Real Estate Prices in Montana

NealRomeoGolf

NealRomeoGolf

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I was browsing housing prices in Montana for reasons that will not be disclosed, and I was shocked at what I was seeing. My current real estate is in Central Illinois so that is what I currently compare against, but in the past I have owned homes in Houston, Dallas, an hour north of Indy and the Central Valley of California.

In this particular case, I was looking at home prices outside of Bozeman. All 1500 sq ft houses were basically listed over $300k. I have double the square footage in IL for that price. There is an 892 sq ft shack listed for $200k! Montana isn't exactly overrun with residents, so what is driving real estate there? Lack of land to build on (aka, the govt owns all of it)? Expensive labor to build there? Outdoor paradise driving up the value? Access to National Parks?

@GRG55 I think this is your neck of the woods? Blew my mind.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I was browsing housing prices in Montana for reasons that will not be disclosed, and I was shocked at what I was seeing. My current real estate is in Central Illinois so that is what I currently compare against, but in the past I have owned homes in Houston, Dallas, an hour north of Indy and the Central Valley of California.

In this particular case, I was looking at home prices outside of Bozeman. All 1500 sq ft houses were basically listed over $300k. I have double the square footage in IL for that price. There is an 892 sq ft shack listed for $200k! Montana isn't exactly overrun with residents, so what is driving real estate there? Lack of land to build on (aka, the govt owns all of it)? Expensive labor to build there? Outdoor paradise driving up the value? Access to National Parks?

@GRG55 I think this is your neck of the woods? Blew my mind.
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Why is divorce so expensive ? Because it's so worth it !


As for MT, it's probably an influx of Californians ;-)
 
Oil, coal, or something else nearby?
 
You picked Montana's most expensive city IIRC.

Go check out Great Falls.. or damn near anywhere else in the state except maybe Kalispell or Billings.

I thought there was some tax advantage for high net worth retirees there, but I'm not hep to what the particulars are. Maybe it's some vagary of the estate tax scheme, same as what draws people to Florida.

I have a client who lives just outside of Bozo and visit him periodically. I don't understand the way of life, but clearly it is attractive to some. :) The winds will level up your crosswind game. In the 12 years he's lived there, I don't think he's even gone to Yellowstone. He just likes to ride around on quads and shoot things. :loco:
 
892 sq ft for 200k? Jump on it before it goes! Another 200k in remodels and code updates, it might be liveable.

- From an AK perspective

(AK has mostly junk for that price per sqft)
 
Mountain vistas, trout streams, wildlife galore, open spaces, big sky, low population density, back country airstrips, etc.

Who wants to pay extra for that?
 
SToL said:
........ is because, well, it's not Central Illinois.
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Damn, 8 whole posts before that jab came out. POA is slippin' this summer! :D

Frankly, the boonies of the midwest provide a good place to have a flying hobby. One of the strongest supports to my avocation was the remote location itself. It allowed me to turn 10 hour drives into 4 then 3, with a lowly Warrior then Arrow. Plus an excuse to go fly, since the family needed to come up for air before losing their civilized nature lol.

These days being in the metro and closer to everything, these incentives are not there as much. That plus the difficulties of securing storage in the metro make it a worse bang for the buck than back in the boonies. All in all I wouldn't change it, but just saying there are merits to proverbial central IL on the flying front.
 
Just a heads up. Montana and Idaho are HUGE either move to, or buy second home states for Northern Californians (ie crap loads of tech money). If you lean left, you go to Montana. If you lean right, you go to Idaho. I'm not kidding. These two states for whatever the reason are very trendy.
 
Dav8or said:
Just a heads up. Montana and Idaho are HUGE either move to, or buy second home states for Northern Californians (ie crap loads of tech money). If you lean left, you go to Montana. If you lean right, you go to Idaho. I'm not kidding. These two states for whatever the reason are very trendy.
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Unfortunately this is true. It's amazing how many cars I see with CA plates. I just got my 2019 property assessment and my home valuation went up 20% in one year...
 
Pretty sad. Same phenomenon happens in my neck of the woods with the economic refugees from New Jersey, New York. Kalifornia is just New Jersey with a tan. The increase in property taxes will make things difficult for the locals.
One of the benefits of a recession is that it slows down the migration.
 
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the only sad thing is the state of affairs where people have to wish for a recession to feel like they can retain whatever lot in life they feel entitled to. talk about barking up the wrong tree. And i wont go further cuz it will invariably get political, but theres a LOT more to unpack under the guise of complaining about high earners and equity refugees punching you in the mouth and displacing you no longer being a hypothetical strawman in your own life. Having bootstraps chucked at your head while youve been busy doing the same to others must really be a disconcerting experience. cognitive dissonance in the american proletariat is no joke though.

BL, we only deserve what we collectively allow. the chickens of crony capitalism and regulatory capture have come home to roost, and denial is not a river in Egypt. aaand i digress....
 
hindsight2020 said:
the only sad thing is the state of affairs where people have to wish for a recession to feel like they can retain whatever lot in life they feel entitled to. talk about barking up the wrong tree. And i wont go further cuz it will invariably get political, but theres a LOT more to unpack under the guise of complaining about high earners and equity refugees punching you in the mouth and displacing you no longer being a hypothetical strawman in your own life. Having bootstraps chucked at your head while youve been busy doing the same to others must really be a disconcerting experience. cognitive dissonance in the american proletariat is no joke though.

BL, we only deserve what we collectively allow. the chickens of crony capitalism and regulatory capture have come home to roost, and denial is not a river in Egypt. aaand i digress....
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IBTL with a ^5
 
hindsight2020 said:
the only sad thing is the state of affairs where people have to wish for a recession to feel like they can retain whatever lot in life they feel entitled to. talk about barking up the wrong tree. And i wont go further cuz it will invariably get political, but theres a LOT more to unpack under the guise of complaining about high earners and equity refugees punching you in the mouth and displacing you no longer being a hypothetical strawman in your own life. Having bootstraps chucked at your head while youve been busy doing the same to others must really be a disconcerting experience. cognitive dissonance in the american proletariat is no joke though.

BL, we only deserve what we collectively allow. the chickens of crony capitalism and regulatory capture have come home to roost, and denial is not a river in Egypt. aaand i digress....
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I love the bootsraps reference!

How dare they use the opportunity available to them by my voting habits! They better not build a giant hangar and runway! NIMBY!
 
Eric Stoltz said:
I love the bootsraps reference!

How dare they use the opportunity available to them by my voting habits! They better not build a giant hangar and runway! NIMBY!
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Before ‘voting habits’ comes just habits. Then, properly understood and manipulated, comes the vote.
 
luvflyin said:
Californication is bi partisan. Oregon was going through this back in the 60’s
https://www.ebay.com/i/173863959276?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fi%2F173863959276%3Fchn%3Dps%26mkevt%3D1%26mkrid%3D711-117182-37290-0%26mkcid%3D2%26itemid%3D173863959276%26targetid%3D475515045501%26device%3Dt%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9033607%26poi%3D21170%26campaignid%3D1669934846%26adgroupid%3D65058350619%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-475515045501%26abcId%3D1139296%26merchantid%3D113441419%26gclid%3DEAIaIQobChMI85S2xY7L4gIVkcBkCh2HMgH6EAQYBCABEgKddPD_BwE%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1993465710439%26rvr_ts%3D18cfaa8016b0a9ccc9251c02fffd0bfa
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And native Californians complain that the only reason their state turned into such a morass is the fact that all those damn midwesterners moved there in the 50s and 60s.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Mountain vistas, trout streams, wildlife galore, open spaces, big sky, low population density, back country airstrips, etc.

Who wants to pay extra for that?
Click to expand...

Those with extra. And those with extra seem to have a lot more extra recently
 
Lived in California for 37 years. One day after retirement June 2016 and that .....place.... was in my rearview mirror. Traded up in regards to standard of living here in TN. Sold in So Cal for $400 sq/ft and built on 10 acres at $130 sq/ft. Plus no state income tax

So I bought a plane too lol
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I was browsing housing prices in Montana for reasons that will not be disclosed, and I was shocked at what I was seeing. My current real estate is in Central Illinois so that is what I currently compare against, but in the past I have owned homes in Houston, Dallas, an hour north of Indy and the Central Valley of California.

In this particular case, I was looking at home prices outside of Bozeman. All 1500 sq ft houses were basically listed over $300k. I have double the square footage in IL for that price. There is an 892 sq ft shack listed for $200k! Montana isn't exactly overrun with residents, so what is driving real estate there? Lack of land to build on (aka, the govt owns all of it)? Expensive labor to build there? Outdoor paradise driving up the value? Access to National Parks?

@GRG55 I think this is your neck of the woods? Blew my mind.
Click to expand...

It is the western side of Montana (and adjacent Northern Idaho) that has been attracting the high-net-worth hordes. Areas like Whitefish and Flathead Lake have seen large increases in refugee retirees and buyers of expensive vacation homes for more than a decade and a half.

I have a business partner who is a long time Whitefish resident. Raised his family there. As a result I am into KGPI quite frequently. On the holiday weekends and during Christmas/New Year the ramp at Glacier Jet is overflowing with expensive aluminum, mostly from California and Texas (and I mean overflowing, as in no place left to park). Multi-million dollar vacation homes on the lake or on the mountain golf course are common. There is a whole service industry that has developed around this, including private party organizers, companies that will completely decorate your vacation home for Christmas, including the table settings, outdoor lights, presents under the decorated tree, etc.

I was overnight in Bozeman last year. Seems a nice place. Quiet, well organized, polite people. Not yet suffering from the most extreme ill effects of too much money pouring into a small town like further north, closer to Glacier Park. But the locals I spoke with were complaining about the Californians coming in and driving up property prices, to the point they are afraid their kids won't be able to afford a home. One mused they should build a border wall and make California pay for it.

Boise, in southern Idaho, is in the early stages of something similar.

This isn't a political or economic forum, so I will restrain my comment - on a macroeconomic level this is one of the outcomes of bailing out the bankers in 2009, and injecting enormous quantities of Central Bank US$ liquidity into the global economy in the decade since. Capital becomes concentrated, and all that money sloshing around has to go somewhere. Not everyone is stupid enough to stick it in Tesla, Uber or Lyft common stock. ;)
Montana property, in select locations, has joined the growing list of "objects of desire".
 
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I think the root cause is the expanding population of the U.S. This situation is generational. Every 5 - 10 years people retire in urban areas, sell out and move to more rural areas...
 
Dav8or said:
Just a heads up. Montana and Idaho are HUGE either move to, or buy second home states for Northern Californians (ie crap loads of tech money). If you lean left, you go to Montana. If you lean right, you go to Idaho. I'm not kidding. These two states for whatever the reason are very trendy.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there is no shortage of left leaners from California coming here to Idaho. So much so it is frightening!
 
Mooney Fan said:
Lived in California for 37 years. One day after retirement June 2016 and that .....place.... was in my rearview mirror. Traded up in regards to standard of living here in TN. Sold in So Cal for $400 sq/ft and built on 10 acres at $130 sq/ft. Plus no state income tax

So I bought a plane too lol
Click to expand...
You can keep your hot humid summer days, cold nasty winter weather, chiggers, ticks, and stink bugs.
we have no biting bugs, dangerous snakes, no dangerous animals, winter day is normally 40 degrees, overcast, and .04" of misty rain.
And we get 300 days of VFR flying. no income tax.
all is true except 3 counties king, Pearce, and Snohomish. but they carry the state in any election.
 
Tom-D said:
You can keep your hot humid summer days, cold nasty winter weather, chiggers, ticks, and stink bugs.
we have no biting bugs, dangerous snakes, no dangerous animals, winter day is normally 40 degrees, overcast, and .04" of misty rain.
And we get 300 days of VFR flying. no income tax.
all is true except 3 counties king, Pearce, and Snohomish. but they carry the state in any election.
Click to expand...

Don’t know about that 300 days VFR west of the Cascades except in the Olympic Rain Shadow
 
GRG55 said:
It is the western side of Montana (and adjacent Northern Idaho) that has been attracting the high-net-worth hordes. Areas like Whitefish and Flathead Lake have seen large increases in refugee retirees and buyers of expensive vacation homes for more than a decade and a half.

I have a business partner who is a long time Whitefish resident. Raised his family there. As a result I am into KGPI quite frequently. On the holiday weekends and during Christmas/New Year the ramp at Glacier Jet is overflowing with expensive aluminum, mostly from California and Texas (and I mean overflowing, as in no place left to park). Multi-million dollar vacation homes on the lake or on the mountain golf course are common. There is a whole service industry that has developed around this, including private party organizers, companies that will completely decorate your vacation home for Christmas, including the table settings, outdoor lights, presents under the decorated tree, etc.

I was overnight in Bozeman last year. Seems a nice place. Quiet, well organized, polite people. Not yet suffering from the most extreme ill effects of too much money pouring into a small town like further north, closer to Glacier Park. But the locals I spoke with were complaining about the Californians coming in and driving up property prices, to the point they are afraid their kids won't be able to afford a home. One mused they should build a border wall and make California pay for it.

Boise, in southern Idaho, is in the early stages of something similar.

This isn't a political or economic forum, so I will restrain my comment - on a macroeconomic level this is one of the outcomes of bailing out the bankers in 2009, and injecting enormous quantities of Central Bank US$ liquidity into the global economy in the decade since. Capital becomes concentrated, and all that money sloshing around has to go somewhere. Not everyone is stupid enough to stick it in Tesla, Uber or Lyft common stock. ;)
Montana property, in select locations, has joined the growing list of "objects of desire".
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Lotsa money sloshing around, defying gravity
 
Tom-D said:
You can keep your hot humid summer days, cold nasty winter weather, chiggers, ticks, and stink bugs.
we have no biting bugs, dangerous snakes, no dangerous animals, winter day is normally 40 degrees, overcast, and .04" of misty rain.
And we get 300 days of VFR flying. no income tax.
all is true except 3 counties king, Pearce, and Snohomish. but they carry the state in any election.
Click to expand...
Blown-Mind-gif.gif
 
For Montana land prices, two words: Ted Turner. While it is fashionable to blame ex- Cali types for high prices for property in Northern Idaho and Western Montana, there are a lot of people here from in North Idaho from Texas, Illinois and other states. Oh, and Idaho ends just south of McCall. Rest of that stuff including Boise is just Northern Utah.
 
Austin is a fine example of what ‘new residents’ can do in a short period of time. I used to like Austin.
 
MtnMarcus said:
Unfortunately there is no shortage of left leaners from California coming here to Idaho. So much so it is frightening!
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Actually I am seeing exactly the opposite. A large number of the Cali’s appear to be alt right and that is frightening. There is a significant Redoubt movement that has arrived and most of them are Cali’s. The local GOP is dominated by former Cali’s and they recently demanded that the State Department grant a visa to an Australian man with links to the New Zealand shooter so he can marry his alt-right girlfriend who lives in Post Falls. I lived through the neo-Nazi era in Hayden and Coeur d’Alene in the 1980’s ( and I would point out most of those people were from somewhere else) and had a client whose business was targeted by those people and burned down. I have no desire to see a return of that cultural mindset yet it seems to be creeping back albeit in a different form.
 
Mooney Fan said:
Lived in California for 37 years. One day after retirement June 2016 and that .....place.... was in my rearview mirror. Traded up in regards to standard of living here in TN. Sold in So Cal for $400 sq/ft and built on 10 acres at $130 sq/ft. Plus no state income tax

So I bought a plane too lol
Click to expand...

4th generation native Californian here. We moved back to the state a couple of times for jobs, but finally escaped for good in 1995. I'll go back to visit, but I'll never move back. The lunatics are running the asylum.

MtnMarcus said:
Unfortunately there is no shortage of left leaners from California coming here to Idaho. So much so it is frightening!
Click to expand...

That is scary.

Tom-D said:
You can keep your hot humid summer days, cold nasty winter weather, chiggers, ticks, and stink bugs.
we have no biting bugs, dangerous snakes, no dangerous animals, winter day is normally 40 degrees, overcast, and .04" of misty rain.
And we get 300 days of VFR flying. no income tax.
all is true except 3 counties king, Pearce, and Snohomish. but they carry the state in any election.
Click to expand...

That last comment is the problem. The state of Washington is beautiful, but the idiots in those three counties are ruining it for the rest of us.
 
Ghery said:
That last comment is the problem. The state of Washington is beautiful, but the idiots in those three counties are ruining it for the rest of us.
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Is it some sort of fungus that affects voting behavior ?
 
weilke said:
Is it some sort of fungus that affects voting behavior ?
Click to expand...

It's the salt air. Has similar effects along the most of the left coast from Puget Sound to La LA land. Why do you think I moved away from there as a resident permanently in 1979. ;)

I have an office in Seattle. Also have people and partners in Tulsa, northern Montana and Calgary, Canada (think Houston, TX for a political mindset comparison). Makes for some interesting interactions and dynamics. We almost had to send in extra defibrillators and trauma counselors to the Seattle office on the morning of Nov 9, 2016.
 
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GRG55 said:
It's the salt air. Has similar effects along the most of the left coast from Puget Sound to La LA land. Why do you think I moved away from there as a resident permanently in 1979. ;)

I have an office in Seattle. Also have people and partners in Tulsa, northern Montana and Calgary, Canada (think Houston, TX for a political mindset comparison). Makes for some interesting interactions and dynamics. We almost had to send in extra defibrillators and trauma counselors to the Seattle office on the morning of Nov 9, 2016.
Click to expand...
Safe spaces, cry rooms, and pony’s complete with balloons are modern day coping counselors. But of course, that was after resuscitation. The data is clear. Many are leaving the west coast for greener pastures. And it’s logical to assume most are right leaning Americans. These are successfull people for the most part. Not a bunch of neo-nazi sympathiezers who love to fly.
 
It's simple math, the steeper the land the more it is per acre. Surveying is done on a flat plane. So if you buy the side of a mountain that's at 60 degrees, you're getting twice the amount of property you paid for!:cool:
 
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