Really bad PA46 accident

Wow, that was carrying serious energy, and it sounded like he was making power. You have any thoughts? Can the trim runaway so hard you can't overcome it?
 
They say that much power above the flight idle stop will hold it into a flat spin.
 
kmead said:
They say that much power above the flight idle stop will hold it into a flat spin.
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It's hard to tell with that video and the lighting, maybe, but I'm not convinced I'm seeing a spin. It takes more than a couple of rotations for a spin to go flat.
 
Ouch, that was bad.
Wonder if it anything similar to the Malibu that lost a rudder and went into a flat spin near Paris Texas a little while back. :dunno:
 
Can't tell what happened.....****ty day though no matter how you serve it up.
 
Henning said:
Wow, that was carrying serious energy, and it sounded like he was making power. You have any thoughts? Can the trim runaway so hard you can't overcome it?
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I've tried that in a PA46 and no it was not a problem for me and I am by no means super man. That said you want the gear warning, autopilot, and trim circuit breakers marked for quick identification and pull. Not hard to get to from the left seat...pretty damn hard from the right seat.

But if you're one of those autopilot guys thats scared ****less in IMC without the autopilot and the trim suddenly runs away on you...you'll probably just switch to "watch yourself die instead of take action" mode..and it won't take much time at all before its game over. Quite a few killed in Malibus because of that.
 
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Pilot incapacitated?
Control failure?
Kamikaze?

Either way there isn't much we can figure out based on that video alone.
 
Henning said:
Nope. To me it looks like he was having control issues.
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Well obvious he was having control issues, the question is why. The three scenarios I presented could result in the same type of flight path, so I'm not really sure why you disagree.
 
MachFly said:
Well obvious he was having control issues, the question is why. The three scenarios I presented could result in the same type of flight path, so I'm not really sure why you disagree.
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By 'nope' I meant 'nope, can't tell much.' To me it looks like he teetered back and forth on the roll axis which made it seem kind of like he had slack in the controls. I never worked on one so I have no clue as how the controls are rigged and what can happen.:dunno:
 
Henning said:
By 'nope' I meant 'nope, can't tell much.' To me it looks like he teetered back and forth on the roll axis which made it seem kind of like he had slack in the controls. I never worked on one so I have no clue as how the controls are rigged and what can happen.:dunno:
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Gotcha, that makes more sense.
 
Kevin, is there a point in the cable routing that if it loses integrity, you loose tension on aileron and elevator controls?
 
:confused:

I'm not sure why seeing the wings wobble automatically leads you to talking about sloppy cables.
 
narchee said:
:confused:

I'm not sure why seeing the wings wobble automatically leads you to talking about sloppy cables.
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Because there are only so many reasons you would see that happen, especially the way it appears the motion happend. In a plane with a running engine in not horrible conditions, you just don't lose control like that without something turning loose.

Granted, I am applying only what I see in a video that I can barely kinda make out what is happening, maybe. I am not claiming this is what happened, just saying out loud what I see leads me to question.
 
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250lb pilot slumped forward stroked out could have the same effect as he bounced around....
 
If the ailerons had no tension, they're not just going to flop around wildly and corkscrew your plane into the ground.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
If the ailerons had no tension, they're not just going to flop around wildly and corkscrew your plane into the ground.
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No, but when you have slack and you use the rudder and catching it at the end of the aileron throw, you're going to generate a similar effect. I don't see the plane cork screwing. I saw it flop one way, then the other. I can't tell if he had any pitch control or not. The only control I see evidence in action of is the rudder. However, I may be totally misperceiving what I see, the video is far from a quality I will claim a solid observation of the events from.
 
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If anything, it looks like he held in a falling leaf stall to the ground like AF447, that's what it really strikes me as. Ice and altitude hold would explain that..., and the motion and pitch apparent to me are what I get in a Falling Leaf.
 
Geneva approach is on LiveATC. The transmissions that relate to the accident are on the tail of the 1030-1100Z / start of the 1100-1130Z recordings. You'll need better French than mine to figure out exactly what's happening.

Crash site is only a few miles from the airport.

METAR closest to the time of the accident: 301050Z 17014KT 9999 VCSH FEW015 SCT030 BKN040 01/M01 Q0987 TEMPO 3000 SHSN
 
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