Ramp fee's GA

retpd2001 said:
They have been doing that for awhile, at least 2 years when several of us in Tucson were going to fly up there to attend the IA refresher course on the field! We were warned that they would not even waive the fees for attendees... As a side note, if you know of an excessive ramp fee and send it in to my website, I will post it.
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There is nothing on there website etc. The only way to find out is reading comments on Airnav. If your going to charge a ramp fee POST it. Otherwise I think it is some clerk pocketing the money
 
skippy101 said:
Why should we HAVE to call and ask? Why can't they make this known in there advertisements? They make there gas prices known. This is my biggest beef! NOT POSTING INFO ANYWHERE on there site etc
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Agreed, when we signed up for the conference, we learned from the instructors, ahead of time, the airport didn't tell us. There were a bunch of us planning on flying in, we all carpooled instead.
 
Wait till ADSB is in then they have your information every time you land and a computer will bill you everywhere.
 
Like @luvflyin said... Call in advance.. I do, just to avoid the BS. The places I fly into to will waive ramp fee's with a top off or some minimum purchase of fuel. The bigger the airport, the more chances you will see different policies.
 
I'm really cagey about folks towing my Mooney as well. The uninitiated can break a Mooney by towing it wrong. Like I said, when its that bad I vote with my feet.
 
I'm thinking that pulling just off the taxiway and peeing on the corner of hangar is sounding really good...

Is there any place else in the country where you can show up somewhere and someone say "hey, welcome, glad to see you. Now that you're here, that will be $15." and you have no idea it's coming? Getting to the point that FBOs have less business courtesy than a prostitute, at least they agree to services and fees up front.
 
retpd2001 said:
Agreed, when we signed up for the conference, we learned from the instructors, ahead of time, the airport didn't tell us. There were a bunch of us planning on flying in, we all carpooled instead.
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Just did my BFR today out of SDL. Was talking about KIWA ramp fee's. One guy said "after 20 mins" they charge a ramp fee... Who knows what to belive as they don't post anything.
 
Bill Watson said:
our expectation that we can land wherever and get whatever we want for ‘free’ is troubling for airport operators.
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I don't see how it's any more troubling than all those car drivers who expect to use roads for "free". I pay for both in taxes. Extra services, sure, charge, but free basic use of a taxpayer funded transport facility is hardly unreasonable.
 
I always used air nav,as a reference. It’s not reliable any more,the FBO can block all comments on the site.
 
Bill Watson said:
It would be nice to know ahead of time but our expectafees were Class ion that we can land wherever and get whatever we want for ‘free’ is troubling for airport operators.
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Funny though, it worked good all those years before they started this BS. 20-30 years ago about the only airports that charged any fees were Class Bs. Sure there were overnight tiedown fees at smaller airports and were reasonable or waived w/ a purchase, but I flew for a few companies and we'd park, they'd go do their business, and depart in the afternoon. No charges.

Remember, taxes (grants from the fed) paid for most ramps, even FBO buildings, and I'm sure we all pay taxes.
 
Katamarino said:
I don't see how it's any more troubling than all those car drivers who expect to use roads for "free". I pay for both in taxes. Extra services, sure, charge, but free basic use of a taxpayer funded transport facility is hardly unreasonable.
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Yep, and I generally park free when I go somewhere; charges are clearly posted where applicable, so I know before I pull in to the spot or parking lot. Not so when I fly somewhere, I generally find out that there is a charge afterwards . . . I guess FBOs that charge ramp fees think rightly that theynwill be avoided if they post it on their websites.

IDEA: Let's all call the airport manager the next business day, ask why they don't post their ramp fees so that we know before we arrive? Three or four calls per person each time it happens, maybe they'll get the idea. Or dispute the charge with Visa? :eek:
 
At a Class D airport I visit often they usually didn’t have a ramp fee when I dropped off a passenger.

This summer, that changed. The line guy who marshalled me said it is $20 unless I buy 20 gallons or top off. So I bought fuel. And again the next time I visited.

The third time, I told the line guy I bought fuel last time I was here, and that ended the discussion, with no fee or purchase required.
 
Hank S said:
Yep, and I generally park free when I go somewhere; charges are clearly posted where applicable, so I know before I pull in to the spot or parking lot. Not so when I fly somewhere, I generally find out that there is a charge afterwards . . . I guess FBOs that charge ramp fees think rightly that theynwill be avoided if they post it on their websites.

IDEA: Let's all call the airport manager the next business day, ask why they don't post their ramp fees so that we know before we arrive? Three or four calls per person each time it happens, maybe they'll get the idea. Or dispute the charge with Visa? :eek:
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Not sure that the airport manager will have any say in many of these conversations, nor have the authority to change the agreements they have with a local FBO operator.

$ignature made the call a number of years back to strip all documentation of their fee schedules from their web sites.

I find that to be unforgivable corporate policy, but I don't think a local airport manager would be able to influence it.
 
It is hard to determine ramp/parking fees at some airports.

But we can help each other by putting comments in ForeFlight and other EFBs.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Recently overnighted in Morristown, NJ. Handlers had no idea how to tug (or even to connect a tow bar to) a Mooney after they marshaled and parked me in the middle of the main aisle. I ended up getting back in the airplane, firing it up, and taxiing over to the tiedowns myself. I was very polite and thanked them for asking me before they broke anything.

Then asked them to top it off. Next a.m., was charged $30 for a (non-)handling fee, $20 for overnight self-tie down, and for ~12 gallons of fuel at their $6-ish per gallon.

Me: I thought you waived the handling fee with a top off? Most places do.

Morning ramp guys: Nope. Need 20 gal min.

Me: How about a pro-rate?

Morning ramp guys: Nope.

Me: I can’t take any more or I would, because I topped off at the last stop for the same reason.

Morning ramp guys: Not our problem. We can’t waive it. Talk to the manager. He’s not in, though.

Me: OK, here’s my number.

>1 week later, manager calls

Me: Explain situation, suprised at non-waiver of fee with a top off.

Manager: Running a FBO is expensive. Never, ever heard of an FBO waiving fees with a top off. Need 20 gallons.

Me: You realize you charged me a premium fee for sub-premium handling and a self park due to non-trained handlers?

Manager: So sad. Too bad. Can’t refund after the fact. Call next time before you arrive, talk to me, and maybe we can work out a deal. <hear shiny jet turbine whine in the background>

Me: <Thinking, really? After no response from you that day, the next, or all week, you want me to try and get a hold of you for that kind of service??>
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Places like MMU do not want bugsmashers to interfere with the red carpet rollouts.
 
You could always tell ground that you’re taxiing to the hangars and find the dirtiest, most unkempt one and park in front of it. You’ve got a great chance that there’s a hangar queen sitting inside (or a boat, old furniture, etc.). Not exactly sure how you’d access a gate that way though. I’d be leary about posting my hangar info on here for the public, but too bad there’s no way to safely find out where POA members are hangared and get permission from them to park at their hangar entrance for a few hours and possibly get access to the gate too.
 
Ramp fees fall into 2 issues. Should they be charged and if there are charges, how are the fees disclosed.

While it’s great to say that my taxes paid for the ramp, the reality is that most airport’s yearly budgets come either directly from fees collected by the FBO or the governing body charges the FBO for the franchise. The small GA market has always skated by with larger operators picking up the tab. With declining operations and deep fuel discounts for Jet A aircraft, someone has to make up the slack. My friends from other countries are floored by the lack of fees for everything.

Where I have an issue is the lack of transparency in what exactly the fees are and the rules under which they are applied or waved.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
Ramp fees fall into 2 issues. Should they be charged and if there are charges, how are the fees disclosed.

While it’s great to say that my taxes paid for the ramp, the reality is that most airport’s yearly budgets come either directly from fees collected by the FBO or the governing body charges the FBO for the franchise.
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The most significant portion of a ramp fee from the large operators go to their costs, overhead, and profit, and is not passed onto the local airport.
jonnyjetprop said:
The small GA market has always skated by with larger operators picking up the tab.
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Skated by??? Really??

The small GA market is mostly interested in a gate to get on and off the airport property, not to pay for red carpets on the ramp, fake gold trim, and marble-floored palaces.

jonnyjetprop said:
With declining operations and deep fuel discounts for Jet A aircraft, someone has to make up the slack.
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OK. So the FBO creates a business model that gives big players deep fuel discounts to pull in their business. GA, and in particular transients, should "pick up the slack" and be left holding the bag? Mostly by paying non-published ambush prices?

jonnyjetprop said:
My friends from other countries are floored by the lack of fees for everything.
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Not relevant. Most other countries do not have a healthy GA environment. Maybe that's due to their overwhelming fees and cost structure...


jonnyjetprop said:
Where I have an issue is the lack of transparency in what exactly the fees are and the rules under which they are applied or waved.
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OK. We agree there.


Look at Signature's recent release, basically stating that by buying out their competition and increasing the price of fuel, they have been able to jack their profit margin to 20%. How many businesses have 20% margins these days?

Cry me a river for these guys. I'll happily support reasonable fees for requested services, in particular if they are going back into the airport. That's not occurring with this foreign based multinational.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...integration-boosts-signature-profits-revenues

Signature Flight Support enjoyed a 13.6 percent gain in profitability in the first half of the year as the FBO network has begun to reap the benefits of its integration with Landmark Aviation, Signature parent company BBA Aviation reported yesterday. With a presence now at more than 200 locations following last year’s acquisition of Landmark, Signature “is making encouraging headway in realizing the benefits of its unique and high quality global network and in enhancing its network performance,” BBA said.

Profitability also improved as business and general aviation movements grew by 3 percent in the U.S. and 6 percent in Europe during the first six months, BBA noted. Revenue at Signature increased 18 percent to $802.8 million, while underlying operating profit jumped to $160.8 million. Margins reached 20 percent.

In addition to contributions from growth through acquisitions and increased movements, BBA said revenues benefited from increased fuel prices.​
 
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