Questions about going to college or flight school

WBBulldogs

WBBulldogs

Filing Flight Plan
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I am about to separate from the Navy with full benefits. I have been lucky to have worked in a technical field (repairing Avionics). I have experience repairing Avionics at component level (think soldering and circuit card replacement) as well as going out to a spinning helicopter and troubleshooting to get it up in the air on time. I am very grateful that the Navy has taught me some very valuable skills. Now my question:

I have two choices once I get out.

1. I can either use the Post 9/11 GI Bill which will pay full tuition and housing allowance up to three years and go to a college and work towards my BS in Electrical Engineering. Since I already know a lot about electronics and I like the work I figure I'd continue it. Use some money while I'm going to college (part time job) and use it for flight training when I have free time.

or

2. Use the Post 9/11 GI Bill for flight training which they only allow you to use $10,000 a year for a max of three years. $30,000 total. No housing allowance. Then the GI Bill is all gone.

I figure it'd be smart to get the most money out of my benefits. After all I have worked for it. I just wanted to know your takes are on my situation. I've wanted to fly all my life since I was really young. I also have thought about flying as a career (charter/regional/commercial/instructor). What would be my best path? Should I maybe focus on a degree that pertains to aviation? Should I focus more of my money towards flight training than a degree?

I'm just not sure what's the right path and figured I could ask some people that have been out in the aviation community and the real world job market and education system to answer some of these. Thanks guys (and girls)!
 
Electrical engineering, unless you're preternaturally fond of ramen noodles.
 
Electrical engineering is a great field but think of it more as applied mathematics than practical electronics. If you can master calculus, differential equations and linear algebra you should do well.
 
engineering will take 4 years if you really hump it. you will not have time for another job and flight training. 5 years is average

do what you think you'll enjoy the most. you can make a decent living at either job. If you take the flight training route and want to make as much money as you would with your engineering degree, chances are you will need a 4yr degree of some kind (any kind). Your skill as a pilot and your tenure will set your pay and is all that really matters, however to get hired with a major airline you pretty much need a degree.
 
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When I started working, I had the fortune of being around a bunch of guys who had been Navy back in WWII. They had been radio/radar technicians and used their GI money to get their EE degrees. The were some of the best engineers I've ever known. Sounds like you have the chance to go that route, too. Take it. Fund your flying somehow - and you'll have plenty of time to fly later, and the ability to afforde it, too.
 
The engineers I know who fly on the side seem to enjoy it more than the folks who do it for a living.
 
dell30rb said:
do what you think you'll enjoy the most. you can make a decent living at either job.
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Amen. Although I earned both my engineering degree and my CFI a month apart, and have worked both sides of the street. FWIW, I quit my engineering job 11 years ago to work aviation full time, and my wife says I've been a lot easier to live with since then.
 
When I got out of the service, I wish I had targeted the higest level of accomplishment remotely possible then went for it.

Doing what I was familar with in the service wasn't bad, but I think there is a tendency for enlisted people to become comfortable seeing themselves as a second class citizen (not one of the officers).

I think goals like brain surgeon, Chairman of Board at Boeing, VP of Flight Operations at American Airlines, are better.

BSEEs are just more bricks in the wall. Set really high goals, don't take no for an answer, determine to overcome every obstacle, don't loose your head over a piece of tail, and see how you do.

The obstacles will certainly come to test you and, but who knows, you may level off at an altitude much higher than you imagine now.

Think, If you had all the resources in the world and were certain not to fail, what would you do? What do you love to do? Spend some time letting your imagination go, with no restrictions, then choose.

By the time you are done, the most interesting activity on the horizon may not even exist today.

My opinion (it gets you on the trolley if you have 60 cents).
 
WBBulldogs said:
1. I can either use the Post 9/11 GI Bill which will pay full tuition and housing allowance up to three years and go to a college and work towards my BS in Electrical Engineering. Since I already know a lot about electronics and I like the work I figure I'd continue it. Use some money while I'm going to college (part time job) and use it for flight training when I have free time.
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Hands down (IMO). An engineering degree is a good thing to have even if you go into full time flying. Remember, you are only one medical away from a desk job.
 
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Go for the EE degree. It plus a little effort will net you a career that will pay for flight training and an airplane to fly. IME, folks who fly for a living don't enjoy flying as much as those who live for flying and can afford it. So if your goal is to have fun flying you're probably better off in a career path that will allow you to fly on your own terms.

Besides if you want an airline career you'll need a 4 yr degree in something to qualify at any of the majors, it might as well be something you can fall back on if the airlines don't work out.
 
Engineering degree hands down. My parents forced me to get a real degree and I am constantly thankful for that. I worked as a CFI and did some Charter work (~500 hrs/year) in college and finished my Aerospace Engineering degree in 8 semesters. Now my engineering job enables me to pay for my flying hobby and live comfortably.
 
EE degree. Then create the next electronic aviation gotta-have whizmo.

And give everyone on this thread a massive discount so we can help spread the word.
 
tonycondon said:
Engineering degree hands down. My parents forced me to get a real degree and I am constantly thankful for that. I worked as a CFI and did some Charter work (~500 hrs/year) in college and finished my Aerospace Engineering degree in 8 semesters. Now my engineering job enables me to pay for my flying hobby and live comfortably.
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And after meeting Tony and hearing about his job, it's pretty interesting. I had no idea what went into developing the aircraft parts his group is responsible for. It was fascinating and cool to hear about it.
 
College. No doubts about it.

In addition to learning more EE skills, college will make you a better informed and intelligent person. It's a great investment, and it sounds like it makes financial sense with the GI bill, too. 3 years +housing can easily be $200k at a good school.
 
I also had ideas of going the experience route and trying to get a job in the field I am doing now. Not sure if that would be worthwhile or not. I also thought about getting an A&P and also work towards my PPL and other ratings while doing that. I'm honestly all over the place. I've been saving money so I can pay for the PPL once I am out. I really want to fly. It's all I've ever wanted to do.

I've known others that have done both the going to college while doing some flight training part time.

But the plan I always had was to make college the number one priority. So by your guys' answers I say I had the right idea. I was looking at the Computer Science field for awhile and then I noticed all the hardware aspects and the stuff I clicked with more were really more geared towards EE.

EDIT: I also like Tony's idea. I might try and do the CFI route while going to college. I've gone to college full time while being active duty. Don't see why it would be impossible to do CFI while going to college full time.
 
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gismo said:
Go for the EE degree. It plus a little effort will net you a career that will pay for flight training and an airplane to fly. IME, folks who fly for a living don't enjoy flying as much as those who live for flying and can afford it. So if your goal is to have fun flying you're probably better off in a career path that will allow you to fly on your own terms.

Besides if you want an airline career you'll need a 4 yr degree in something to qualify at any of the majors, it might as well be something you can fall back on if the airlines don't work out.
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tonycondon said:
Engineering degree hands down. My parents forced me to get a real degree and I am constantly thankful for that. I worked as a CFI and did some Charter work (~500 hrs/year) in college and finished my Aerospace Engineering degree in 8 semesters. Now my engineering job enables me to pay for my flying hobby and live comfortably.
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+1 to the above.

Seriously. Get the degree. You'll then have the INCOME in no time to pay for your flight training out of pocket. You'll also have the college degree you'll need if you decide to go "all in" and work towards an airline job. If things don't work out, you can make money.

Don't get a pilot degree. They *do not* help you get a job - and they most certainly do not help you make money if you lose your medical.
 
Definitely see what sort of FAA certificates your current experience may qualify you for... you may be already educated to get a repairman certificate for avionics (or the AMT certificate).

As for college or flight training, go for college. You need a college degree if you want to be competitive for just about any decent-paying job in aviation, to say nothing of other fields.
 
Flying costs money and lots of it. It does not pay much in return monitarily. I have spent well over $30k just in flight training not too mention tuition.. I can't even take a job fying regionals for 25k a year... PFFT I have a mortgage to pay! I love instructing and I love flying in general so I don't mind the money spent or the time but that's your call to make. I have 1000hr of flight time CPL ASEL/AMEL CFI-A CFII a BS in Aviation Science all paid off in full and I can't even afford to take a job flying jets. The industry is dead. My goal now is to make enough buy myself an Extra 300 and fkarnd do tricks and stuff. ;) But who knows maybe Ron Paul will get elected and kill the TSA, oil prices will drop in half, fear mongerors will be thrown in jail... IDK it can't get much worse right?

<---<^>--->
 
WBBulldogs said:
I also had ideas of going the experience route and trying to get a job in the field I am doing now. Not sure if that would be worthwhile or not. I also thought about getting an A&P and also work towards my PPL and other ratings while doing that. I'm honestly all over the place. I've been saving money so I can pay for the PPL once I am out. I really want to fly. It's all I've ever wanted to do.

I've known others that have done both the going to college while doing some flight training part time.

But the plan I always had was to make college the number one priority. So by your guys' answers I say I had the right idea. I was looking at the Computer Science field for awhile and then I noticed all the hardware aspects and the stuff I clicked with more were really more geared towards EE.

EDIT: I also like Tony's idea. I might try and do the CFI route while going to college. I've gone to college full time while being active duty. Don't see why it would be impossible to do CFI while going to college full time.
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I wouldn't bet my future on an A&P. You will barely make a living with an A&P. There are mechanics who are doing well at it, but that is not the norm, especially in GA. You almost have to have your own shop. If you work for an FBO, they will generally give you an employee discount on plane rental as an incentive to work for less than a living wage. Probably 10 to 15%. That isn't a lot of money when you get right down to it. My advice is go to college.
 
Gary F said:
Electrical engineering is a great field but think of it more as applied mathematics than practical electronics. If you can master calculus, differential equations and linear algebra you should do well.
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Boy ain't that the truth! I am back to working on the technical staff and 90% of my design work in telecommunication systems is mathematical. The only time I touch hardware other than a computer is when I using my cellphone to call someone to ask if they have system simulation results.
 
Jumping in late... Keep in mind that there's a wide world of other jobs out there.

This may be one of the easiest or only times in your life that you get to invent yourself on someone else's money.

Don't rule out other things outside of your job field in the military. EE is a great job, but what do you want to do with YOUR life?

Thanks for serving. You get to choose to be *anything* now. ;)
 
Go for the BSEE. Then you can get a job that will allow you to afford to fly. Yeah, I'm biased. I've been working as a EE for 36 years and flying for the past 11. Now, some of those guys might be playing with the math all the time. I haven't messed with a differential equation since college. It all depends on what you wind up doing. But, regardless, you'll be much better served by getting the degree.

I will say that the best trained technicians I've worked with over the years were ex-Navy ETs. You've got a good start there.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll do my research some of you are right about choosing something other than my field (electricity) for an engineering major. I might possibly look into MechE. I have a real knack for math even though sometimes it gets tedious. I just kinda hated it going through all my navy electronic courses as it wasn't helping me do my job at all.
 
Just FYI an instructor I know who is 20 years old and has around 700 hours mostly single engine instructing just landed a job with american eagle. He has no loan debt. One of my friends (smart guy too) graduated 2 years ago with an engineering degree from virginia tech and has finally landed a job but it does not pay very well. He worked 5 nights a week in a restaurant while in college, lived on a shoestring budget and still has tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

Hard work at either will eventually pay off, i'm sure both of my friends will have great careers. It seems my instructor friend is farther along however. Younger, no debt, and already working his way up the ladder at the regionals. If he invests and saves his money wisely starting now, instead of paying off loans for the next 5-10 years he may die a wealthier man than my engineer buddy even if he never earns a college degree and stays a regional pilot.
 
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dell30rb said:
Just FYI an instructor I know who is 20 years old and has around 700 hours mostly single engine instructing just landed a job with american eagle. He has no loan debt. One of my friends (smart guy too) graduated 2 years ago with an engineering degree from virginia tech and has finally landed a job but it does not pay very well. He worked 5 nights a week in a restaurant while in college, lived on a shoestring budget and still has tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

Hard work at either will eventually pay off, i'm sure both of my friends will have great careers. It seems my instructor friend is farther along however. Younger, no debt, and already working his way up the ladder at the regionals. If he invests and saves his money wisely starting now, instead of paying off loans for the next 5-10 years he may die a wealthier man than my engineer buddy even if he never earns a college degree and stays a regional pilot.
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Yeah 20 years old being the key. I'm not sure his situation but I have 1,000hrs the BS degree and twin time but I can't afford to take a job with American Eagle and keep up with my mortgage payments. I guess if your willing to live in crash pads and survive on ramen noodles go ahead. At least you'll be getting turbine time..

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I've blundered through my life like some sort of out of control missile. Whatever has presented itself to me during this uncontrolled spin, I have always worked hard at it and done the best that I possibly could.

This unplanned, aimless, take it as it comes approach, for some reason that I can not understand, has served me well over the years.

However, looking back, the one thing I do wish I had, was a decent education. If I had it to do over, I would have used my GI bill to go to college, perhaps even learn something that might be of use to me over the years.

If you had a degree in electrical engineering, you would more than likely be able to land yourself some sort of job that provides you a relatively nice income.

You will probably be able to afford flight lessons without government help. I was 67 when I received my pilots license, so you have plenty of time.

I walked away from school when I finished the ninth grade, completed my GED in the Army. Even with that little amount of education, I have done well, however, I know I would have done a whole lot better had I have been a little more formally educated.

Then there is the issue of what lies ahead in commercial aviation, will they even need or want pilots mucking things up and fiddling with stuff in their cockpits?

Get the engineering degree, the rest will come, if you want it.

John
 
John Baker said:
Quite often, free money does more harm than good to it's recipients.

John
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Hmm... tell that to all the folks who had their grandparents help with their education, or health issues, or...

Wealth=choices. What people do with those choices varies. Not having wealth means having far fewer choices.

I'm not wealthy, and it's not been a big goal for me, but I've lived long enough now and been both government-cheese poor and middle-class, and having the choices I have as a result of the wealth I earn is much better. I hope to leave wealth to my daughter (some of it in trust for the reasons you allude to) so that her life is better than mine was.
 
John Baker said:
Quite often, free money does more harm than good to it's recipients.
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TMetzinger said:
Hmm... tell that to all the folks who had their grandparents help with their education, or health issues, or...

Wealth=choices. What people do with those choices varies. Not having wealth means having far fewer choices.

I'm not wealthy, and it's not been a big goal for me, but I've lived long enough now and been both government-cheese poor and middle-class, and having the choices I have as a result of the wealth I earn is much better. I hope to leave wealth to my daughter (some of it in trust for the reasons you allude to) so that her life is better than mine was.
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I can see both points. Especially since my father-in-law made an excellent career out of being an Estate/Probate lawyer before retiring many years ago. The majority of his work was in Estate Planning before someone wealthy died, and in dealing with the squabbling kids after they died. He got paid for both. Smart.
 
Your right, look after your own. The other option is that your government will take charge of your life's accomplishments and wisely spend every penny of it, in less than 1/10th of a nano second.

Everything you've worked hard for all your life, is nothing more than an indiscernible blip on a government computer screen.

John
 
The only advice I can give you is while Engineering is a good, challenging occupation, if you actually like the “nuts and bolts” aspects of electronics, like troubleshooting, soldering, testing, etc., then you may want to re-think Engineering. Most engineers I have been associated with are a step away from that piece. In an electronics company for which I worked, for example, the Engineers designed stuff, but they had Engineering techs that built the designs. When components came back in for service, we had service techs that troubleshot & repaired the products. These same service techs also did installations at the customers’ locations and traveled all over the world. The Engineering and service techs had degrees in Electronics Technology.

There are 2-4 year degrees in Electronic Technology, and that would lead to a job where you are “working with your hands,” as opposed to a BSEE where you’ll be working with designs on paper or computer, and “doing the math” to make it work. The techs don't get the pay the Engineers do, but in some places, it's pretty close.

Good luck.
 
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