of what your budget ACTUALLY is. So if you're looking at 60-80, you're actually looking at 45-65. You need to leave a buffer for your first year. If a plane is pristine, the owner ain't selling. Give yourself the breathing room. If that means you need to save, then you need to save. Some people like @James311 can make money buying and selling aircraft. The rest of us mere mortals can only hope to break even... So even if you were to buy, it isn't like it is an investment in the future. The only equity you're gaining is if you're paying off a loan you're getting... and even then you're sinking yourself into a plane that truly costs way more than your budget. It makes way more sense saving up for another year and renting in the mean time. I know you really really want a plane now, but it may not be wise.

I say all this from my personal experience in plane buying. YMMV.
 
ircphoenix said:
I'd say a good rule of thumb is 70-75% of what your budget ACTUALLY is. So if you're looking at 60-80, you're actually looking at 45-65. You need to leave a buffer for your first year. If a plane is pristine, the owner ain't selling. Give yourself the breathing room. If that means you need to save, then you need to save. Some people like @James311 can make money buying and selling aircraft. The rest of us mere mortals can only hope to break even... So even if you were to buy, it isn't like it is an investment in the future. The only equity you're gaining is if you're paying off a loan you're getting... and even then you're sinking yourself into a plane that truly costs way more than your budget. It makes way more sense saving up for another year and renting in the mean time. I know you really really want a plane now, but it may not be wise.

I say all this from my personal experience in plane buying. YMMV.
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I actually am not wanting one now, I'm planning on 3-5 years from now. I'm going to need the time to get some hours racked up, and also to narrow the field as much as possible/save as much as possible. I figured the 60k was what I'd have in the bank in 3 years and 80 in five.(provided nothing in my budget/short term portfolio changes)
I was also open to the idea of financing a portion of what I buy, incase I want to upgrade the panel/buy a new engine/whatever it needs.
Thank you again for your advice.
 
Rgbeard said:
Just never, ever, let anyone in your family see the rear doors on a PA32.

If they do - game over. You're getting a PA32/Cherokee Six/Lance/'Toga.
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Lol, My wife thinks that's where I should go. Her parents are....large people. To be honest I kinda liked it anyway, but once again, by the time I can afford one of those they'll probably.....be flying with the angels....(trying to be as nice as humanly possible here) Then it'll just me me, her and a kid or two so no need for a Six.
 
Sinistar said:
Wouldnt a Dakota also fit his mission?

Just the fact you mentioned 2 doors (yes low priority...but you brought it up) makes me think you're letting your slight low wing preference bias things too much.

Our 182P (vfr only) checks every box and we run around $125/hr (fuel,mx reserve,hangar,ins). With kids and most likely with adults youll stop at least once so the speed advantage of a Mooney over a 182 becomes less of a direct advantage. The Mooney will burn less fuel though :) But in the 182 you get both doors and pretty much the most room, both shoulder to shoulder and rear passenger leg room. Dont underestimate the room inside if you will be flying trips with all seats filled. I believe you could eventually find a vfr mid time engine example right at or just above your range but it will have original paint and interior.

As another poster said your budget is probably too low. Probably $25k too low.

Also as a newbie that 500-600nm trip seems almost romantic right about now. But the week before you go youll stress wx and probably cancel 85% of the time in the winter (low ifr, icing) and 50% of the time in the summer (storms, etc).

We fly to Grandmas (~200nm) an our 10yo daughter does just fine unless its hot summer chop then she starts to feel uneasy but makes it work. I know she could make 300nm now. But unless she were to sleep i think 400nm would be pushing it. The headphones get old/heavy for a kid. The tablet use gets old, etc. Then thoughts turn to tummy or bathroom. That can also happen with with adult passengers, especially those that dont fly much.
Click to expand...


I've been looking at C182s, and they look like they check all of my boxes, I absolutely admit that. Also the high wing would be great for flyins for camping under the wing. I also like the idea of being able to get in on both sides. The only problem is that the backseat "looks" small in all of the photos and videos I have found. Do you have any measurements you can give me for reference of size?
 
Tricorter said:
Lol, My wife thinks that's where I should go. Her parents are....large people. To be honest I kinda liked it anyway, but once again, by the time I can afford one of those they'll probably.....be flying with the angels....(trying to be as nice as humanly possible here) Then it'll just me me, her and a kid or two so no need for a Six.
Click to expand...

A six makes a great 4-passenger airplane.
 
Ravioli said:
[Seriously - A36's are awesome if they fit your budget]
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Agreed - and it's not going to to be close to what the OP asked for in terms of operating cost.

I, too, would look at a Dakota, a Comanche, or a Cherokee Six.
 
Tricorter said:
I've been looking at C182s, and they look like they check all of my boxes, I absolutely admit that. The only problem is that the backseat "looks" small in all of the photos and videos I have found. Do you have any measurements you can give me for reference of size?
Click to expand...

I'm in a partnership with a 182, and don't have exact measurements avail at the moment. But am flying it later today, so will take a tape measure and report back tomorrow.

What I do know is the 182 is 4" wider than a 172. Probably about 4" more leg room and a few inches more head room.
 
Tricorter said:
I've been looking at C182s, and they look like they check all of my boxes, I absolutely admit that. Also the high wing would be great for flyins for camping under the wing. I also like the idea of being able to get in on both sides. The only problem is that the backseat "looks" small in all of the photos and videos I have found. Do you have any measurements you can give me for reference of size?
Click to expand...
Right now I'm about as far as I can be from my plane, our crappy hangar door and all our snow and ice. The dive boat leaves in 5min :) Gonna keep it that way for several days. When I get bsck I can measure for you. Or hopefully another 182 owner with quicker access to their 182 can help out.

I think you will be shock regarding the size of the 2nd row seats of all 4 seat airplanes! I can't name one right now that would have anything spacious in the rear. A 6 seater will have larger 2nd row. The 182 back seat will be like the 172, probably a bit more shoulder room and tons of leg room. Hopefully someone will list the 4 seat planes with larger bsck seats/room than the 182. Maybe the SR20, SR22 and TTX have larger 2nd row...but another price range.
 
Sinistar said:
Right now I'm about as far as I can be from my plane, our crappy hangar door and all our snow and ice. The dive boat leaves in 5min :) Gonna keep it that way for several days. When I get bsck I can measure for you. Or hopefully another 182 owner with quicker access to their 182 can help out.

I think you will be shock regarding the size of the 2nd row seats of all 4 seat airplanes! I can't name one right now that would have anything spacious in the rear. A 6 seater will have larger 2nd row. The 182 back seat will be like the 172, probably a bit more shoulder room and tons of leg room. Hopefully someone will list the 4 seat planes with larger bsck seats/room than the 182. Maybe the SR20, SR22 and TTX have larger 2nd row...but another price range.
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I Can! A Cardinal :D

I'm 6'3" and I have all the leg room I need and more back there.
 
For the OP...the 182 and Cardinal design does give lots of leg room for the second row. There is more leg room in our 182 (when the pilot pulls up the seat to fly) than most 4dr cars!!! Since the pilot and copilot seat travel so far, 2nd row ingess and egress is pretty darn good...and the door on each side surely doesn't hurt.

But the rear seats are still "small". They are not that wide. Two "wide" people back there would be crammed in. Two kids...lots of room. A kid and a parent, just fine.

Ours has decent headroom but to give that headroom the seat bottom is low. I'm about 6'2 and have ridden back there. I have a ton of leg room. But the seat is just low enough that my knees are higher than my waist. That isn't comfortable for some people.

It would seem the Cardinal and 182 are the 4 seaters with the most rear passenger leg room and cabin width. The seats are still small though. Plus they both have two doors.

If you are really gonna fly 4 people a lot then rear seat room and 2 doors sure don't hurt. But if the 500mile family of 4 flight is the rare exception then focus more on the W&B, flying characteristics you desire, etc.
 
Rockwell Commander 112/114 probably at the top of the “widest cabin” race in the 4-seater category. Not likely finding many in the sub $70K price range though. They’re roughly comparable to a Comanche 260 in terms of performance. They have two doors and are low-wing to boot!
 
Cricket1 said:
I'm in a partnership with a 182, and don't have exact measurements avail at the moment. But am flying it later today, so will take a tape measure and report back tomorrow.

What I do know is the 182 is 4" wider than a 172. Probably about 4" more leg room and a few inches more head room.
Click to expand...

Thank you I appreciate that!
 
SoonerAviator said:
Rockwell Commander 112/114 probably at the top of the “widest cabin” race in the 4-seater category. Not likely finding many in the sub $70K price range though. They’re roughly comparable to a Comanche 260 in terms of performance. They have two doors and are low-wing to boot!
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I'll take a look, Thank you! Do you happen to know what the operating cost is?
 
Rgbeard said:
^ don't forget the wing lifetime issues.
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Well, the wing lifetime issues are a moot point as I don’t know of any that reach that point. Most of the 114s have limits around 14K hours. Not a whole lot of any SEL airframes hitting that mark. The 112s had the lower 8-10K wing life limits, but the 112 doesn’t really meet his mission requirements.
 
182, 182RG (which are one of the few aircraft out there currently pricing decently), Comanche, Saratoga/Lance (but the prices are steep). For the combination of full tank UL and cost, that's about it. A Bonanza can do it too, but the purchase price is again steep.

Jumpmaster said:
Obvious answer on POA is a Bo. But a Grumman Tiger may be a candidate if the pax are not too large.
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The best UL you are getting out of a Tiger is in the low 900s (ours is 915). That is before fuel, so remaining UL is 600. They do well at max gross, in CG, but you are 200 short of what the OP wants for full fuel UL. I will say that the back seat is surprisingly comfortable and I can easily see 4 real sized people being comfortable in the airplane, though the weight will require fuel trades.
 
I have a Cherokee 140 in your price range also a Zenith 601 HD taildragger with a 130 horsepower Honda conversion. Both those well under $30k. Might also have a American Yankee AA1. All flying aircraft in annual.

Edit: this is a response to a post in the classified airplane forum that I mistakenly placed here.
 
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