#Rant: Biannual Flight Review instead of Aircraft Checkout?

I think a poll question is in order: Has anyone ever NOT been signed off on a flight review? I've only done one, and anything in flight that wasn't to satisfaction was done again. Same thing on the ground. This smells of bs.
 
I think a poll question is in order: Has anyone ever NOT been signed off on a flight review? I've only done one, and anything in flight that wasn't to satisfaction was done again. Same thing on the ground. This smells of bs.
As a CFI I’ve refused to sign only 2 people off. We did another flight and they flew fine and got the sign off.
 
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I think I didn't sign one off, maybe two, flew another flight and they were fine like Jordan mentioned.
 
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This place clearly sounds like a rip-off. That said the number of good 141 schools is greater than the number of cheaters. I used Post 9/11 GI bill twice. The second time was after the helo-schools debacle and I can tell you, the vetting of programs was thorough and completed by aviation professionals, not just VA bureaucrats. I have also worked for a company that provided initial flight training to military pilot hopefuls, the DoD was extremely detailed in their requirements.
This honestly sounds like a place that has gotten rich bilking foreign governments for money, managed to fake it and slime through a VA audit once, and has no idea about the comeuppance the VA could deliver.
I just don't want everyone on PoA to get the idea that all 141 is ineffective or wasteful or that those of us who used it responsibly are stealing your tax money for joyrides.
 
In 4000 hours of dual given, yeah, I've had a few. Most agreed and even expected that more than one flight was needed. Others had no clue or ability to self assess their skills. Those are never fun conversations.

As far as rental checkout vs. flight review, I don't see it as that big a deal. If you can't pass a flight review, I'm not renting you a plane. This is not a business where "the customer is always right". As a flight instructor, my job is to give you the training required to insure that you are safe. But I also have a responsibility to the flight school and leaseback owners to protect their assets. There are two common questions used to describe the evaluation process: "would you let your family fly with them?" Or "if it was your airplane, would you toss them the keys?" Sometimes, it's tough to make that assessment in just one flight. And yes, sometimes it is just a feeling as opposed to a deficiency in specific tasks.

Some common reasons why I have wanted more than one flight for a rental checkout in the past even though the skills seemed to be ok:

1. Pilot is new to the area, and could use a little more familiarization.
2. Transitioning to the G1000. This can easily take more than one flight.
3. Transitioning from carbureted to fuel injection. It's a different starting process, you want to see them do it more than once.
4. Directional control. Sure those landings looked acceptable, but I couldn't quite assess I you are really up to par because it seemed like you were able to "get away with it" because the winds were calm. I need to see what you can do when it's blowing 15 knots, and we just can't do that today.

The worst are the guys who walk in off the street and want to get checked out "in the fastest thing you've got because I'm taking my family on vacation next week". You would be surprised how often we get this. I had one guy attempting to get checked out in our retract. In the course of our first flight, he had forgot to bring the gear up twice and forgot to put it down once. He then couldn't understand why I told him he needed a little more work. He got very ****ed off and stormed out never to be seen again. Know what my boss said? THANK YOU!

Before you label me a hardass, I'm just explaining some reasons why a checkout or flight review may take more than one flight. In twenty years of instructing, I have done many in the minimum time, and don't believe in dragging it out any longer than necessary. I personally don't do it for the time or money, so if I tell someone they need more training, it is sincere.

To the OP, I'd say give them one more flight, and if you still feel like you are being taken advantage of, take your money somewhere else.
 
In 4000 hours of dual given, yeah, I've had a few. Most agreed and even expected that more than one flight was needed. Others had no clue or ability to self assess their skills. Those are never fun conversations.

As far as rental checkout vs. flight review, I don't see it as that big a deal. If you can't pass a flight review, I'm not renting you a plane. This is not a business where "the customer is always right". As a flight instructor, my job is to give you the training required to insure that you are safe. But I also have a responsibility to the flight school and leaseback owners to protect their assets. There are two common questions used to describe the evaluation process: "would you let your family fly with them?" Or "if it was your airplane, would you toss them the keys?" Sometimes, it's tough to make that assessment in just one flight. And yes, sometimes it is just a feeling as opposed to a deficiency in specific tasks.

Some common reasons why I have wanted more than one flight for a rental checkout in the past even though the skills seemed to be ok:

1. Pilot is new to the area, and could use a little more familiarization.
2. Transitioning to the G1000. This can easily take more than one flight.
3. Transitioning from carbureted to fuel injection. It's a different starting process, you want to see them do it more than once.
4. Directional control. Sure those landings looked acceptable, but I couldn't quite assess I you are really up to par because it seemed like you were able to "get away with it" because the winds were calm. I need to see what you can do when it's blowing 15 knots, and we just can't do that today.

The worst are the guys who walk in off the street and want to get checked out "in the fastest thing you've got because I'm taking my family on vacation next week". You would be surprised how often we get this. I had one guy attempting to get checked out in our retract. In the course of our first flight, he had forgot to bring the gear up twice and forgot to put it down once. He then couldn't understand why I told him he needed a little more work. He got very ****ed off and stormed out never to be seen again. Know what my boss said? THANK YOU!

Before you label me a hardass, I'm just explaining some reasons why a checkout or flight review may take more than one flight. In twenty years of instructing, I have done many in the minimum time, and don't believe in dragging it out any longer than necessary. I personally don't do it for the time or money, so if I tell someone they need more training, it is sincere.

To the OP, I'd say give them one more flight, and if you still feel like you are being taken advantage of, take your money somewhere else.


Did you ever not sign someone off and not be able to tell them why?
 
Did you ever not sign someone off and not be able to tell them why?

No. I always explain what I am thinking. Had a few that didn't agree with me though. Many folks are weak in self assessment.

And I'm also just trying to point out, that sometimes just performing all the maneuvers up to ACS standards isn't enough. Sure you physically flew the airplane just fine, but if I had to coach you through everything and you just weren't acting in a PIC manner, guess what, I'm not tossing you the keys so you can go kill your family. Let's work on it. But you will know exactly what I'm looking for.

In the OP's case, was the instructor a jerk? Maybe, maybe not. We are only hearing from the side a pilot who was disappointed he didn't get the expected result. Maybe he's getting fleeced, maybe he truly does need another flight. We don't know, we weren't there. Should he have been told exactly what he needed work on? Most definitely.

I'm not saying this happened in this case, but I have seen this both students and first officers I have flown with: as soon as you start telling them that they fell short of the desired result, they shut down. I've had conversations as to exactly what I was looking for and what they need to do to improve, and by the time they go talk to the chief pilot, their version has no resemblance of what we actually talked about.
 
No. I always explain what I am thinking. Had a few that didn't agree with me though. Many folks are weak in self assessment.

And I'm also just trying to point out, that sometimes just performing all the maneuvers up to ACS standards isn't enough. Sure you physically flew the airplane just fine, but if I had to coach you through everything and you just weren't acting in a PIC manner, guess what, I'm not tossing you the keys so you can go kill your family. Let's work on it. But you will know exactly what I'm looking for.

In the OP's case, was the instructor a jerk? Maybe, maybe not. We are only hearing from the side a pilot who was disappointed he didn't get the expected result. Maybe he's getting fleeced, maybe he truly does need another flight. We don't know, we weren't there. Should he have been told exactly what he needed work on? Most definitely.

I'm not saying this happened in this case, but I have seen this both students and first officers I have flown with: as soon as you start telling them that they fell short of the desired result, they shut down. I've had conversations as to exactly what I was looking for and what they need to do to improve, and by the time they go talk to the chief pilot, their version has no resemblance of what we actually talked about.

Ether way, not signing him off and not being able to articulate why, there just is no excuse for that, and if that's what happened and the OP didn't make it up, put and fork in that, NOOOOPE
 
Ether way, not signing him off and not being able to articulate why, there just is no excuse for that, and if that's what happened and the OP didn't make it up, put and fork in that, NOOOOPE

The sheet showed items as not complete. Not sure if they ran out of time or if they were attempted and not satisfactory.
 
The sheet showed items as not complete. Not sure if they ran out of time or if they were attempted and not satisfactory.
If everything on that sheet is "mandatory" for a flight review, that's another strike against the school.
 
i didnt sign one off just because I wanted to see her again, it worked, we have been married 18 years.......
 
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