Raptor GA Kit

teamcoltra

teamcoltra

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Rev. Travis
Not the jet, it's actually pretty cool looking -- they are taking pre-orders for 90K and it can be completed as a turboprop or unpressurized single piston.

http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/
 
Another CAD concept that isn't going to make it in today's climate. I'd like to see a turbo pusher homebuilt but I fear it'll go the same path as the Jet Cruzer and the VK30. I think if an established homebuilt or even certified company picked up the design it might have a chance.
 
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A little review of the effective Mach range of area ruling might be in order. :rolleyes:

The fiction shelves in my home library are full of experimental airplane specs, costs, and claims of success.

Nauga,
and his Whitcomb-over
 
nauga said:
A little review of the effective Mach range of area ruling might be in order. :rolleyes:

The fiction shelves in my home library are full of experimental airplane specs, costs, and claims of success.

Nauga,
and his Whitcomb-over
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You noticed that too huh?
 
I think if was going in that direction,I would get a proven design. I would like a velocity with a delta hawk Diesel engine.
 
I want to point out that I am not condoning the kit or suggesting it, just saying that it looks cool and it was only released as a plan this month...
 
That's a plane worth building if you can afford the P&W PT-6 plus a pusher prop for it.

I'll bet the aircraft can't be built and flown under half a mil.
 
Ron Levy said:
Let me know when they have one flying.
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Novel build concept, the kit is at their facility and must be built under their supervision, then you get to take it home and finish it.

cost of the kit?
cost of the P&W engine and prop
cost of 4 flat screens
interior ?

Yep, call me if you want to foot the bill
 
I would stay as far away from that program as possible. Smoke and mirrors, pure and simple.

'Gimp
 
I think that for any new plane to succeed in this country they would have to build three or four and start showing up at airshows everywhere so people can see it with their own eyes.

Trying to collect twenty grand from people in order to turn drawings into reality is kind of a shaky business model from the git go. It's an example of frustration for the owner of the company if I ever saw one, in that you need money to make money, but to get the money, people have to see something more than pretty artists renderings and flowery words.

I also think the non traditional design itself will appeal to a very small segment of the GA community, and even fewer who would be willing to risk large sums of money on an airplane that has yet to exist.

I think our President might be experiencing some of the same angst with his daydream of solving our nations medical problems, and he has tons of free money to throw at it.

-John
 
3 years and still no flying Raptor. Amazing. Velocity took only 8 months to a flying prototype and was selling kits less than a year after. Yes, this is a more refined kit but this is ridiculous. Get the molds done already!
 
Slideware.

A turboprop that burns less than a C152?

BrooklynBridgeForSale.jpg
 
paflyer said:
Slideware.

A turboprop that burns less than a C152?

BrooklynBridgeForSale.jpg
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Well they might come out with a turbo prop but the one they're selling uses an Audi engine for power.
 
Your 152 burns 7 GPH? You might want to pull that mixture control back a bit. But seriously, I figured I'd hit a 404 when I clicked that link, but they've posted video as recently as "1 hr ago". So they are still working on it.
 
paflyer said:
That's even funnier. Auto engine in an airplane.
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Isn't that almost a de facto standard in the EAB world? I might be high (I'm not) but at least they're still a going concern. Admittedly there's been many who have failed to bring a product to market, but I do like the concept.
 
iflyvfr said:
Your 152 burns 7 GPH? You might want to pull that mixture control back a bit. But seriously, I figured I'd hit a 404 when I clicked that link, but they've posted video as recently as "1 hr ago". So they are still working on taking people's money
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Fixed that for ya
 
iflyvfr said:
Isn't that almost a de facto standard in the EAB world? I might be high (I'm not) but at least they're still a going concern. Admittedly there's been many who have failed to bring a product to market, but I do like the concept.
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No, the minority use some sort of auto engine. Most still use Lycoming or an experimental version (Superior Engines) of Lycoming. Doesn't really matter though. Once you bolt it on to an experimental, the engine automatically becomes experimental.
 
The retractable step seems clever...

It looks like the underside is the armrest..?


If they could really make an $80,000 airplane that could cruise at 230 knots at 7 gph, they would sell every single one they could make, and truly revolutionize GA.

I think that will happen like I think Cheryl Tiegs is planning to call me.
 
The work they are doing is very impressive. This is anything but a quickly slapped together prototype, they are actually making molds for all components:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyEqCPjfEG1Cwt8-YEAOxbg

Still, I wish they would stick for the beginning to a proven aircraft engine, to reduce complexity and to increase acceptance in the market.
 
German guy.

If they hope to come anywhere close to the 130 grand they are now asking for their concept, then they are on the right track NOT using an aircraft engine. Right off the shelf a cont or lyc is going to be one third of their asking price.
 
I wonder how Audi will feel when they start getting lawsuits over their engine?

Anyone familiar with this story? Used a V-twin HD engine, made it work for aircraft and then Harley Davidson smothered him with lawyers and took him to court.

http://www.skyray.us/index.htm
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I wonder how Audi will feel when they start getting lawsuits over their engine?

Anyone familiar with this story? Used a V-twin HD engine, made it work for aircraft and then Harley Davidson smothered him with lawyers and took him to court.

http://www.skyray.us/index.htm
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Not only that, they're using the engine in ways not originally designed. Using antifreeze from the radiator for de-icing, engine oil to heat the fuel, modified ECU, PSRU reducing prop speed, etc. Good luck getting your local mech to work on it when there's a problem.

Lots of testing yet to come. I don't think they'll have a final product for another 2-3 years.
 
Velocity173 said:
Not only that, they're using the engine in ways not originally designed. Using antifreeze from the radiator for de-icing, engine oil to heat the fuel, modified ECU, PSRU reducing prop speed, etc. Good luck getting your local mech to work on it when there's a problem.

Lots of testing yet to come. I don't think they'll have a final product for another 2-3 years.
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I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they only sold that engine over yonder and not in the US.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
[...] If they hope to come anywhere close to the 130 grand they are now asking for their concept, then they are on the right track NOT using an aircraft engine. Right off the shelf a cont or lyc is going to be one third of their asking price.
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I doubt that by the time they are done converting the Audi Diesel for aviation use, it will be much cheaper than as an off the shelf aviation engine. Just think about the already existing aircraft diesel engines, of which some are derivate of car engines. All cost significantly more than Lycomings or Continentals in the same power range.

I just see it as an unnecessary, needless risk they are adding to the already complex task of developing a new aircraft. I also assume that a converted car engine would be a show stopper for most pilots, including myself, unless it has gone through tons of testing and has proven itself for years in the field. I do not believe that they can afford this.

While §130K indeed appears unrealistically low, especially IFR equipped, even twice the amount would still make it an extremely attractive offer.
 
German guy said:
While §130K indeed appears unrealistically low, especially IFR equipped, even twice the amount would still make it an extremely attractive offer.
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Twice? Heck, it would be fantastic at 3 or even 4 times the price. Pressurized and 300 knots? 230 knots at 7 gph? They'd have trouble making them fast enough at $390k.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they only sold that engine over yonder and not in the US.
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They've got one in the shop so at least the prototype will be powered by the Audi. I still can't see Audi authorizing new engines to be shipped to them though. Serious liability they'd be opening themselves up for.

My predictions are a completion cost of around $230,000. A realistic max cruise of 225 KTAS and economy cruise of 200 KTAS. Good numbers but I think the same or better can be gotten with a Velocity TXL, minus the pressurization.

Overall I really like the aircraft but I just don't believe the hype. Back in the day, costs for completion of a Lancair IV-P were 350-400K. That was realistic. I just don't see 300 KTAS and 130K for a Raptor.
 
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Velocity173 said:
They've got one in the shop so at least the prototype will be powered by the Audi. I still can't see Audi authorizing new engines to be shipped to them though. Serious liability they'd be opening themselves up for.

My predictions are a completion cost of around $230,000. A realistic max cruise of 225 KTAS and economy cruise of 200 KTAS. Good numbers but I think the same or better can be gotten with a Velocity TXL, minus the pressurization.

Overall I really like the aircraft but I just don't believe the hype. Back in the day, costs for completion of a Lancair IV-P were 350-400K. That was realistic. I just don't see 300 KTAS and 130K for a Raptor.
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That is a good point.
Skyray or hog air as it was originally called purchased a Harley engine from the company, modified it to work in an airplane and the when Harley Davidson found out it was being used in an aircraft had a seizure. They attempted to get the owner barred from ever entering a Harley dealership among other things. The funny thing is is that he raced motorcycles for a living. He keeps the website up just to pass off Harley Davidson.
 
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