Rebalancing a rudder

Huckster79

Huckster79

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Huckster79
How much is involved with this and likely expense?

I have a Cessna 140. The stripes are orinal in spirit but was a "homeowner" job, probably better than I could do but not pro grade.

I have a friend that does vinyl work, has done some awesome wraps on expirimentals..

He will help me restripe mine in vinyl.. I want to stay original in spirit, but change from blue to the original red...

But my verticle stabilizer and rudder have this blue fan design on it, it would have to go... and then a wide flat strip of vinyl would go horizontal accross both surfaces... So that would involve rudder rebalancing, correct? How big of a todo is that?
 
Vinyl on a fabric control surface? IMHO I would think paint would be better.

I know were you can get a C-140 dirt cheap. Guy covered wings, then had a fire on right wing. Replaced the right wing. Flew it to a local airport sight seeing and to visit friends. Upon return to airport found someone had damaged I think the right wing. Took wings off had plane shipped back to airport and said "I'm done with this plane".

Repair the wing, fly it home and you got lots of spare parts or a second plane to fly.
 
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Are you a member of the International Cessna 120-140 club yet?
If not, why not?
If you want specific questions answered about your plane, they're the people to go to, they know the plane.

https://www.cessna120-140.org/
 
To balance a rudder it must be removed, placed on balance points, and a balance beam used to see where the balance point is.
When you bring the rudder to me, I usually do the job for 50 bucks.
 
AKBill said:
Vinyl on a fabric control surface? IMHO I would think paint would be better.

I know were you can get a C-140 dirt cheap. Guy covered wings, then had a fire on right wing. Replaced the right wing. Flew it to a local airport sight seeing and to visit friends. Upon return to airport found someone had damaged I think the right wing. Took wings off had plane shipped back to airport and said "I'm done with this plane".

Repair the wing, fly it home and you got lots of spare parts or a second plane to fly.
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How cheap is dirt? and where is it?
 
Tom-D said:
How cheap is dirt? and where is it?
Click to expand...

I will talk to Jeremy and get a number for you if you like. It's in Juneau. I am sure I can arrange hangar space to repair wing and make airworthy for a flight to the lower 48.

I can get SMOH on engine and airframe time. Pictures if you like as well.

Fun project, I would be available on the local side to assist as I hate to see good planes die on the ramp. My good friend Joe who's hangar will most likely be used for the repair is an old school tube and fabric A&P/IA.
Joes hanager.jpg joes hanagar 1.jpg joes hanager 2.jpg
Hangar is very well equipped. Everything from mill, lath, bead blaster, compressor, welder (mig,tig), acetylene torch/welding, sheet metal shear/break, hand tools well equipped.

Tom, if you would like to journey to Juneau this summer we can put you up at our house for a week or so when work is being done, no cost to you. I would even take a few days off work to help out.
 
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AKBill said:
Tom, if you would like to journey to Juneau this summer we can put you up at our house for a week or so when work is being done, no cost to you. I would even take a few days off work to help out.
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Thanks for the offer, It would be great to do that. But it won't be me this summer.

Friends are always looking for projects. / cheap aircraft. and they always ask "where how much"
 
Tom-D said:
To balance a rudder it must be removed, placed on balance points, and a balance beam used to see where the balance point is.
When you bring the rudder to me, I usually do the job for 50 bucks.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tom- that’s what I was looking for a rough generalization, as being ownership is still very new to me- I still don’t know what seems simple is very complex and pricey and what things aren’t. Appreciate it
 
champ driver said:
Are you a member of the International Cessna 120-140 club yet?
If not, why not?
If you want specific questions answered about your plane, they're the people to go to, they know the plane.

https://www.cessna120-140.org/
Click to expand...

Yes I am a member, joined before I bought.

I just didn't think this question was very model specific. There are plenty planes people may have that are thinking similar idea of mine, idk... I didn't think it too model specific..
 
Huckster79 said:
Yes I am a member, joined before I bought.

I just didn't think this question was very model specific. There are plenty planes people may have that are thinking similar idea of mine, idk... I didn't think it too model specific..
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All the rudders I know of on small aircraft are done the way I described.
 
It's only an issue with balanced control surfaces, which I don't think the C-140 has. So painting it would fall under "preventative maintenance" which a pilot who is the aircraft owner may do.
 
Dana said:
It's only an issue with balanced control surfaces, which I don't think the C-140 has. So painting it would fall under "preventative maintenance" which a pilot who is the aircraft owner may do.
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Not true,, it is a flight control. it is required to be balanced after any maintenance that may alter the weight and balance.
FAR 43-A
(xiii) Changes to the wing or to fixed or movable control surfaces which affect flutter and vibration characteristics.
 
Tom-D said:
Not true,, it is a flight control. it is required to be balanced after any maintenance that may alter the weight and balance.
FAR 43-A
(xiii) Changes to the wing or to fixed or movable control surfaces which affect flutter and vibration characteristics.
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So this mentions wing... so would approval be needed if we put the N number on upper right wing like the old days and wrap the wing tips with vinyl matching the striping? The wing tip colors seem to bust up the monotony of all the white...
 
Huckster79 said:
So this mentions wing... so would approval be needed if we put the N number on upper right wing like the old days and wrap the wing tips with vinyl matching the striping? The wing tip colors seem to bust up the monotony of all the white...
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I don't believe wrapping a wing tip would constitute a change that would make the wing flutter.
as for the large numbers, that becomes the paint system of the aircraft.
 
Tom-D said:
I don't believe wrapping a wing tip would constitute a change that would make the wing flutter.
as for the large numbers, that becomes the paint system of the aircraft.
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Out of newbie ownership ignorance what would cause a wing to flutter?
 
Huckster79 said:
Out of newbie ownership ignorance what would cause a wing to flutter?
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pretty much nothing. flight controls different story.

we do have rules about wing covering system and what we can do with them.
 
Tom-D said:
Not true,, it is a flight control. it is required to be balanced after any maintenance that may alter the weight and balance.
FAR 43-A
(xiii) Changes to the wing or to fixed or movable control surfaces which affect flutter and vibration characteristics.
Click to expand...

But as I said the C-140 rudder is not a balanced control surface. According to the Cessna service newsletter linked above the balance for the C-120/140 rudder and elevator is "none specified", which should be obvious by looking at it (nothing forward of the hinge line, no place for a balance weight). Besides the section xiii you quoted above is under "major alterations". The appropriate section is:
(c)Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
...
(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings, tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required.
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Note that it doesn't restrict it to fixed tail group surfaces.
 
Tom-D said:
Yes there is..
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Then please explain where and how do you add weights to a steel tube and fabric rudder or elevator like on my Champ. The rudder has an aerodynamic balance, but there's nothing forward of the hinges on the elevator.
 
Read the section under "Control surface balance requirement"
All flight control surfaces have weight limits. to check these limits you'd use a balance beam, like the one in the SB.
Individual requirements are in the aircraft maintenance manual.
There are aircraft like the 120/140 and the champ where all that is done is check the torque that is developed on the stand. these are read as inch pounds just like a torque wrench.

to change the balance of a rag and tube flight control, you simply add lead washers held in place by screws into the tube itself.
 
AKBill said:
I will talk to Jeremy and get a number for you if you like. It's in Juneau. I am sure I can arrange hangar space to repair wing and make airworthy for a flight to the lower 48.

I can get SMOH on engine and airframe time. Pictures if you like as well.

Fun project, I would be available on the local side to assist as I hate to see good planes die on the ramp. My good friend Joe who's hangar will most likely be used for the repair is an old school tube and fabric A&P/IA.
View attachment 71259 View attachment 71260 View attachment 71261
Hangar is very well equipped. Everything from mill, lath, bead blaster, compressor, welder (mig,tig), acetylene torch/welding, sheet metal shear/break, hand tools well equipped.

Tom, if you would like to journey to Juneau this summer we can put you up at our house for a week or so when work is being done, no cost to you. I would even take a few days off work to help out.
Click to expand...
Nice setup. As a 40+ year machine shop guy - please don't leave the chuck key in the lathe chuck. Bad things can happen!
 
Balance a rudder after applying stripes? Who does that?

Oh, the dreaded rudder flutter!
 
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