Ramona ODP

[coma24]

TAKEOFF MINIMUMS:... Rwy 27, std. w/ min. climb of 332' per NM
to 2600, or 3800-3 for climb in visual conditions.

DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: .... Rwy
27, climb via heading 268° to 2600, then climbing
right turn via PGY VORTAC R-336 to ROBNN INT
before proceeding on course...

Sanity check...can someone confirm for me that the 'climbing right turn' is to occur as you're intercepting the radial, as opposed to IMMEDIATELY after passing 2600?

If so, what is the purpose of the 2600ft notation on the DP? Why not simply have it say something along the lines of "climb via heading 268 and the PGY VORTAC R-336 to ROBNN INT" ?

Note: it's ~8nm from the DER to the PGY 336 radial, and it's only a 1200ft climb due to field elevation. So, it's not like the aircraft would be below 2600ft as they hit the PGY R-336 to begin with.

 

[alfadog]

Sanity check...can someone confirm for me that the 'climbing right turn' is to occur as you're intercepting the radial, as opposed to IMMEDIATELY after passing 2600?

If so, what is the purpose of the 2600ft notation on the DP? Why not simply have it say something along the lines of "climb via heading 268 and the PGY VORTAC R-336 to ROBNN INT" ?

Note: it's ~8nm from the DER to the PGY 336 radial, and it's only a 1200ft climb due to field elevation. So, it's not like the aircraft would be below 2600ft as they hit the PGY R-336 to begin with.

Lowly IR student here but 8 nm X 332 = 2656' + 1395' field = 4000'+ at R336 so everyone will be at 2600' well before R336. I would understand that to mean begin climbing right turn at 2600' and intercept the R336 to ROBNN.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Sanity check...can someone confirm for me that the 'climbing right turn' is to occur as you're intercepting the radial, as opposed to IMMEDIATELY after passing 2600?

Keith,

The way I read the ODP is like this:

1. Climb heading 268 to 2600 ft
2. [Climbing] right turn to intercept the GPY VOR R-336 to ROBNN
3. Proceed on course

In step #2, you can turn right as long as you are above 2,600 ft and fly a heading that will intercept the R-336 prior to ROBNN (meaning you can make that turn prior to reaching the R-336).

If so, what is the purpose of the 2600ft notation on the DP? Why not simply have it say something along the lines of "climb via heading 268 and the PGY VORTAC R-336 to ROBNN INT" ?

I think the 2,600 ft in the ODP provides obstacle clearance prior to commencing the turn to the north.

 

[dtuuri]

Keith,

The way I read the ODP is like this:

1. Climb heading 268 to 2600 ft
2. [Climbing] right turn to intercept the GPY VOR R-336 to ROBNN
3. Proceed on course

In step #2, you can turn right as long as you are above 2,600 ft and fly a heading that will intercept the R-336 prior to ROBNN (meaning you can make that turn prior to reaching the R-336).



I think the 2,600 ft in the ODP provides obstacle clearance prior to commencing the turn to the north.

You gave me an idea. I looked at where the KRNM field elevation is and it's right at the approach end of 27--a 5,000' long runway. So, I added that distance to the SkyVector DP leg and got 4.4 NM. Plotting that, it shows an eight degree offset from the 336° PGY radial reaching 2,600'. Therefore, the CDI should be off the peg and and a climbing right turn makes sense:

​

dtuuri

 

[aterpster]

Sanity check...can someone confirm for me that the 'climbing right turn' is to occur as you're intercepting the radial, as opposed to IMMEDIATELY after passing 2600?

If so, what is the purpose of the 2600ft notation on the DP? Why not simply have it say something along the lines of "climb via heading 268 and the PGY VORTAC R-336 to ROBNN INT" ?

Note: it's ~8nm from the DER to the PGY 336 radial, and it's only a 1200ft climb due to field elevation. So, it's not like the aircraft would be below 2600ft as they hit the PGY R-336 to begin with.

Don't read anything more into it than it says.

Some airplanes may be at 2,600 a couple miles west of Ramona, others may struggle at 200 feet per mile to 2600. In whichever case leaving 2600 you turn right to an intercept heading for the PGY R-336, whatever heading that takes.

 

[coma24]

All makes sense, I just got concerned by the lack of specific guidance regarding the interception of the radial, so I assumed the only fool proof way to do it prior to ROBNN would be on the 268 heading.

For example, picture a C152, in the climb with a 40kt+ wind out of the west. They set up for a 20 degree intercept upon reaching 2600 and end up not intercepting until after ROBNN. I haven't verified those numbers, but you get the idea.

Ok, so, 2600, turn, and what will be, will be. Got it.

 

[denverpilot]

Ok, so, 2600, turn, and what will be, will be. Got it.

Kinda. The what will be will be still includes telling the controller if you can't maintain a standard climb. The departure controller still has minimum vector ing altitude to deal with for you if you're too low. It's not really just "left to chance".

 

[aterpster]

Kinda. The what will be will be still includes telling the controller if you can't maintain a standard climb. The departure controller still has minimum vector ing altitude to deal with for you if you're too low. It's not really just "left to chance".

Vectors below MVA at a place like Ramona is certainly not where I would want to be.

 

[John Collins]

Don't read anything more into it than it says.

Some airplanes may be at 2,600 a couple miles west of Ramona, others may struggle at 200 feet per mile to 2600. In whichever case leaving 2600 you turn right to an intercept heading for the PGY R-336, whatever heading that takes.

The ODP requires 332 feet per NM to 2600.

 

[aterpster]

The ODP requires 332 feet per NM to 2600.

Indeed it does.