Care to put some money where your mouth is?
Ramp checks at OSH?
- Thread starter txflyer
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Care to put some money where your mouth is?
Obvious hyperbole. Cops rarely get fired, and they certainly won't for one complaint of civil rights violations. I'd be happy to put money on that.
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Sigh. Another added to ignore list. See, this is exactly what I mean. Gratuitous rudeness, rampant on this forum.
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You can't prevent a cop from stopping you, not sure what to tell you. If you feel the stop was unreasonable, that's what 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 is for. If you end up in jail though, the cop likely found something. And it's much harder to argue the cop had no reasonable suspicion if he did end up finding something, e.g. drugs. The obvious retort is: "well my suspicion was obviously reasonable because it was correct."Yeah....
Months later after the "suspects" are arrested, in jail, vehicle impounded, Huge legal bills... etc etc...
What's really outrageous are the border searches, including dismantling of the vehicle, that require no reasonable suspicion whatsoever. See United States v. Flores-Montano, 541 U.S. 149 (2004) (disassembly of vehicle gas tank at border requires no reasonable suspicion).
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You said never. Now, back that up.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ramp checks at flyins are really frown upon. However, if you see a pink shirt headed your way with a badge around "its" neck run!
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N1431A
I know some people who would have to hitch hike home if they were ramp checked at OSH.
JHW
En-Route
ramp checks aside, if you park in vintage or exp I'd encourage you to have your plane judged. The judges comments make for interesting reading, with just an external look they see things most of us miss.
As if I give a rat's .....
Ravioli
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Unwanted Guest - Perma-ban Pending
Curious about the term "Homophobic" Now that homosexuality is a non-issue due to marriage equality and all of the anti-discrimination laws... Is Homophobic a physical or mental disorder that needs it's own protected class and equal protection issues?
Don't hate the straight. Wow! I might have to get the t-shirt mill running
Not really appropriate for this forum and I don't want to get into it. Do you consider racism a physical or mental disorder that needs its (not it's) own protected class?
James331
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James331
Dude, you were the one who brought it up
We all were talking about airplanes and ramp checks and you came out of left field talking about sexual preferences lol
I really don't care about what, or who, you do behind closed doors and I really don't want to hear about it. Maybe find some gay forum and talk about being gay there, folks going to OSH, or talking about OSH are interested in talking about aviation, not sexual preferences.
Why is there always some person who just has to bring sexual preference, gender or race into every friggin subject
I was responding to someone else as you well know.Dude, you were the one who brought it up
We all were talking about airplanes and ramp checks and you came out of left field talking about sexual preferences lol
I really don't care about what, or who, you do behind closed doors and I really don't want to hear about it. Maybe find some gay forum and talk about being gay there, folks going to OSH, or talking about OSH are interested in talking about aviation, not sexual preferences.
Why is there always some person who just has to bring sexual preference, gender or race into every friggin subject
txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
timwinters
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That's a great lookin' machine!
Brad Z
Final Approach
Ramp checks at flyins are really frown upon. However, if you see a pink shirt headed your way with a badge around "its" neck run!
Since when did ASIs start wearing pink shirts?
What, you mean you don't care that some person somewhere that you never met is ignoring you?
txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
Gotta give frcabot credit.
He's gone toe to toe with you guys and he's holding his own pretty good.
This is an intimidating board. You guys flamed the **** out of me when I was just a newborn. Now go **** yourselves.
He's gone toe to toe with you guys and he's holding his own pretty good.
This is an intimidating board. You guys flamed the **** out of me when I was just a newborn. Now go **** yourselves.
hindsight2020
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For the naive in the gallery: the problem behind ramp checks is that the cantankerous and self-important civil servant can and likely will utilize any cosmetic deficiency or missing fastener on a plastic fairing on your non-cherry airplane to deem the airplane unworthy and ruin your weekend. Bullying behavior that goes against the promotion of general aviation and has nothing to do with safety. It's not about ARROW at all; the vast majority of active participants are ARROW legal, and you'd know that if you were an aircraft owner in today's economic landscape.
To follow up on the point of the thread; to exhibit said gratuitous bullying behavior at large is reprehensible enough, but to do so at a mass gathering of the activity is to invite immediate and vocal discontent for the FAA in front of media outlets, which normally are not otherwise present when these gestapo tactics are at play in Nowhereville airport USA and a victim sample of n=1. That's why even the FAA backs off, because they know the probative value of letting their jackals loose at public gatherings isn't worth it to them in the aggregate, which is also an implicit allocution that their duties are not inherently necessary or valuable in the aggregate, if you think about it.
And don't get me started on the CBP.......
To follow up on the point of the thread; to exhibit said gratuitous bullying behavior at large is reprehensible enough, but to do so at a mass gathering of the activity is to invite immediate and vocal discontent for the FAA in front of media outlets, which normally are not otherwise present when these gestapo tactics are at play in Nowhereville airport USA and a victim sample of n=1. That's why even the FAA backs off, because they know the probative value of letting their jackals loose at public gatherings isn't worth it to them in the aggregate, which is also an implicit allocution that their duties are not inherently necessary or valuable in the aggregate, if you think about it.
And don't get me started on the CBP.......
Just AROW now. For a second I thought you were talking about the bullying on this forum.
What, you mean you don't care that some person somewhere that you never met is ignoring you?
I ain't losin' sleep over it.
RotorAndWing
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Just curious, can you cite actual examples (names, location, registration) of ramp checks that you witnessed such behavior?
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
I ain't losin' sleep over it.
You have plenty of company!
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Why is it that the weekend warrior type pilots have such a huge problem with the FAA? I've never had anything but good interactions with the FAA, in a variety of situations.
retailguy
Line Up and Wait
This CAN'T be true. With all the anecdotal evidence in this thread, the only possibility is that it happens just the way that they say it does.
Every single FAA employee has to be a civil servant JERK.
timwinters
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Maybe because at least a third and maybe closer to a half of the ones I've met are knowingly non-compliant in one way or another...either themselves or the plane.
Life's tough when you have something to hide...and it's always someone else's fault if/when caught.
RotorAndWing
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timwinters
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And many A&Ps are no better. Can you believe this had been signed off at annual for numerous years by our local pencil whipping specialist?
And it's worse than it appears. The photo was taken in the dim light of a hangar. Another A&P who'll never touch my plane!
Oh...and one of those airplane owners who instructs his family to burn the logbooks if he ever crashes.
But, of cours, the FAA will be the bad guys if they ever come around and nail someone's ass to the wall.
And it's worse than it appears. The photo was taken in the dim light of a hangar. Another A&P who'll never touch my plane!
Oh...and one of those airplane owners who instructs his family to burn the logbooks if he ever crashes.
But, of cours, the FAA will be the bad guys if they ever come around and nail someone's ass to the wall.
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docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Just a quick clarification, the FAA has removed any mention of promoting GA from it's mission, goals, or duty. That's been, oh 20 years or more now.
As for attitude, or behavior, not just the FAA, but most if not all fed agencies with direct contact to the public have little or no regard for doing their job with any respect for the public at large. There is no downside to not being polite, or helpful, no one can or will get fired. On the other hand, if they are helpful, or accommodating to a pilot/A&P and something goes wrong, that could negatively affect their career so there's no incentive to make something good happen anymore. Strict code behavior.
Here's my latest interaction. The bill of sale form is a two/three part with the pink copy being retained by the buyer for use until the FAA comes through with the perm reg. You can't download it. I go to the local FSDO. It's in a heavily secured building with no signage or other indication except a solid steel door with; "Flight Standards District Office", and a long winded warning about trespassing, years in jail, video surveillance, etc. There's a cypher lock on the door, and a small button buzzer with the word 'visitor' over it. I push it, and a speaker squawks at me: "Yes?" I explain I am here to pick up a form xxx aircraft bill of sale. I wait. Nothing. I buzz again, different voice; 'Yes?', I explain I'm here to pick up a bill of sale form, and get an angry reply; 'well, you just need to wait - we are looking for it and when we find one you'll be the second to know'.
The FAA. We're not happy until you're not happy. But - it's in keeping with all other federal agencies, like the nice folk at EPA. Now, if you were a minority, and were seeking some kind of financial cash assistance from them, it's like old home week and they couldn't be nicer.
mtuomi
En-Route
And many A&Ps are no better. Can you believe this had been signed off at annual for numerous years by our local pencil whipping specialist?
And it's worse than it appears. The photo was taken in the dim light of a hangar. Another A&P who'll never touch my plane!
Oh...and one of those airplane owners who instructs his family to burn the logbooks if he ever crashes.
But, of cours, the FAA will be the bad guys if they ever come around and nail someone's ass to the wall.
Why is this an airworthiness issue?
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
Just a quick clarification, the FAA has removed any mention of promoting GA from it's mission, goals, or duty. That's been, oh 20 years or more now.
As for attitude, or behavior, not just the FAA, but most if not all fed agencies with direct contact to the public have little or no regard for doing their job with any respect for the public at large. There is no downside to not being polite, or helpful, no one can or will get fired. On the other hand, if they are helpful, or accommodating to a pilot/A&P and something goes wrong, that could negatively affect their career so there's no incentive to make something good happen anymore. Strict code behavior.
Here's my latest interaction. The bill of sale form is a two/three part with the pink copy being retained by the buyer for use until the FAA comes through with the perm reg. You can't download it. I go to the local FSDO. It's in a heavily secured building with no signage or other indication except a solid steel door with; "Flight Standards District Office", and a long winded warning about trespassing, years in jail, video surveillance, etc. There's a cypher lock on the door, and a small button buzzer with the word 'visitor' over it. I push it, and a speaker squawks at me: "Yes?" I explain I am here to pick up a form xxx aircraft bill of sale. I wait. Nothing. I buzz again, different voice; 'Yes?', I explain I'm here to pick up a bill of sale form, and get an angry reply; 'well, you just need to wait - we are looking for it and when we find one you'll be the second to know'.
The FAA. We're not happy until you're not happy. But - it's in keeping with all other federal agencies, like the nice folk at EPA. Now, if you were a minority, and were seeking some kind of financial cash assistance from them, it's like old home week and they couldn't be nicer.
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
That's a stressed skin on a monocoque fuselage.
There was an earlier thread on here where some of the "experts" tried to argue there was nothing wrong with that.
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I know I'm way to modded out to place. They like them the closer to how they rolled off the assembly line.
But I might try.... you never know. I don't think it costs anything?
I don't even have the original propeller.
Not necessarily true. Av Shilo got a Lindy for his Comanche, and it has nearly every mod available, plus a fully glass panel. Also took "Best Comanche" from the Comanche Society.
Because there are creases in one of the most structurally significant areas of a monocoque structure. I wouldn't fly it like that.Tarheelpilot
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Tarheelpilot
Load bearing structure is bent.... how is there any doubt it is an issue? No way I would fly the plane pictured.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
This conversation reminds me of the one about all the aircraft saved because of diligent FAA regulations concerning the particulars of the airframe data plate. I mean, we haven't lost one ship yet due to data plate failure, so it must be working.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
This conversation reminds me of the one about all the aircraft saved because of diligent FAA regulations concerning the particulars of the airframe data plate. I mean, we haven't lost one ship yet due to data plate failure, so it must be working.
Yeah, I know, you're right. That plane shown above has "just a paperwork problem."
This.