Reasonably Priced 172

 
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bnt83 said:
:rofl:

The "D" means that it incorporates changes that the "C" does not have.

According to note 5 all O-300 have dampers.

C145 series engines equipped with dampered crankshafts are identified by suffix letter "D" following the engine serial number which denotes one each 5th and 6th order dampers. O-300 series engines are also equipped with crankshaft incorporating one each 5th and 6th order dampers.​


Note 6:​

O-300-A is similar to C145-2 except parts material and ignition component substitutions. O-300-B is similar to O-300-A except incorporates crankcase and crankshaft provisions for use of a hydraulically controllable propeller from the engine oil pressure. O-300-C is identical to O-300-A except for propeller flange provision as indicated. O-300-D is similar to O-300-C except for provisions for Continental right angle automatic engagement starter drive which incorporates a vacuum pump drive. O-300-E is similar to O-300-D except for incorporation of governor drive pad and crankshaft provisions to supply governor oil to propeller​


And Note 7:

C145-2, -2H, -2HP; O-300-A, -B: SAE-AS127 No. 3 flange O-300 C, -D, -E: ARP502 Type I flange 4-7/8 in. o.d. by .31 in. thick with six ½ bolt holes in 4 in. diameter circle. O-300-E has provisions for transfer of governor oil to propeller.​
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read page 6 of the overhaul manual para (d) last sentence.

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/MaintenanceManuals/X30013/X30013.pdf

longer crank throw than those of model C-125. (Refer to Section 1 for dimensions. ) Early production C-145 crankshafts had no counterweights and were identified by a 1/4 in. diameter hole drilled between propeller bolt bushings through the propeller flange. Current production C-145 crankshafts have two floating coun- terweights loosely pinned to extensions each Side of the cheek between No's it and 2 craukpi..o.s. 'The na- tural .frequency of oscillation of the weight on the notched crankshaft extension is adjusted, by size of its bushings, to dampen out the fifth overtone of crank- vibration, while the other counterweight dampens t"~ sixth overtone, preventing excessive vibration of the crankshaft gear and wear of gear teeth. C-125 crank- shafts do not have or require the dynamic damper weights. Crankshafts of model C-145-2H have an oil inlet hole through the front main journal, whose hollow interior has a permanent plug at the rear and a re- movable plug at the front, providing an oil passage to the shaft end for hydraulic actuation of the controllable propeller. The letter "D" in a C-145 serial No. de- notes a dampened shaft, ,

My mistake was to refer to the type certificate rather than the engine descriptions by Continental.

The "D" in the engine serial number is the "D" I should have referenced.
 
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bnt83 said:
Depends, are you going to call it repaired or overhauled?


Overhauled goes a lot farther. Case thru bolts are a couple grand alone. Stater, starter adapter, mags, alternator, baffle seal, carburetor, and the list goes on and on and....


http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SB97-6B.pdf
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The goal is to make money. Would the plane be worth buying overhauling the engine and reselling?
 
Geico266 said:
The goal is to make money. Would the plane be worth buying overhauling the engine and reselling?
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Not that it is the end-all-be-all, but goto AOPA's Vref online tool and put in "0" for engine time and see what the value is. While you're at it, you could check the box for "needs interior" unless you're planning on selling this bird to your local hemophiliac.
 
 
Alexb2000 said:
As a buyer I'd be looking at the 205 or 177 you listed first. Depending on need these can serve a person well after training.

Every time one of these discussions comes up I am amazed about the buyers market out there.
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+1

I think it's almost overwhelming the diversity of aircraft you can buy for around $50K. 205 is a great airplane. I like 177's but have never flown the RG, I'm sure its sweet too.

But to drop $45-50k on a 1967 O-300 powered 172 with old radios seems like pouring sand into a big hole. There are far nicer airplanes with far more performance available for essentially the same $.
 
Is 40R really worth 50 grand? I realize the paint and interior are pristine, but I'd want newer radios, and I'm not a fan of the push/pull switches and toggle switch flaps on the early 172. I'd pass on this one, unless the price was 25-30 percent less.
 
livitup said:
Is 40R really worth 50 grand? I realize the paint and interior are pristine, but I'd want newer radios, and I'm not a fan of the push/pull switches and toggle switch flaps on the early 172. I'd pass on this one, unless the price was 25-30 percent less.
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I was just pointing out that that 40R has all the work done, and near the price of the airplane the OP posted + an engine overhaul. The OP post would still have original paint & interior with the old radios. Then the downtime to overhaul etc..
 
livitup said:
Is 40R really worth 50 grand? I realize the paint and interior are pristine, but I'd want newer radios, and I'm not a fan of the push/pull switches and toggle switch flaps on the early 172. I'd pass on this one, unless the price was 25-30 percent less.
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20L (Red Beast?)
2558 TTAF/E, Cont O-300D, #1-60hr, #2-240hr, #3-914hr, #4-252hr, #5-571hr-piston/rings, #6-571hr-honed/rings, carb 170 SOH - Compressions -78,80,75,75,73,69 - 171 SPOH, Runs Great, Good Paint, Glass, Plastics, & Headliner. Collins AMR 350 Audio Panel, KX-175 W/G/S, KX-170B, KT-78A Transponder, Panel Mounted Garmin 496, PS2-1000 4-pl intercom, Avionics Master, Rosen type sun visors, Interior LED LTG, Pilot & Co-Pilot PTT, Heated Pitot, EGT, CHT, Hobbs, Clock, Wheel Pants. NKDH. Very Complete Logs. $24,900

Note engine time ^


40R

RESTORATION 2012 New paint. All new leather interior new seat belts, ultra leather headliner. New tires, brakes, sealed battery, plane power alternator conversion. June annual with STC's: wing tips, strobes, gap seals, JPI fuel monitor, Great Lake Aero tinted 1/4" windows. Ram horn yokes. Panel mounted Air Gizmo for a Garmin Aera 560 GPS with data cable hooked to PS Engineering 7000CD audio panel. . Just purchased 182, wife says can't keep both</SPAN>
Flap gap seals
Fresh engine OH (35 hours)
New Leather Interior
Leather Seats
Ultra Leather Headliner
Leather/Ultra Leather Side Panels
New Seat Belts with all new hardware
New Carpet
 
bnt83 said:
Depends, are you going to call it repaired or overhauled?


Overhauled goes a lot farther. Case thru bolts are a couple grand alone. Stater, starter adapter, mags, alternator, baffle seal, carburetor, and the list goes on and on and....


http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SB97-6B.pdf
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That is a service bulletin, are we required to comply with service bulletins in part 91?

yes or no

the requirements for a 0-300- is here

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/MaintenanceManuals/X30013/X30013.pdf
 
Tom-D said:
That is a service bulletin, are we required to comply with service bulletins in part 91?

yes or no

the requirements for a 0-300- is here

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/MaintenanceManuals/X30013/X30013.pdf
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My understanding is no you don't have to comply with them, unless it's a MSB which usually would be accompanied by an AD pointing to it. Much like the MSB569A that pertains to the counterweight crankshaft Lycos. The SB directs the replacement of the crank, the AD essentially points to the SB.
 
Geico266 said:
The goal is to make money. Would the plane be worth buying overhauling the engine and reselling?
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Common misbelief, some simply want a reliable aircraft to fly, and realize that it will cost them money.
 
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bnt83 said:
No. I thought there was a link between the Overhaul Manual, FAR 43.2 and Service Bulletins but I'm not seeing it.
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Many of the newer engines that the factory still supports have a paragraph that says all service bulletins are required to be complied with at overhauled.

this is a blatant attempt at the company lawyers to sell parts. And the very reason the FAA does not allow S/Bs to be required in part 91.

So what did the factories do? they re-wrote their manuals to include the service bulletins as a portion of the overhaul,

But

the factory no longer supports the 0-300, and thus did not re-write the O/H manual.
 
Tom-D said:
Many of the newer engines that the factory still supports have a paragraph that says all service bulletins are required to be complied with at overhauled.

this is a blatant attempt at the company lawyers to sell parts. And the very reason the FAA does not allow S/Bs to be required in part 91.

So what did the factories do? they re-wrote their manuals to include the service bulletins as a portion of the overhaul,

Bu
the factory no longer supports the 0-300, and thus did not re-write the O/H manual.
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Agreed. There was a letter defining "current" as used in part 43 performance rules for manuals saying it meant at the time of manufacture someplace. I'm sure you've seen it. Don't know if that's still a good reference or if the FAA reconsider that position?
 
RotorAndWing said:
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8620_2A.pdf
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What are we saying in Paragraph (b)
b. The language of § 43.13(a) clearly provides a person with three permissible options when performing maintenance, alterations, or preventive maintenance on a product. Section 43.13(a) does not provide an order of precedence for these three options. Further, although § 43.13(a) does not specifically address SB’s or SL’s, an OEM may legitimately incorporate an SB or SL into one of its maintenance manuals by reference. If it does so, the data specified, and the method, technique, or practice contained therein, may be acceptable to the Administrator. However, unless any method, technique, or practice prescribed by an OEM in any of its documents is specifically mandated by a regulatory document, such as Airworthiness Directive (AD), or specific regulatory language such as that in § 43.15(b); those methods, techniques, or practices are not mandatory.

Do I, or Do I not, have to comply with the service bulletins when signing off an engine as overhauled IAW the Manufacturers maintenance manual when that manual states that they are required?
 
No.

unless any method, technique, or practice prescribed by an OEM in any of its documents is specifically mandated by a regulatory document
 
bnt83 said:
No.

unless any method, technique, or practice prescribed by an OEM in any of its documents is specifically mandated by a regulatory document
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Now that we have settled that, tell me again how much the self-employed A&P can save you by not throwing away good parts and using them again.

Such as
$1000 worth of case thru bolts.
$500 worth of case and cylinder hold down nuts.
$2300 crank gear
$2200 Cam gear.

just for starters of course.
 
Tom-D said:
Now that we have settled that, tell me again how much the self-employed A&P can save you by not throwing away good parts and using them again.

Such as
$1000 worth of case thru bolts.
$500 worth of case and cylinder hold down nuts.
$2300 crank gear
$2200 Cam gear.

just for starters of course.
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O300 cam gear & crank gear affected by the SB? Thru bolts are common to all engines in the SB...

I'd have to verify, but I think it says steel parts missing cad plate are to be discarded... First thought is thru bolt condition
 
Unless mag particle inspect the thru bolts and re-plate them...
 
bnt83 said:
Unless mag particle inspect the thru bolts and re-plate them...
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They do get discarded when they look like this
 

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Believe it or not, these cleaned up. Got re-plated and will be used again, Yes they were crack checked by the FPI method.

A complete set of 6 (5 different p/ns are $1102.61 plus freight, used from a salvage yards about $150 +-
 

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Tom-D said:
Yes they were crack checked by the FPI method.
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Not trying to be difficult, but with steel parts MPI can catch some cracks that FPI might miss. With non magnetic stainless and nonferrous metals you have no choice except FPI, of course, but everywhere that MPI will work I'd use it.
 
Morne said:
Not trying to be difficult, but with steel parts MPI can catch some cracks that FPI might miss. With non magnetic stainless and nonferrous metals you have no choice except FPI, of course, but everywhere that MPI will work I'd use it.
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Zyglo® Liquid Fluorescent Penetrant Inspection Applications
Zyglo® is the preferred penetrant inspection method for the extremely sensitive fluorescent detection of cracks and surface discontinuities in ferrous & non-ferrous test materials.

It is used in a magna flux machine.

http://www.magnaflux.com/Products/PenetrantInspection/ZygloFluorescent/tabid/99/Default.aspx
 
I was asking myself the same question if FPI is an acceptabe alternate to MPI.

I have seen a few repair drawings from Cessna and HBC that gave the option of either. Like when manufacting a steel bolt and steel bushings to repair a clevis type fitting with elongated holes on a horizontal stabilizer.
 
bnt83 said:
I was asking myself the same question if FPI is an acceptabe alternate to MPI.

I have seen a few repair drawings from Cessna and HBC that gave the option of either. Like when manufacting a steel bolt and steel bushings to repair a clevis type fitting with elongated holes on a horizontal stabilizer.
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The place I use for inspections use a Florescent agent in a Magnetic application, with a black light for development/inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
The place I use for inspections use a Florescent agent in a Magnetic application, with a black light for development/inspection.
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Hence the word "florescent" in florecent penatrant inspection for those who don't know.

The other penetrant inspection does not need a blacklight nor is it as sensitive as the florescent variety.
 
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