Read the Damned NOTAMS, People!

[Lindberg]

Or better yet, suggest that it be added!

Maybe both!

 

[James331]

Non-towered airports have a procedure you're supposed to follow when in the traffic pattern...it's supposed to prevent this kind of thing. You don't just cut someone off because you feel like it...you get in line.

Define cut someone off

If the OP was on like a 1 mile final, yeah I agree

If the op was dragging it in 7 miles out, nope.

 

[pete480]

Define cut someone off

If the OP was on like a 1 mile final, yeah I agree

If the op was dragging it in 7 miles out, nope.

7 miles out...no problem

From the OP: "...when all of the sudden, a retract turns in front of me 200 feet off the ground. Less than 50 feet away.
THAT's a problem.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That' the trouble with all the laptops, Ipads, Foreflights, and other bogus computer screens restricting the view.

The rule is still "see and be seen!!!"

Time to spend more time LOOKING out the windshield, rather than Foreflight.

Are saying the pilot should not have been checking for the correct frequency to self-announce?

 

[Zeldman]

So, if it wasn't a retract this would not have happened....

Only heard one side of the story, but I see a simple case of not seeing and avoiding on both parties.

And there has been a few times I have stopped on the runway, jumped out and dropped trou....

And I won't say anything about seeing swear words in the title.

 

[tspear]

Non-towered airports have a procedure you're supposed to follow when in the traffic pattern...it's supposed to prevent this kind of thing. You don't just cut someone off because you feel like it...you get in line.

Your assumption is that they all were in pattern, following the AIM. Check the required distances on the AIM guidance, and I am willing to bet you will find 90% of the pilots are not "in pattern".

Tim

 

[paflyer]

Define cut someone off

If the OP was on like a 1 mile final, yeah I agree

If the op was dragging it in 7 miles out, nope.

then you call up and coordinate with the "dragger"...

 

[Shawn]

Sorry...the NOTAM system is a bit of a joke. It is great for preflight briefings but there is so much crap it is unlikely that a pilot that diverts for whatever reason is gonna go over and ask on frequency for all the relevant NOTAMS. Information as important as this where the CTAF is now different than the current published information SHOULD be in the ATIS/AWOS IMO...otherwise you will wind up with situations like this that could have easily been avoided.

Yeah, see and avoid is first and foremost but the whole point of radio coms is to lessen the risk.

To me the arrogance is just as much on the airports that feel that NOTAMS alone for mission critical things like frequency changes and runway closures are simple enough communication to convey to pilots when IMO those should also be broadcast on ATIS/AWOS

 

[wilkersk]

This stuff happens all the time. Its like people doing the 3-lane leap from the onramp to the fast lane. They're not looking and they don't care about your right-of-way. I just learn keep my eyes open and look out for these guys. If I'm heads up in the pattern and doing what I'm supposed to do, Its just a matter of applying power and heading where the other airplanes ain't. The problem is not to get sucked into a bad situation with no options.

The other day, some guy bombed into the pattern, oblivious to traffic already there. I was number 3, with number 1 flying a 747 pattern, and #2 crawling up his butt. I slowed to 80 kts on the downwind, made all the radio calls, and kept my eyes open. As I neared the abeam position, some other guys call the 45 for the downwind, Shortly after I turned base with #1 sitting on the runway and #2 on short final, the now #4 guy behind me call "left base" and announced he was "trying to share the pattern". I never saw him. Didn't have to. Applied full power and announced going around left side and early crosswind. Like I said, it happens all the time.

 

[\__[Ô]__/]

You didn't see him. He didn't see you. Unfortunately, it happens. Fortunately, everything worked out.

He may have been on the wrong frequency (his fault, one way or another). He may have not been on any frequency (legal, but not advisable). Again, it happens.
You shouldn't have said some "choice things" on the radio.

 

[EminiTrader]

I'm confused. What glitch in Foreflight?? You were talking to the pilot and he told you he was using Foreflight and didn't see you? I don't see how Foreflight has anything at all to do with this?

 

[Clip4]

How do I explain, this?
Happened this morning, and I'm still angry about it.
I'm on final, concentrating on my speed and touchdown point, dealing with some thermal sink, when all of the sudden, a retract turns in front of me 200 feet off the ground. Less than 50 feet away. I jam the the throttle and turn away, saying a couple choice things on the radio as I turn up and away.

Not only did the guy not see me, but he came in low, fast, and never said a thing on the radio. Another plane that was abeam the numbers said that he came in fast 500 feet below him and made a banking left turn to a very short final. Turns out that it was an "emergency" bathroom stop for his passenger.

In his defense, there is a glitch in foreflight that could be dangerous.

4 weeks ago, the CTAF at this field changed to a less busy freq. The change is notam'd and when you go to full screen for the airport on foreflight, it shows the correct freq. But, if you just glance at the chart, it still shows the old freq. Apparently, this does not get updated until the official chart is.

Due to a combination of his stupidity, arrogance, and this possible foreflight glitch, I could have ended my day in a smoking hole at the end of the runway. The Fbo desk apparently lit into him, and he was starting when I got to parking and shut down. He got out of there pretty quick, and did not even apologize.

Thoughts? This is my first real close call since I got back into flying last year. I'm not shook up about it, just PO'd that he didn't even have the decency to apologize.

First let me say FF sucks, but there is no glitch. FF publishes the charts as they are ublished by the FAA.

 

[NoHeat]

Less than 50 feet away. I jam the the throttle and turn away, saying a couple choice things on the radio as I turn up and away.

Were you using the radio to complain simultaneously while aviating in a crucial aviation situation -- a go-around with another aircraft 50' from you?

The way you wrote this, it seems so.

Aviate, then navigate, then communicate. Anything else can add more danger to a situation.

 

[denverpilot]

I just read the entire thread and think I got brain damage from it.

Pilot did something dumb.

Another pilot saw that pilot and maneuvered not to hit them.

Done. Story over. Mission accomplished.

For effffs sake folks. It's going to happen to everyone.

And it is going to happen at uncontrolled and controlled airports and even in cruise, to all of you, if you fly long enough.

I have seen all three. Close enough to count rivets in two of them. Neither my fault.

Just don't hit the other aircraft and move on.

 

[FlySince9]

I once had a guy call engine failure (A twin Aerostar) and cut me off in the pattern... Then, when I landed, I saw him taxiing (both engines running) not to the maintenance hangar, but the hamburger joint on the field...

 

[Lachlan]

Just don't hit the other aircraft and move on.

Is that the definition of "touch and go?"

 

[BigBadLou]

And that guy on downwind, who had you both in sight, why didn't he say something?

I thought the same. And thought about it more. If I am in a pattern talking to other pilots and see an unannounced airplane, I think I will announce him to let the others know.

OP, glad you saw him and avoided a collision. Good job. Once your adrenaline drops to normal levels, you will just laugh at this.

 

[danhagan]

My local airport changed frequencies a few years ago. I was not uncommon for someone to forget the new frequency, even had the local police helicopter and a national guard heli use the old frequency months after the change. I learned to monitor the old frequency when using the airport to remain safe.

When our field changed CTAF, I monitored as you suggested for over a year. Had transient planes a full year later still using the old CTAF

 

[Timbeck2]

I flew a cross country in loose formation with a friend of mine. He had 3 people in his Arrow, I had 1 passenger with me. We flew 60 miles to an uncontrolled airport known to have cheap fuel prices. When we arrived and pulled up to the fuel pump, there was a note attached that said the fuel pump was broken and to call Carl at (number.) Thinking Carl would come out and use the fuel truck instead, Carl said instead, "Sorry folks, park's closed. Moose out front should have told ya." Okay, he didn't say that. He said to fly somewhere else because the pump was broken. A Notam certainly would have helped and I wasted no time in telling Carl this.

I was cut off recently by a lower altitude high wing that never announced until they entered the downwind in a heavy Asian accent so I knew he was in training and probably had an instructor in the right seat. I announced that I was following the Cessna on the downwind. I got to the point where I normally turn base and this guy was still on the downwind. I asked, "Cessna (tail number) are you planning on turning base anytime soon? There are other aircraft in the pattern in case you haven't noticed?" The English speaking instructor answered, "turning base now."

Morale of both stories: It happens, and will happen again.

 

[Zeldman]

I thought the same. And thought about it more. If I am in a pattern talking to other pilots and see an unannounced airplane, I think I will announce him to let the others know.

I have done that and a few times the silent airplane started talking. Seems like when someone is being talked about it loosens lips....

 

[BigBadLou]

A slight tangent but hopefully useful for somebody:
I also got cut off on final once and received no reply to calls to the Mooney driver. I also confirmed on Unicom with the front desk that my radio was working (I wanted to rule my fault too).
Upon landing (after the go-around), I approached the nice lady who was still standing by her Mooney and inquired about her radio. She double-checked, triple-checked with the sectional and found out that she was transmitting on the wrong frequency (off by one digit). She apologized profusely but I gave her the good news that at least she doesn't need a new 530 for several AMUs.

Then I found out she is based at a neighboring airport.

Moral to the story: memorize frequencies of your neighboring airports. They might come in handy one day if you are forced to land short in your local area. (or maybe I am just an odd duck here?)

Advice #2 (if you care): when flying over/by airports on a X/C, put their frequency into stby on your radio (or on Com2) for easy access in case of emergency.

Sorry for the somehow-related tangent, back to regular programming.

 

[Harold Rutila]

This is a good opportunity for an ASRS report with worthwhile suggestions. Changing the CTAF frequency should not happen until the next chart cycle kicks in, and CTAF frequency changes should be announced on AWOS/ASOS. UNICOM operators should monitor both frequencies, too.

 

[mondtster]

When our field changed CTAF, I monitored as you suggested for over a year. Had transient planes a full year later still using the old CTAF

I've seen the same, and done the same for a period of time after a frequency change occurs. I know guys who use charts old enough to still have Meigs on them and A/FDs just as old. They think there is nothing wrong with that. The worst I've personally heard/witnessed was a guy calling old frequencies and runway numbers SIX YEARS after the changes.

So the moral of the story is to look out the window and fly defensively. No amount of NOTAMs or radio broadcasts will help those pilots who don't read them, get briefings for flights, or use current material for flight planning.

 

[Kritchlow]

I'm not questioning to OP's account... after all, I wasn't there.
That said, I always perk up when I hear "he was 50 feet away". I just don't believe many truly know just how close that is. Assuming he was on base and the OP on final, perhaps a closure rate of 100 mph??

That's 1/3 of one second.