Radial Engines

FormerHangie said:
From the ad:

Engine Times:
285 SMOH​
Date of last engine overhaul: 06/26/1950

The overhaul is old enough to collect Social Security.
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And how many times has it been torn down cleaned de-sludged repaired as necessary, and put back in service?

You never do overhauls on a Warner, you can't allow them to fail, so you do the preventative maintenance.
 
Radials are awesome. It's great seeing all these posts about them and experiences. All my favorite aircraft are radial powered. Rotary wing would be the CH-34, another homely looking aircraft, the Grumman AgCat would have to be my favorite biplane, and the now rare C-123 for a cargo plane. I have heard from many that echo previous posts, maintenance intensive, fatigue inducing during flight, fuel gulpers, etc. Still... If I had the chance and the funds I think I'd own one. The Kaufman starter method I think has a big "cool factor" on these. Here, load this shotgun type shell in that tube there and let 'er rip.
 
Scotty78 said:
Radials are awesome. It's great seeing all these posts about them and experiences. All my favorite aircraft are radial powered. Rotary wing would be the CH-34, another homely looking aircraft, the Grumman AgCat would have to be my favorite biplane, and the now rare C-123 for a cargo plane. I have heard from many that echo previous posts, maintenance intensive, fatigue inducing during flight, fuel gulpers, etc. Still... If I had the chance and the funds I think I'd own one. The Kaufman starter method I think has a big "cool factor" on these. Here, load this shotgun type shell in that tube there and let 'er rip.
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Which will run smoother a 4 cylinder engine or a 7/9 cylinder engine?

Pilot fatigue was much less in the fairchild than the 170.
Buying a radial is no different than buying any engine, when they are worn out, they are worn out.

I disassembled my Warner, cleaned it, honed the cylinders and replaced the rings, touched up the valves, replaced two mag drive gears, and the main bearing with a .002 under insert. reassembled and the total bill was under a grand.
Lots of old wives tales, and mis-information, and just plane hear say about the radials in today's internet
 
I was jump seating in a DC-6 once. The flight engineer let me sit in the co-pilot seat during engine startup. One engine would just turn over, bellow fire and smoke, cough and spit more fire and smoke until it looked as if the engine was on fire. Finally it back fired like a howitzer going off in my ear a couple of times, more smoke followed by even more smoke which turned into flames, and started.

Whew.... what a time to not have a camera.
 
Besides a couple of short flights in the back seat of a T-6 and flying in the right seat of EAAs Ford Tri-Motor, I do not have any radial experience. I do want to get some real time behind one though. Even as an A&P, I have never worked on one except for a brief intro during A&P school which was so very long ago. I would love to own one so I can fulfill both desires.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Even as an A&P, I have never worked on one except for a brief intro during A&P school which was so very long ago.
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You haven't missed much, after a while the Navy ADRs would start smelling like D-120. their hands would turn black from the old oil in the props. Which needed to be de-sludged ever 50 hours. The juniors (AN) would spend 8 hours a day cleaning plugs on a sand blaster, cleaning drip pans, and polishing the spinner domes.

Yeah, the good old days weren't so great, we worked 12 on 12 off 7 days a week with one Sunday a month off. Then I asked to be placed on flight crew, they did, I got to do that too.
 
jaybee said:
The owner's actually have a few converted to a Garret turbine (they have 8 S55s in total ). They are used for agricultural purposes. Specifically at this time of year for two months time they are used to dry cherries. If it rains and the cherries absorb too much water they will split open and the farmers can't sell them. The combination of the weight of the aircraft, size of the rotor blades ( can hover pretty high and still kind of sort of be "in ground effect"), the low rotor speed and the lift distributed among three blades makes it ideal for the task. A lot of operators use other kinds of ships - R44, Jet Ranger, Huey - however, the high hover height we can do and still get the job done gets us above the power lines and wind machines. Operating costs are comparable I am told. :)

PS - yes the engine mounting has quick disconnects and when you loosen the lower mounts it hinges on the upper mounts. I was told an engine swap can be accomplished in a few hours by an experienced crew.



I hear that. It is one cool machine to fly. It also pretty cool getting to fly something that first saw use in the Korean War. So between that and the Bell 47 I've gotten to fly both Korean War helicopters. The H-19 Chickasaw was the first AF SAR helicopter. Very cool history and a very cool machines. After several years of flying helicopters with short skids its kind of weird sitting 10' off the ground ! :goofy:
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Are you in California? There are a lot of Cherry growers out here where I am and I see a lot of helicopters coming and going, however, I have never seen an S-55 here and I would remember that! Particularly the sound.
 
Tom-D said:
I disassembled my Warner, cleaned it, honed the cylinders and replaced the rings, touched up the valves, replaced two mag drive gears, and the main bearing with a .002 under insert. reassembled and the total bill was under a grand.
Lots of old wives tales, and mis-information, and just plane hear say about the radials in today's internet
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Really? And how much of your labor charge is included in that $1000 overhaul? How much would it cost to drop that same engine off at a nationally respected overhauler for the type and pick it up when it's done?

Good grief Charlie Brown!! :rolleyes2:
 
Tom-D said:
You haven't missed much, after a while the Navy ADRs would start smelling like D-120. their hands would turn black from the old oil in the props. Which needed to be de-sludged ever 50 hours. The juniors (AN) would spend 8 hours a day cleaning plugs on a sand blaster, cleaning drip pans, and polishing the spinner domes.

Yeah, the good old days weren't so great, we worked 12 on 12 off 7 days a week with one Sunday a month off. Then I asked to be placed on flight crew, they did, I got to do that too.
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Oh, I know turning wrenches can be dirty, tiring work. I've done it. At this stage in my life, I really don't want to work on radials full time but it would be nice to have some experience on them in case I do end up owning one.
 
Soooooooo, all we have to do is clean all 56 spark plugs...
:rolleyes:
 

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I've flown radials for almost 40 years. Started with a Stearman in 1978 and right now fly an N3N with a 680 Lycoming, a Kitfox with a Rotec and just got another Nanchang CJ6 with a Housai. My friend has an Ag operation and we converted three Ag Cats to turbines about 7 years ago. I've always helped his mechanic over the years and the 1340's required maintenance almost every day. The turbines require almost nothing. But for fun give me a radial. Don
 
Dav8or said:
Really? And how much of your labor charge is included in that $1000 overhaul? How much would it cost to drop that same engine off at a nationally respected overhauler for the type and pick it up when it's done?

Good grief Charlie Brown!! :rolleyes2:
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When I was working Ag it was cheaper to get a 985 overhauled than a TSIO-520.
 
yakdriver said:
I've flown radials for almost 40 years. Started with a Stearman in 1978 and right now fly an N3N with a 680 Lycoming, a Kitfox with a Rotec and just got another Nanchang CJ6 with a Housai. My friend has an Ag operation and we converted three Ag Cats to turbines about 7 years ago. I've always helped his mechanic over the years and the 1340's required maintenance almost every day. The turbines require almost nothing. But for fun give me a radial. Don
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Love those Ag Cats. :yes:
 
Dav8or said:
Really? And how much of your labor charge is included in that $1000 overhaul? How much would it cost to drop that same engine off at a nationally respected overhauler for the type and pick it up when it's done?

Good grief Charlie Brown!! :rolleyes2:
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Call Al Holloway at Holloway engineering Quincy Ca. he does them.
 
Scotty78 said:
Love those Ag Cats. :yes:
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Yea they're really fun when it blows a jug on an outlying airstrip and you get to go over and change it when it is 95 degrees out on a hot dusty dirt ramp. Or when a main bearing starts eating itself and you have to get the engine changed out before work begins the next morning. But on my SNJ with no deadlines it was fun to have a radial. Actually an airplane that you fly around 100 hrs a year they are very reliable and if they were overhauled correctly in the first place don't require a lot of maintenance. They also will talk to you a long time when something is going wrong. Don
 
yakdriver said:
Yea they're really fun when it blows a jug on an outlying airstrip and you get to go over and change it when it is 95 degrees out on a hot dusty dirt ramp. Or when a main bearing starts eating itself and you have to get the engine changed out before work begins the next morning. But on my SNJ with no deadlines it was fun to have a radial. Actually an airplane that you fly around 100 hrs a year they are very reliable and if they were overhauled correctly in the first place don't require a lot of maintenance. They also will talk to you a long time when something is going wrong. Don
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Regardless the cause, this is the main reason that the Ag operators who bit the bullet and went turbine did so. The disadvantage comes on the drought or flood years when nobody is spending the money to save a failed crop. My buddy with the 502 figured he needs 100,000 acres a year to break even. The big problem is the cost of insuring the $750,000 turbine plane. A recip 401 fully loaded with a top end SatLoc system can be had for $75k, and most guys just pay cash and self insure the hull. Most guys can't do that on three quarters of a million. The turbine revolution in Ag put a lot of operators out of business.
 
On the other side of the equation two Super B's converted to turbine with the bigger hopper can just about do the same amount of work as three with the 1340 AN2. But I hate the stink of Jet A and those Garrets will make you deaf. Nice rumble of a round motor is much better. Don
 
yakdriver said:
On the other side of the equation two Super B's converted to turbine with the bigger hopper can just about do the same amount of work as three with the 1340 AN2. But I hate the stink of Jet A and those Garrets will make you deaf. Nice rumble of a round motor is much better. Don
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The stench of JetA is horrid isn't it... I used to hate hot fueling other guys in the turbines, sitting on the wing of a 502, you're right in the exhaust flow.:vomit: the fact that it costs a fair bit of money to shut down for fueling in a turbine is another detraction.
 
yakdriver said:
Actually an airplane that you fly around 100 hrs a year they are very reliable and if they were overhauled correctly in the first place don't require a lot of maintenance. They also will talk to you a long time when something is going wrong. Don
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:yes::yeahthat:
 
Dav8or said:
Are you in California? There are a lot of Cherry growers out here where I am and I see a lot of helicopters coming and going, however, I have never seen an S-55 here and I would remember that! Particularly the sound.
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No sir, we are in central Washington.
 
It looks bad ass just sitting there.
 

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yakdriver said:
Yea they're really fun when it blows a jug on an outlying airstrip and you get to go over and change it when it is 95 degrees out on a hot dusty dirt ramp. Or when a main bearing starts eating itself and you have to get the engine changed out before work begins the next morning. But on my SNJ with no deadlines it was fun to have a radial. Actually an airplane that you fly around 100 hrs a year they are very reliable and if they were overhauled correctly in the first place don't require a lot of maintenance. They also will talk to you a long time when something is going wrong. Don
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But you end up with some great stories to tell, like you just did. :D
 
Scotty78 said:
I want one.
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Speed ring or Ag Cat? Ag cats are cheap, you can usually buy one for $25k, less if you don't want any spray gear on it. Except for working Ag, I can't think of any time they would be desirable though. :dunno:
 
Henning said:
Speed ring or Ag Cat? Ag cats are cheap, you can usually buy one for $25k, less if you don't want any spray gear on it. Except for working Ag, I can't think of any time they would be desirable though. :dunno:
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Ag Cat with a speed ring. All the ones I've seen are $75K and up. No, they're not really useful unless you're spraying or pulling a banner, but it looks neat and has got to be kinda fun to fly. Any Ag Cat pilots out there to weigh in on this?
 
Scotty78 said:
Ag Cat with a speed ring. All the ones I've seen are $75K and up. No, they're not really useful unless you're spraying or pulling a banner, but it looks neat and has got to be kinda fun to fly. Any Ag Cat pilots out there to weigh in on this?
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Pulling a banner is way more efficiently done with other aircraft, same with gliders. I worked Ag Cats for 3 seasons, one as owner of a B model with a 1340. Fun to fly? Not particularly since the job is just going back and forth and back and forth.... They will turn harder than an Air Tractor though, and are popular for working rice because the top wing will keep your head out of the water if you go in. I can out work (acres/hour) a 402 Air Tractor due to the turning ability, but not a 502 because he ferries less.

The other issue with an Ag Cat is it's a Restricted Catagory aircraft which means technically, you're not allowed to fly it for 'fun'. Not to mention that biplanes suck for visibility, a full half of the turn is blind to your field re entry point, you just trust it hasn't moved. Not until you are pointed straight and start picking up the nose for entry do you see it again.

I like working them fine, and they're more comfortable than an Air Tractr as well, but fun? I wouldn't go that far.

If I wanted one for 'fun' I would find a clipped wing A model with a 985 and use a BE-18 cowling.
 
This is my round engine.
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It's pretty.
 
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