re-entering aviation, what plane?

[vshortt]

re-entering aviation - can you offer advice?

Hi all, I usually try very hard not to make a first post to a forum a quesion, so let me apologize first... this is a question.

First a little background on me:

I got my private/multi/intrument rating back in 1993 and was only a few short hours from getting my commercial license when I discovered that my beautiful daughter was on her way... out went my dream of being a pilot and in came the necessities of raising children.

Thanks to numerous friends and family members in aviation, I have been able to, at least, keep my hand in the door of aviation. I am a pilot at heart and always will be, but my kiddos came first.

Now, my eldest is about to turn 17, I am returning to aviation, getting my licenses back up to snuff, getting checked out in a couple of aircraft and going to continue building hours. Over thast 17 years, I've managed to amass all of about 500 hours of flying time, and my IFR has long sense lapsed.

Luckily, I am now in a much better financial position, I have 4 beautiful children (three of them are teenagers) and am ready to get back to my first love, flying. Starting next week, I will start getting everything back to snuff and getting profecient again, and now I'm actually seriously thinking about buying my first airplane.

I'm look at either a piper archer 180 or a Comanche 180 - I love the idea of having a retract and the extra range that the comanche with tip tanks can offer.

would anyone be willing to offer some nuggets of advice for a guy that is "getting back into" aviation? I'd love to hear any advice you might be prepared to offer up.. as well as advice on a plane that can carry two adults, two children, and a few very light bags for a weekend trip. I'm really leaning towards the commanche - but I'm not ruling out a bonanza.... I'm old enough now to know that going out and buying a twin probably isn't the right thing for me or my famiy, but I'm not really interested in a 172 either... I look forward to the replies!

Victor

 

[taters]

Welcome back Victor,
I would say a comanche or a bonanza would be a great choice if you are at grips with the operating cost...The bonanza really is a better choice for freq. family hauling...they will be much more comfortable and the post 84 Bonanza A-36's are equipped about as well as anything Beechcraft ever made.

 

[COFlyBoy]

You could go with a Cherokee 6, Lance or Saratoga. Then you could schlep your whole family and a bunch of stuff.

 

[nyoung]

Ditto this. With several college aged children, you might find the huge cabin of the Cherokee 6 variants quite nice.

You could go with a Cherokee 6, Lance or Saratoga. Then you could schlep your whole family and a bunch of stuff.

 

[NC Pilot]

What do you want to do with your airplane? Take trips? Bang around the pattern? $100 burgers? Take the whole family or just one or two people?

 

[poadeleted20]

If you're looking to carry two adults, two teenage children, and any baggage at all, you can pretty well forget anything with less than about 230 HP. I would say that the bottom end of what will do what you want is a C-182 or Piper Dakota. If you're looking for more speed than the 135 knots or so those (or the larger C-206 and Cherokee Six/Saratoga) will provide, you'd have to move up to something in the Bonanza class -- 250+ HP and retractable gear, although the 235 HP C-182RG might also fill the bill (check actual W&B data for real load-hauling ability). Examples of that class include the Bonanza (any of the 33/35/36 would do for your load), 250/260 Comanche, C-210, Bellanca Viking, and Piper's Lance and RG version of the Saratoga.

Best bet is to peruse the "for sale" ads to see what's available and whether their prices are in your budget range (big difference in price between a 1966 Piper Dakota and a 2008 C-182 even if not in capability), and to try finding folks who have those planes and would let you at least poke around in them and preferably try flying them so you know what works and what you like flying.

 

[vshortt]

Really, what I'm wanting to do would be broken down like this:

75% $100 hamburgers/proficiency/tooling around/training
20% local travel (within the state) to see family members etc..
5% longer travel, maybe a yearly trip to the Texas Coast

It would be great to be able to put 2 teenagers in the back and go somewhere, but the reality is that they will all be out of the house in a few years and off to college. so the travel number above may change a bit.

Really, what I'd like to end up with is a plane that would take myself and my wife, perhaps two other adults, and a small bit of baggage off on a short trip. I would love to be able to afford a saratoga, Lance or a six, but I'm hoping to keep the pricetag around $80K. I think the majority of the flying I do is going be just my wife and me... I am sure I am typical of all first time aircraft buyers.. wants the world, but doesn't want to pay for it.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Look carefully at the useful load of whatever you are thinking about. There are few 4 seat airplanes that can actually carry 4 adults, baggage and a reasonable amount of gas. Comanche 250/260, 182 (with a big engine), PA-28-235, and the Bos.

 

[vshortt]

Will do, thanks...

Perhaps one good question to ask, does anyone think I'm looking at "too much plane" for a first time buyer?

I've heard horror stories of guys buying their first plane only to realize AFTER the sale that they can't get insurance due to lack of time or rating. Of course, most of those stories center around a fresh PPL, or a PPL that hasn't had his chkride yet and is truly green (which, frankly, I don't feel as though I'm far from that.)

I'm an IFR, Multi rated pilot - I would hope that the insurers would take that into account and will be making a few calls to them today. I'm not in a hurry to buy a plane - but if the right one comes along I need to be able to recognize it.

Any pointers on what to look for (other than the obvious TT's and logbooks) when I actually start looking at aircraft? what would be some obvious things that should tell me to "walk away" from a plane? what kinds of things might look like they're bad, but in reality they're not?

 

[poadeleted20]

Really, what I'd like to end up with is a plane that would take myself and my wife, perhaps two other adults, and a small bit of baggage off on a short trip.

Four adults and baggage just isn't happening with 200HP or less.

I would love to be able to afford a saratoga, Lance or a six, but I'm hoping to keep the pricetag around $80K.

In today's market, you may find some decent 182's for that price, and probably several Piper 235 Cherokees or Dakotas. Those planes will do all the things you want.

I think the majority of the flying I do is going be just my wife and me...

That's the question -- can you live with not being able to haul four adults and baggage? If you can, then a much larger range of aircraft with much lower price tags (the 180-200HP 4-seaters) opens up. Those can carry four adults without bags, or three with, very happily, especially if you aren't going long distances.

 

[poadeleted20]

Perhaps one good question to ask, does anyone think I'm looking at "too much plane" for a first time buyer?

My observation is that folks who buy more than a fixed gear 4-seat single for their first plane have a much greater incidence of feeling like they're in over their heads the first year of ownership than those who buy something simpler.

I've heard horror stories of guys buying their first plane only to realize AFTER the sale that they can't get insurance due to lack of time or rating.

That is easily prevented by finding a good broker beforehand and discussing the matter candidly.

Any pointers on what to look for (other than the obvious TT's and logbooks) when I actually start looking at aircraft? what would be some obvious things that should tell me to "walk away" from a plane? what kinds of things might look like they're bad, but in reality they're not?

Each aircraft type has its own quirks, so getting with the type club before you buy and learning those quirks so you know what to look for is a good idea. But the biggest thing is recognizing what you can fix (and how much it costs) versus what you can't. Pretty much any plane with a sound structure and reusable engine core can be renovated to showroom condition or better, but you need to know the costs of things like engine/prop overhauls, paint and interior, and avionics upgrades, and understand that you generally recoup only about half the upgrade/improvement money you put into a plane. That means a $70K plane which needs only a little work may be a lot better deal than a $50K plane which needs a lot.

 

[taters]

Will do, thanks...

Perhaps one good question to ask, does anyone think I'm looking at "too much plane" for a first time buyer?

I've heard horror stories of guys buying their first plane only to realize AFTER the sale that they can't get insurance due to lack of time or rating. Of course, most of those stories center around a fresh PPL, or a PPL that hasn't had his chkride yet and is truly green (which, frankly, I don't feel as though I'm far from that.)

I'm an IFR, Multi rated pilot - I would hope that the insurers would take that into account and will be making a few calls to them today. I'm not in a hurry to buy a plane - but if the right one comes along I need to be able to recognize it.

Any pointers on what to look for (other than the obvious TT's and logbooks) when I actually start looking at aircraft? what would be some obvious things that should tell me to "walk away" from a plane? what kinds of things might look like they're bad, but in reality they're not?

At 500 TT IR/ME I wouldn't sweat it, but would expect some "mentoring time" in the Bonanza with a fresh FR/IPC.

 

[vshortt]

okay, I have one other question. After posting last night, I went through all my aviation goodies to find that my log book has gone missing.. I remember have 492.2 hours total at my last entry, but the log book has gone completley missing.

I've moved to three different states and numerous houses since the last time I actually made an entry in the book, so who knows where it's gone.

How in the world do I go about substantiating my hours without the book? Obviously my license shows PP/ME/IR - so if I had to I could go back to the minimum hours for those three licenses - but I KNOW i have more hours than that. - yes, I know I should have taken better care of the book and kept it close to me at all times, but life got in the way I guess you could say.

I have ordered a new book and it's on its' way. I also have a call into the company that I'm going to re-up all my certs with, hopefully they will be able to supply some answers too.

Any thoughts? I'm sure I'm not the first guys thats had the misforture of a lost a log book. I'm also pretty sure that I'm not the first guy that had to put aviation on the back-burner for family.

 

[jtheune]

okay, I have one other question. After posting last night, I went through all my aviation goodies to find that my log book has gone missing.. I remember have 492.2 hours total at my last entry, but the log book has gone completley missing.

I've moved to three different states and numerous houses since the last time I actually made an entry in the book, so who knows where it's gone.

How in the world do I go about substantiating my hours without the book? Obviously my license shows PP/ME/IR - so if I had to I could go back to the minimum hours for those three licenses - but I KNOW i have more hours than that. - yes, I know I should have taken better care of the book and kept it close to me at all times, but life got in the way I guess you could say.

I have ordered a new book and it's on its' way. I also have a call into the company that I'm going to re-up all my certs with, hopefully they will be able to supply some answers too.

Any thoughts? I'm sure I'm not the first guys thats had the misforture of a lost a log book. I'm also pretty sure that I'm not the first guy that had to put aviation on the back-burner for family.

Now I don't know for sure if this information was required 17 years ago but I know for the last 10 years that I have dealt with it, there is a lot of information that you put on your medical. It won't give you everything but it's a start. If you can remember who did you medical check with them as they often keep copies or else you may have to deal with Ok city for a copy of your last medical

 

[vshortt]

Now I don't know for sure if this information was required 17 years ago but I know for the last 10 years that I have dealt with it, there is a lot of information that you put on your medical. It won't give you everything but it's a start. If you can remember who did you medical check with them as they often keep copies or else you may have to deal with Ok city for a copy of your last medical

Thanks, I went ahead and put in a request to the FAA to send me all their records. Hopefully my last 8710 is in there and that can give me a good start.

The doc that did my last FP has long since retired and his practice is closed.

 

[poadeleted20]

From the FAA Inspector's Handbook:

5-321 LOST LOGBOOKS OR FLIGHT RECORDS. Aeronautical experience requirements must be shown for a person to be eligible for the issuance or to exercise the privileges of a pilot certificate. A pilot who has lost logbooks or flight time records should be reminded that any fraudulent or intentional false statements concerning aeronautical experience are a basis for suspension or revocation of any certificate or rating held. The pilot who has this problem may, at the discretion of the ASI accepting the application for a pilot certificate or rating, use a signed and notarized statement of previous flight time as the basis for starting a new flight time record. Such a statement should be substantiated by all available evidence, such as aircraft logbooks, receipts for aircraft rentals, and statements of flight operators.

 

[Y1GKG]

okay, I have one other question. After posting last night, I went through all my aviation goodies to find that my log book has gone missing.. I remember have 492.2 hours total at my last entry, but the log book has gone completley missing.

I've moved to three different states and numerous houses since the last time I actually made an entry in the book, so who knows where it's gone.

How in the world do I go about substantiating my hours without the book? Obviously my license shows PP/ME/IR - so if I had to I could go back to the minimum hours for those three licenses - but I KNOW i have more hours than that. - yes, I know I should have taken better care of the book and kept it close to me at all times, but life got in the way I guess you could say.

I have ordered a new book and it's on its' way. I also have a call into the company that I'm going to re-up all my certs with, hopefully they will be able to supply some answers too.

Any thoughts? I'm sure I'm not the first guys thats had the misforture of a lost a log book. I'm also pretty sure that I'm not the first guy that had to put aviation on the back-burner for family.

The Insurance companies that carried your coverage during your active flying career will have a pretty good record of your times, also previous Instructors will have information they can supply you with statements. Also the mechanics you used canoffer some help and last but not least each time you renewed your medical you put an amout of time on the med forms. Also remember that for each check ride you had to provide proof of times for qualification.

Kent G

 

[wabower]

Start poking around the airports in your area, and let it be known that you are thinking about becoming an owner. I'd bet you a nice dinner that you'll find somebody that will sell you something you like (or part of one, which is even better) without going much farther than Guthrie or Wiley Post, maybe Sundance.

 

[vshortt]

The Insurance companies that carried your coverage during your active flying career will have a pretty good record of your times, also previous Instructors will have information they can supply you with statements. Also the mechanics you used canoffer some help and last but not least each time you renewed your medical you put an amout of time on the med forms. Also remember that for each check ride you had to provide proof of times for qualification.

Thank you so much for the reply!

I renewed my medical on Thursday with the same doctor that checked me out the first (and only other) time I had a medical. Unfortunatley, my flying career came to an abrupt halt WHILE I was in school, I was building hours towards my commercial license. So, my only other medical was done as a "student" pilot... my doc couldn't help me.

Insurance was carried through my school, which is now out of business and has been for bettr than 10 years. I've tried to make contact with the original owner of the business in the hopes that he would have the information, but he informed me that since the business had filed for bankruptcy, he had - to use his words - "mothballed" all that information and wasn't about the "dig through it all for just one guy." - he was very rude, despite the fact that I had dropped a $15,000 check in his lap when I started and never got to finish my training (of my own accord) - I had paid for a private, multi, intrument, commerical, CFI, CFII and MEI ratings... it was my own fault I didn't complete, but still - he got about half of that money for free.

The two A&P's that worked for the school can no longer be located. The two instructors I worked with, well.. they're nearly impossible too. One of them moved on to become an Infectious Disease doctor and hadn't flown in as long as me. the other has since passed away due to health problems (anurizm (sp) at a young age) - so I'm stuck.

I guess, worst case scenario, I have to start my log books using the minimum hour requirements for the private multi instument rating that I currently hold, althought I know I was only a few hours away from my commercial checkride at the time.

I had well exceeded the 250 hour requriement for the commercial when I started my first of the two 2+ hour cross countries, had 1 3 hour cross country, on 5 hour cross country (will never forget that one! - my bum still hurts!)

I was continuing to time build while I prepared for the oral review and had to wait what seemed forever for a commercial checkride to be scheduled. I remember being told it wasn't "necessary" because I had already met the flight requirements, but I felt I needed additional work to have consistent, clean landings in the twin... why do I remember this? because they had just bought a Piper Seneca and I was only one of three students that were allowed to fly it.. I think it had to do with insurance and time minimums at the time. I was told they had a 400 hour minimum to fly it until they got the proper insurance for students.. does that make sense?

So where does that leave me? do I just log the 250 since I know I had the hours for the commercial or do I log what I believe to be correct and write a letter certifying that I believe the hours to be true and correct? I don't want to be accurate with my hours, as they are a direct reflection of my abilities.

 

[BillTIZ]

So where does that leave me? do I just log the 250 since I know I had the hours for the commercial or do I log what I believe to be correct and write a letter certifying that I believe the hours to be true and correct? I don't want to be accurate with my hours, as they are a direct reflection of my abilities.

So let's see what the FAA sends you in their records.. best bet is the last 8710 you filed for your last FAA Checkride.. That is the only "official" paper work on record. But it needs to be supportable.

Maybe any total hours reported on your last medical application many years ago (not the recent one). But that is not much for support.

Any endorsements, High Performance, Tail Wheel, Etc will need to be reaccomplished.

 

[BeRad]

Learjet.

 

[Ted]

Comanche 250. You'll like having the extra power, and the costs aren't significantly higher. Comanches in general are undervalued, but wonderful airplanes.

Welcome back to aviation!

 

[Y1GKG]

O.K. I am having misgivings about your chronology and your recall of events. A second class medical was required for the commercial rating, a third class was issued with your student pilot license. So you had to see the ME at least twice. Whether or not the school declared Bankruptcy the records are still on file with the Court as pertains to all transactions they conducted. The Trustee in Bankruptcy will have access to them. I have difficulty believing that you accumulated almost 500 hrs PIC
in less than 1 year before your 2nd class medical expired. IMO it is just too much alledged circumstance to be Genuine.

Kent G

 

[SCCutler]

Get as many "tracks" as you can manage. Based upon those records which can be derived, and you may be surprised what you can find with continued persistence, your time will be whatever it is that you certify, under oath, to have flown.

 

[jsstevens]

O.K. I am having misgivings about your chronology and your recall of events. A second class medical was required for the commercial rating, a third class was issued with your student pilot license. So you had to see the ME at least twice. Whether or not the school declared Bankruptcy the records are still on file with the Court as pertains to all transactions they conducted. The Trustee in Bankruptcy will have access to them. I have difficulty believing that you accumulated almost 500 hrs PIC
in less than 1 year before your 2nd class medical expired. IMO it is just too much alledged circumstance to be Genuine.

Kent G

OP never got the commercial. He had met the time requirements, but had not taken the check ride, so no 2nd class required.

John

 

[vshortt]

O.K. I am having misgivings about your chronology and your recall of events. A second class medical was required for the commercial rating, a third class was issued with your student pilot license. So you had to see the ME at least twice. Whether or not the school declared Bankruptcy the records are still on file with the Court as pertains to all transactions they conducted. The Trustee in Bankruptcy will have access to them. I have difficulty believing that you accumulated almost 500 hrs PIC
in less than 1 year before your 2nd class medical expired. IMO it is just too much alledged circumstance to be Genuine.

Kent G

Easy Kent, I'm not trying to scheme the system or anything. In fact, I would rather sacrafice a few hours to start with than have an unrealisticly high time that starts the log book and no skills to go with it. It's not a matter of braggin rights or anything, it's a matter of safety. A 40 hour pilot doesn't have the same skill set that a 500 hour pilot has or a 15,000 hour pilot has. I want to be accurate knowing that there's going to be an error. I want to make SURE that the error is on the LOW side. I'm not trying to squeeze more hours into my history. Thats unsafe, unwise, and frankly untruthful - and all those traits leave a sour taste in my mouth.


As far as the medical goes, I've NEVER held third class directly from the ME, My first medical started as a second class and then "expired" to a third class after a year... I never official applied for a medical as a "student pilot" - I applied as a private pilot and got a second class for a year. I would then have 5 years of a third class before I would have to get another medical. I actually think this has recently changed. back then it was three years for a third class, correct me if I'm wrong. Since I Didn't need the second class medical until my Com'l checkride, I was fine doing my training and time building with a third class. I just had to have a new medical prior to the checkride. - at least that was the plan back then.

As far as too many hours is too short of a period, I can tell you that the vast majority of my hours were accumulated over the course of two years back then I was a 20 year old kid with nothing to do but go to flight school. That means that I would have to fly a minimum of 20 hours a month, which is just under 45 minutes a day if you averaged it hour. I can tell I didn't fly every day. I can also tell you that when I did fly, it was usually at least 2 hours of flight time (planes were scheduled in 2 hour blocks), along with a number of full day cross-country trips where we would leave in the morning 0900 and not be back until well after 2000. (again, not all of that was flying, but the majority - we did spend time on the ground making stops)

And that was assuming that ALL my time was built while "in school" - which it wasn't. There is a lot of time logged outside of the school. I also never stated it was all PIC either. In fact, it can't all be PIC if you think about it. a good portion HAS to be dual time... otherwise how would I have learned, right?

I appreciate the scrutiny of the original question though. It Lets me know you're really thinking about what I'm asking and trying to help. Thank you!

Victor

 

[EdFred]

O.K. I am having misgivings about your chronology and your recall of events. A second class medical was required for the commercial rating, a third class was issued with your student pilot license. So you had to see the ME at least twice. Whether or not the school declared Bankruptcy the records are still on file with the Court as pertains to all transactions they conducted. The Trustee in Bankruptcy will have access to them. I have difficulty believing that you accumulated almost 500 hrs PIC
in less than 1 year before your 2nd class medical expired. IMO it is just too much alledged circumstance to be Genuine.

Kent G

No it is not. A second class medical is required to exercise the privileges of the commercial. It is not required to take the checkride or have the rating.

 

[Henning]

G-!V or a Global Express

 

[poadeleted20]

No it is not. A second class medical is required to exercise the privileges of the commercial. It is not required to take the checkride or have the rating.

It used to be, and the poster said "was," not "is." Years ago, you needed a second to take the commercial ride and a first to take the ATP ride. Not sure when it changed -- 1997 Part 61 rewrite? The FAA finally realized that it was silly to discourage folks from upgrading their knowledge and skills that way.

 

[EdFred]

It used to be, and the poster said "was," not "is." Years ago, you needed a second to take the commercial ride and a first to take the ATP ride. Not sure when it changed -- 1997 Part 61 rewrite? The FAA finally realized that it was silly to discourage folks from upgrading their knowledge and skills that way.

Ah, either way the OP said, and it was pointed out, that he never got his commercial, so there would have been no need for the 2nd class, even if it was during the time period when that was the case.

 

[wsuffa]

G-!V or a Global Express

Oh, shoot for the moon and go for an A-380.

 

[Henning]

It used to be, and the poster said "was," not "is." Years ago, you needed a second to take the commercial ride and a first to take the ATP ride. Not sure when it changed -- 1997 Part 61 rewrite? The FAA finally realized that it was silly to discourage folks from upgrading their knowledge and skills that way.

Not sure exactly when but when I took my commercial ride in 90 I had to have a current 2nd class IIRC.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ah, either way the OP said, and it was pointed out, that he never got his commercial, so there would have been no need for the 2nd class, even if it was during the time period when that was the case.

However, I think he said he was in training for it, and thus might have gotten the medical in anticipation. If so, that 8500-8 would provide some numbers to sign up to on that notarized statement. If he didn't, well, there are alternatives. But if he did, it would help.

 

[Y1GKG]

OP never got the commercial. He had met the time requirements, but had not taken the check ride, so no 2nd class required.

John

I beg to differ John, In order to qualify to take the ride you must meet all qualifications unless a waiver has been granted by the Administrator. Ergo O.P. must have a valid medical 1st or 2nd class.

Kent G

 

[Y1GKG]

"As far as the medical goes, I've NEVER held third class directly from the ME, My first medical started as a second class and then "expired" to a third class after a year... I never official applied for a medical as a "student pilot" - I applied as a private pilot and got a second class for a year. I would then have 5 years of a third class before I would have to get another medical. I actually think this has recently changed. back then it was three years for a third class, correct me if I'm wrong. Since I Didn't need the second class medical until my Com'l checkride, I was fine doing my training and time building with a third class. I just had to have a new medical prior to the checkride. - at least that was the plan back then."

How did you get a student license or a signoff for PPL check ride ? I have never known of an AME to issue a 2nd class Medical with a Student license. This is getting
more prevaricated as it continues.

Kent G

 

[poadeleted20]

I beg to differ John, In order to qualify to take the ride you must meet all qualifications unless a waiver has been granted by the Administrator. Ergo O.P. must have a valid medical 1st or 2nd class.

While that was once true, the requirement to hold a second class medical to be eligible for a commercial pilot certificate was removed from 61.123 a long time ago. The only remaining medical certificate requirement to take this practical test and earn this certificate is in 61.39(a)(4), which requires only a third class. The requirement for a second class medical in 61.23(a)(2) only kicks in if you want to exercise those commercial pilot privileges.

 

[poadeleted20]

How did you get a student license or a signoff for PPL check ride ? I have never known of an AME to issue a 2nd class Medical with a Student license.

It happens all the time -- all you need to is ask. We had our students at the univerisity get a second class with their Student Certificate so they'd know going in that they could pass it rather than find out only after they'd spend $30K on flight training, graduated, and then found they couldn't get a second class and thus couldn't work as a pilot.

 

[Y1GKG]

While that was once true, the requirement to hold a second class medical to be eligible for a commercial pilot certificate was removed from 61.123 a long time ago. The only remaining medical certificate requirement to take this practical test and earn this certificate is in 61.39(a)(4), which requires only a third class. The requirement for a second class medical in 61.23(a)(2) only kicks in if you want to exercise those commercial pilot privileges.

I would agree with your premise, however the time frame the O.P. alludes to would cause my conclusions to be affirmed.


Kent G

 

[wsuffa]

I beg to differ John, In order to qualify to take the ride you must meet all qualifications unless a waiver has been granted by the Administrator. Ergo O.P. must have a valid medical 1st or 2nd class.

Kent G

Not any more. I know plenty of folks that got the Commercial checkride done on a Third.

It happens all the time -- all you need to is ask. We had our students at the univerisity get a second class with their Student Certificate so they'd know going in that they could pass it rather than find out only after they'd spend $30K on flight training, graduated, and then found they couldn't get a second class and thus couldn't work as a pilot.

Agree. And it sounds like that's what happened with the OP.

OP, your best bet is to get copies of your original PP/instrument/multi applications from the FAA to document hours up to your PP check ride. If the other avenues are closed off to reconstructing your logbook, you'll need to be able to document the specifics even if you have to repeat the requirements. But you can probably combine that with some of the "refresher" requirements and checkride prep you'd need to do with an instructor anyway.

Since you got the instrument and multi, your hours on the instrument and multi applications will likely show much more than the minimums.....

 

[poadeleted20]

I would agree with your premise, however the time frame the O.P. alludes to would cause my conclusions to be affirmed.

Except the OP never did take the Commercial ride. It is only later we learned that the OP actually did take the second class exam, although he did so before he'd earned all those hours he is now trying to document.

I would also note that there used to be a minimum total flight experience requirement for the instrument rating, which was 200 hours when I got mine, and later 125 hours. Depending on when he earned his IR, that alone might document some number of hours. And, as noted, the FAA should still have copies of those old 8710-1's squirreled away in his file in OKC, and that would be the best place to start. See http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/copy_of_certification_records/ for how to do that.