R182 and GFC500 STC (finally)

[Landing Fees]

Just got word that the annual is nearly complete, no major issues found, and they expect to sign it off Monday the 15th. I've called my insurance agent to put the airplane back on my coverage, and have made arrangements to get up to Olathe on Monday afternoon.

My wife said I'm levitating. That's probably true.

Very nice. It is fortuitous that I am in class with a Garmin guy in the know. I was allocated a budget by my partners to bribe him to be #2 in the chute (just kidding, or am I). He told me it was done which we all pretty much knew from Athens recent Facebook post. GFC500 ‘s for everybody if only we can get on Oprah.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My wife said I'm levitating. That's probably true.

No, that's the "Flight Level Change" mode.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

In Olathe today for pickup of Birdie. Garmin is wrapping up the paperwork today and doing a final release inspection and cleaning. I’ll fly it home tomorrow (Tuesday July 16) if all goes according to plan.





They replaced my old cracking white Cessna POH binder with a new one, too.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I flew Birdie (our TR182) home from Garmin’s Olathe, KS facility today, after they used our airframe to certify the GFC 500. What a rock solid piece of equipment!! Watch this video of my descent into the DFW area. I was cleared to cross FINGR at 6000, then the rest of the SLANT3 arrival. Before I arrived at FINGR, I was cleared to continue down to 4000. As I reached FINGR, the G5’s and GFC 500 auto-slewed to and turned towards SLANT, the next fix on the arrival. However, just as the GFC 500 started that turn, my clearance was once again amended to “fly heading 200.” This video captures all of that, and how the system handled it.

P.S. I was told R182/TR182 install kits should be available by mid August, not the October timeframe I was thinking!

@Ted DuPuis, thanks to you and Laurie for your hospitality!!

 

[asicer]

Even has a yaw damper? How nice!

Did they remove the "experimental" placard?

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Even has a yaw damper? How nice!

Did they remove the "experimental" placard?

Yes, very last step after FAA approval of the STC this afternoon was removing the experimental placard and putting my standard category certificate back in the plane.

And yes, the yaw damper worked perfectly. I enabled it after flaps/gear up, and that ball stayed DEAD CENTER the rest of the flight, with my feet flat on the floor!

 

[denverpilot]

I flew Birdie (our TR182) home from Garmin’s Olathe, KS facility today...

Looked great. They really got it dialed in nicely.

Any idea why your speed tape on the G5 is fairly consistently faster than your ASI in speed changes but they seem the same every so often?

Toward the end of the video as you’re slowing through 140 on the ASI... or just before there. They matched at 148 then weren’t together. Or is that just camera parallax?

The AP looked nailed though. Your own personal airliner! You’ll have to play with it for a while and then Handfly for Harambe to keep the skills up. Ha.

I should send you my digital audio recorder, headset out splitter and 10 dB pad so you can record your ATC audio. I won’t be using them any time soon.

Only thing is you’d have to clap or otherwise sync video to audio so you would know where to slide the video to in an editor to replace the audio track. You get used to doing it and it becomes habit. And re-doing it if either one stops and has to be restarted.

 

[Ted]

Any idea why your speed tape on the G5 is fairly consistently faster than your ASI in speed changes but they seem the same every so often?

The calibration on the G5 should be very dialed in. Remember that when digital things like this are calibrated they're able to put in particular set points. This pressure = this speed, etc. etc. With a steam gauge you've got springs and mechanical whiz-bang-ness where the spring rates, gauge face, all play into the accuracy. In such situations the digital is almost always more accurate (the exception being something that's poorly calibrated or otherwise not functioning correctly) but sometimes the numbers you need to target are difference because maybe 80 steam = 78 digital, or vice versa.

Glad that it's performing so well for you, Troy!

 

[TangoWhiskey]

@denverpilot: on the video stuff, this was a rough and dirty off my phone just to share something tonight... didn't even take time to do a voice-over, just used the textual description before the video link to tell the story. I have splitters and tie-ins to the audio system for my GoPros, and intend to do a proper series on flying the GFC 500, as I haven't found anything out there that's well done.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Toward the end of the video as you’re slowing through 140 on the ASI... or just before there. They matched at 148 then weren’t together. Or is that just camera parallax?

What Ted said! The G5 is more accurate, I think there's a little lead/lag going on with the mechanical ASI. In steady state flight they are close (within a knot or two). I think I found the spot in the video you're talking about at the very end, while decelerating, and the G5 indicates only 2 knots faster than the mechanical ASI (140 vs 142). Close enough for government work when the state is changing.

 

[Ryan Klems]

@TangoWhiskey I notice your Vg speed bug around 140, is that really your best glide speed in the 182? Or is that set to your gear speed (Vle)? Just curious

 

[TangoWhiskey]

@TangoWhiskey I notice your Vg speed bug around 140, is that really your best glide speed in the 182? Or is that set to your gear speed (Vle)? Just curious

Gear speed. I'll look and see if that bug is set correctly! Thanks.

 

[Landing Fees]

Let my installer know the good news, got on the schedule for mid September.

Just ordered the AP. ETA mid August.

 

[SSV182]

Any thoughts on the install, specifically the electric trim set up and interface?

Any thoughts on the learning curve, education?

Ordered mine today.

Thanks

 

[Paul H]

I'm considering the Trio for an upgrade in our TR182, but have heard conflicting information about (1) whether it will do coupled RNAV approaches with GPSV guidance in the certified model, and (2) that G5 interface is imminent, but not intuitive (not as simple as adjusting heading or altitude bugs).
Does anyone have any experience or heard anything?

My trio captures the horizontal line and maintain it down to the airfield + or -20ft when the GNSS light is on

 

[Landing Fees]

Our plane finally made it to the avionics shop for the GFC500 install. The shop just finished a 182 with G5’s so hopefully they don’t dawdle. Communication has been great and I prepped by removing the interior. Can’t wait.

 

[SSV182]

why the h@ll can’t you use the same wing or brackets as the original Navomatic A/P? Nothing like ripping both wings apart to make this happen or both ends of the existing electric trim system.
Not sure this isn’t the most needlessly difficult STC I’ve seen.

Rant over, this system is beautifully simple in concept and with the previously installed G5s and GTX 345 brings the old girl into this decade despite turning 40.

 

[bnt83]

why the h@ll can’t you use the same wing or brackets as the original Navomatic A/P? Nothing like ripping both wings apart to make this happen or both ends of the existing electric trim system.
Not sure this isn’t the most needlessly difficult STC I’ve seen.

Rant over, this system is beautifully simple in concept and with the previously installed G5s and GTX 345 brings the old girl into this decade despite turning 40.

#1 The engineering investment into research & analysis reusing existing provisions would likely delay approvals and add cost and outweigh the design and installation of Garmin brand mounting provisions, especially when considering the design and installation of the garmin brand mounting will be required anyway on many aircraft as they do not have any existing autopilot. Sometimes analysis of existing structure inadequate stiffness, accessibility, clearance or other issues. The only practical way to make this work is by designing a replacement servo for a particular autopilot IMHO, and that is not practical either really.

 

[N1120A]

Man, for all that waiting, they should have given you a 650 to go with the GFC500 ;-)

 

[SSV182]

Finally done, short test flight. All working. Longer flight and report in next few days.
One strange question: why have AP circuit breaker and AP trim circuit breaker when electric trim doesn’t work without both pressed in? Seems like electric trim should still work without AP breaker in, but maybe because using same “brain”. I dunno, seems weird. Maybe AP trim breaker is just a runaway failsafe but can still use AP with manual trim?
Nice unit, smooth. Frustrating install. Try getting elevator springs reinstalled. Hahahahaha

 

[bnt83]

Finally done, short test flight. All working. Longer flight and report in next few days.
One strange question: why have AP circuit breaker and AP trim circuit breaker when electric trim doesn’t work without both pressed in? Seems like electric trim should still work without AP breaker in, but maybe because using same “brain”. I dunno, seems weird. Maybe AP trim breaker is just a runaway failsafe but can still use AP with manual trim?
Nice unit, smooth. Frustrating install. Try getting elevator springs reinstalled. Hahahahaha

The 1 amp trim breaker has nothing to do with powering the autopilot, it is a 12 volt discrete that goes from the breaker directly to the yoke switch, from there is switched to the appropriate contracts on pitch trim servo.

 

[SSV182]

The 1 amp trim breaker has nothing to do with powering the autopilot, it is a 12 volt discrete that goes from the breaker directly to the yoke switch, from there is switched to the appropriate contracts on pitch trim servo.

But the 1 amp breaker doesn’t actually do anything because you have to have 5 amp AP breaker pushed in to run electric trim whether AP is on or off. So, the power for pitch trim servo has to come off 5 amp breaker. Seems weird.

 

[SSV182]

Ran for 1.7 today, couple of approaches, hold, vectors to final. Amazingly smooth system.

Practices question...MA and go around, pitches up to 7 degrees, should we change to a Vs or IAS climb after positive climb rate and clean up, or just let it stay in PIT climb? I dial in MA climb altitude, but even at 7 degrees and 23” that isn’t a very quick climb rate. Was seeing 400-500fpm (MA altitude is 5000’+/-) at 7 degrees and 23”. Could pour on the coal, but why. If no climb requirement maybe switch to Vy climb? Thoughts?

Other question was cycling 530W past hold at IAF once PT made inbound, seems like APR made AP stay in hold, but NAV cycled to next WP, so don’t enter APR mode until past IAF?

 

[Landing Fees]

Mine is supposed to fly today. We didn’t not have a Navomatic but a cobbled together system (which no longer worked added we removed the vacuum syste
). Glad to have something that is made by one group.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Practices question...MA and go around, pitches up to 7 degrees, should we change to a Vs or IAS climb after positive climb rate and clean up, or just let it stay in PIT climb? I dial in MA climb altitude, but even at 7 degrees and 23” that isn’t a very quick climb rate. Was seeing 400-500fpm (MA altitude is 5000’+/-) at 7 degrees and 23”. Could pour on the coal, but why. If no climb requirement maybe switch to Vy climb? Thoughts?

I would switch to a Vy (or faster if appropriate to the situation) IAS climb once you've got everything else taken care of. I think they don't automatically do that because if they did that before power was all the way in, it might have unintended negative consequences...

Other question was cycling 530W past hold at IAF once PT made inbound, seems like APR made AP stay in hold, but NAV cycled to next WP, so don’t enter APR mode until past IAF?

APR shouldn't change anything but sensitivity. It's the 530 that's putting you into the hold, not the autopilot. It should give you the option to skip the hold, otherwise you can go to the flight plan and activate the intermediate leg by highlighting the FAF and hitting direct-direct-enter (NOT direct-enter-enter like you would to go direct somewhere) to activate the leg to the FAF.

 

[SSV182]

I would switch to a Vy (or faster if appropriate to the situation) IAS climb once you've got everything else taken care of. I think they don't automatically do that because if they did that before power was all the way in, it might have unintended negative consequences...

Makes sense. Damn if that PItch only climb isn’t rock steady, though. This thing may make my hand flying seem amateurish.


APR shouldn't change anything but sensitivity. It's the 530 that's putting you into the hold, not the autopilot. It should give you the option to skip the hold, otherwise you can go to the flight plan and activate the intermediate leg by highlighting the FAF and hitting direct-direct-enter (NOT direct-enter-enter like you would to go direct somewhere) to activate the leg to the FAF.

Totally forgot about direct direct enter option. I’ve had some difficulties making that work consistently when dealing with intermediate fixes like dog legs in RNAV. I’ll try that method again next flight and see if it cycles past the hold.

 

[Briar Rabbit]

We were told we still had to have a turn coordinator even though the G5 has it displayed. Apparently they eliminated yours?

Our backup nav com is a KX155. We left the original CDI in place for that radio. Was not aware it could be utilized with the display on the HSI by adding a toggle switch to select between the navigator and the King radio? I believe their concern was the GPS source is digital and King is analog.

 

[SSV182]

X-C flight (despite 30kt head winds), whole system ran like a champ, so smooth. IAS climb after cleanup on takeoff, HDG mode for assigned outbound track, levels at assigned Alt, hit NAV, Vs descent to pattern altitude on downwind, turn off AP.

Amazing, and nice add to the panel.
Ignore the high CHT, #3 probe runs 15 degrees hot since piggy backed to factory probe.

 

[bnt83]

But the 1 amp breaker doesn’t actually do anything because you have to have 5 amp AP breaker pushed in to run electric trim whether AP is on or off. So, the power for pitch trim servo has to come off 5 amp breaker. Seems weird.

I believe they designed it this way to eliminate a loop and allow the use of small gauge wire. There is no loop because the signal does not come from the servo, travel to the switch and back to the servo, instead the signal comes from the breaker through the switch to the servo. The wiring itself carries milliamps when the pilot commands pitch trim change, therefore tiny wire can be used. A tiny wire must be protected by a 1 amp breaker and would burn if shorted and connected to a 5 amp breaker.

In addition to that crew can disable the manual electric trim control and still have an autopilot

 

[Landing Fees]

Oh wow, that was amazing. GFC500 flew the plane amazing. Glad we waited. Need to figure out he buttonology for the go-around as the plane kept flying straight and didn't turn as I expected, maybe I wanted it to turn over the field. No appreciable change during gear extension, did see a big balloon when I put in 10deg on short final but I would normally offset that tendency to balloon by putting down the gear and flaps at the FAF (or anywhere else at the same time) but I was staring at the GS and so neglected to put flaps down until later. Again. Wow.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Oh wow, that was amazing. GFC500 flew the plane amazing. Glad we waited. Need to figure out he buttonology for the go-around as the plane kept flying straight and didn't turn as I expected, maybe I wanted it to turn over the field. No appreciable change during gear extension, did see a big balloon when I put in 10deg on short final but I would normally offset that tendency to balloon by putting down the gear and flaps at the FAF (or anywhere else at the same time) but I was staring at the GS and so neglected to put flaps down until later. Again. Wow.

It is definitely an impressive system.

On the go-around, if you hit the TOGA button it should place you in GA mode for pitch and roll, which means wings level and a constant pitch up. To follow the missed approach procedure, you'll need to activate the other modes as appropriate. For example, you're on the ILS, you go missed by throttling up and hitting TOGA. The plane will pitch up (the particular pitch attitude is programmed in based on what type of plane it's installed on) and keep the wings level. If you're flying this approach for example, starting on the final approach you'll be in LOC for lateral and GS for vertical. Upon reaching 1101 feet, deciding to miss, and pushing the throttle forward and hitting the TOGA button, it'll be in "GA" for both lateral and vertical and you'll be pitched up and wings level. You can switch the vertical mode over to IAS for climb right away if you want, and then when you reach 1500 feet you would switch it to NAV. Depending on your navigator, you may have to punch in direct BAE but if you have a GTN, and maybe a GNS, the TOGA button should initiate waypoint sequencing again until you get to the hold.

Hope that helps!

 

[Landing Fees]

It is definitely an impressive system.

On the go-around, if you hit the TOGA button it should place you in GA mode for pitch and roll, which means wings level and a constant pitch up. To follow the missed approach procedure, you'll need to activate the other modes as appropriate. For example, you're on the ILS, you go missed by throttling up and hitting TOGA.

Hope that helps!

After I landed I went back and reread the portion of the manual about TOGA and watched the Garmin webinar and it makes more sense. I flew three approaches a little difficulty in the transition between the RNAV going one way to the missed and then the ILS going the other but really and no issues. Rock solid even in some moderate for a brief period.