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Unkljohn

Unkljohn

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Unkljohn
Ok, I’ve found a plane that I really like, and am considering buying, it’s a 182S. My plan is to do my IFR training in my own plane.
Avionics:
Garmin GTN 650 GPS/NAV/COM w/ WAAS
Aspen PFD1000 Pro
KX 155 Nav/Com
KI 208 VOR/LOC Indicator
GTX-345 Transponder with ADS-B In/Out
KMA26 Audio Panel/Marker Beacon/4 Position Voice-Activated Intercom
KAP 140 Two Axis Autopilot with Electric Trim and Altitude Preselect WX900
Davtron Digital Clock

If you owned this plane, what if anything would you replace, and why?
Also what would you replace with?
I know the KX 155 Nav/Coms are prone to display problems, anything else?
My knowledge of avionics is very limited. I don’t want to buy this plane and have to break the bank upgrading avionics...
 
John that's a great suite as it will give you exposure to both the new and the old. Do you plan to only train in this aircraft, then upgrade?
 
Bob Weber said:
John that's a great suite as it will give you exposure to both the new and the old. Do you plan to only train in this aircraft, then upgrade?
Click to expand...
Thanks Bob, I think that I will likely keep this plane for a long time.
 
That GTN650 is proper.. at least from what I can tell in your description it sounds like you have a pretty solid plane on your hands..
 
You need to do NOTHING. Guys are paying big bucks to buy what you have. The Kx155 will need replacing a few years from now. Otherwise enjoy!

You will want a FS510 to up/download flight plans from ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot and the G650. Customer install item.
 
NordicDave said:
You need to do NOTHING. Guys are paying big bucks to buy what you have. The Kx155 will need replacing a few years from now. Otherwise enjoy!

You will want a FS510 to up/download flight plans from ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot and the G650. Customer install item.
Click to expand...

So what’s in the plane won’t play well w the IPad, but I can install a FS510 to make that happen?
Thanks for the reply!
 
Unkljohn said:
Thanks Bob, I think that I will likely keep this plane for a long time.
Click to expand...


This is where I like to preach the end game, where and how do you want to deal with the software driven components in your aircraft, in the soup.
 
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Good plane just hope it didn't break the bank 650 and 345 -- 20 installed
 
Add my vote to the "you don't need to do anything, it's a good choice as described".

Maybe change the audio panel eventually to a PS Engineering product. But for now, all other items will serve you will for your IFR training and beyond.
 
Sounds great as is. I'd probably upgrade the audio panel at the same time the KX-155 dies.
 
That clock has got to go.....


Just kidding. Sounds great. Jealous!
 
Unkljohn said:
Ok, I’ve found a plane that I really like, and am considering buying, it’s a 182S. My plan is to do my IFR training in my own plane.
Avionics:
Garmin GTN 650 GPS/NAV/COM w/ WAAS
Aspen PFD1000 Pro
KX 155 Nav/Com
KI 208 VOR/LOC Indicator
GTX-345 Transponder with ADS-B In/Out
KMA26 Audio Panel/Marker Beacon/4 Position Voice-Activated Intercom
KAP 140 Two Axis Autopilot with Electric Trim and Altitude Preselect WX900
Davtron Digital Clock

If you owned this plane, what if anything would you replace, and why?
Also what would you replace with?
I know the KX 155 Nav/Coms are prone to display problems, anything else?
My knowledge of avionics is very limited. I don’t want to buy this plane and have to break the bank upgrading avionics...
Click to expand...

The airframe, 182s are sooo blah ;)


It’s got some nice avionics, to the point it actually might not make for a ideal instrument trainer. .
 
Unkljohn said:
So what’s in the plane won’t play well w the IPad, but I can install a FS510 to make that happen?
Thanks for the reply!
Click to expand...

Your iPad will connect to the GTX345 just fine to get traffic and weather. But if you want to push flight plans and/or do database updates from the iPad, you'd need the FS510.
 
Unkljohn said:
So what’s in the plane won’t play well w the IPad, but I can install a FS510 to make that happen?
Thanks for the reply!
Click to expand...

The only component in the stack that will talk to an iPad is the GTX-345, which is great; (AHRS, FIS-B, TIS-B). The killer app is iPad talking to GTN-650. Install a Flight Stream 210 or FS 510. Really nice building a flight plan at home and unloading to the panel with one button press. Likewise flight plan changes in flight on one device are reflected on the other.
 
Unkljohn said:
Ok, I’ve found a plane that I really like, and am considering buying, it’s a 182S. My plan is to do my IFR training in my own plane.
Avionics:
Garmin GTN 650 GPS/NAV/COM w/ WAAS
Aspen PFD1000 Pro
KX 155 Nav/Com
KI 208 VOR/LOC Indicator
GTX-345 Transponder with ADS-B In/Out
KMA26 Audio Panel/Marker Beacon/4 Position Voice-Activated Intercom
KAP 140 Two Axis Autopilot with Electric Trim and Altitude Preselect WX900
Davtron Digital Clock

If you owned this plane, what if anything would you replace, and why?
Also what would you replace with?
I know the KX 155 Nav/Coms are prone to display problems, anything else?
My knowledge of avionics is very limited. I don’t want to buy this plane and have to break the bank upgrading avionics...
Click to expand...

Well, I'm really good at spending other peoples' money on avionics... :D But if you don't want to spend anything, don't! It's fine as is.

What you've got:
* Garmin GTN series are the state of the art navigators. Nothing to do here but replace it with a GTN 750 for the big screen! :D
* Aspen PFD1000 Pro is a nice unit. They have the "Pro Max" upgrade becoming available that will update some of the electronics and that is likely worth doing at some point, but not necessary to do right away.
* KX-155 is a nice radio. They are prone to display problems, and the new LED displays you can repair them with are so expensive you might as well get a new radio. Plan to replace it with a Garmin GNC 255 or the like if it croaks.
* KI-208 is what you want, until you replace the radio at least.
* GTX-345, like the GTNs, is state of the art for transponders. Nothing at all to do here.
* KMA26 is OK, and more up to date than the KMA24 a lot of people are probably thinking of... Unfortunately, there are no slide-in replacements for it, and audio panels are somewhat installation-labor-heavy. Leave it alone until it dies, then replace with something from PS Engineering, or possibly the Garmin GMA 350c (which will allow you to give voice commands to the GTN 650 as well as the audio panel).
* KAP 140: A decent one-generation-old autopilot. Probably not worth doing anything with yet. Be aware that Honeywell-Bendix/King has been charging ridiculous prices for repair components, so if it fails, you may want to consider the Garmin GFC 500 (and the G5 that goes with it).
* WX-900: Well, Stormscopes are interesting but IMO not the most useful tools for storm avoidance these days. Sure looks cool on the panel though.
* Davtron: Nothing to add here, although Mid-Continent makes a nice digital clock with a pair of USB charging ports.

What you could get:
* FlightStream 510 will allow you to do flight plan transfer between an iPad (running ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot) and the 650 and also to update the databases on the 650 via the iPad. $1500, and worth every penny if you ask me.

At this point I could go nuts here and spend all your money, but that's not what you asked for. I think you're fine for now, I've outlined some options for if/when things fail, and really the only thing that would make it significantly better for not much money at this point is the FlightStream. I say, buy it and fly the heck out of it!
 
Unkljohn said:
Ok, I’ve found a plane that I really like, and am considering buying, it’s a 182S. My plan is to do my IFR training in my own plane.
Avionics:
Garmin GTN 650 GPS/NAV/COM w/ WAAS
Aspen PFD1000 Pro
KX 155 Nav/Com
KI 208 VOR/LOC Indicator
GTX-345 Transponder with ADS-B In/Out
KMA26 Audio Panel/Marker Beacon/4 Position Voice-Activated Intercom
KAP 140 Two Axis Autopilot with Electric Trim and Altitude Preselect WX900
Davtron Digital Clock

If you owned this plane, what if anything would you replace, and why?
Also what would you replace with?
I know the KX 155 Nav/Coms are prone to display problems, anything else?
My knowledge of avionics is very limited. I don’t want to buy this plane and have to break the bank upgrading avionics...
Click to expand...

sounds like a decent panel to me. If everything works well I wouldn’t mess with it.
 
Put me in the "Do nothing, good to go" camp. This sounds like a nicely equipped panel, very well suited for IFR training and flight. Yes, you can build a bells-and-whistles wish list all day, and, some of the older pieces (KX155) may fail in the future, but there's really nothing you must have immediately. And, with a new purchase, there may be some other unexpected maintenance issues more pressing than avionics upgrades.
 
* KAP 140: A decent one-generation-old autopilot. Probably not worth doing anything with yet. Be aware that Honeywell-Bendix/King has been charging ridiculous prices for repair components, so if it fails, you may want to consider the Garmin GFC 500 (and the G5 that goes with it).

Pretty much the point I was attempting to make, look for the endgame of the GFC 500, I would never install another manufactures equipment that has critical communication with navigation or flight control. When I have lived this issue in the past, the manufacturers simply pointed at each other in blame. Imagine sitting in KATL and choose to do a software update while waiting for a passenger, then be grounded for a week trying to sort out what just happened.
 
I would add GPSS if you currently don’t have that capability.
 
Fly it see how you like it,make upgrades as they are needed.
 
Unkljohn said:
If you owned this plane, what if anything would you replace, and why?
.
Click to expand...

Nothing. Spend the money on avgas and fly it.

You’ll know if something about the panel doesn’t meet your needs or desires after flying it a while.
 
Ryan Klems said:
Your iPad will connect to the GTX345 just fine to get traffic and weather. But if you want to push flight plans and/or do database updates from the iPad, you'd need the FS510.
Click to expand...

Also traffic to the iPad and easy database updates from Concierge in Garmin Pilot.

It’s not critical but it’s nice.

Also since Ryan abbreviated it, he’s talking about the Flightstream 510. An SD card sized device that fits in one of the card slots on the GTN and provides not only storage for updates but also WiFi for preflight database updates and Bluetooth for in flight tablet connectivity to the panel. ADSB IN data (traffic, weather, all of it) is sent up the bus to the GTN for display there and the GTN shares it to any connected tablets as well as the changes to flight plans in the panel go to the tablet or the tablet can push them (with an approval) into the GTN.

Runs about $1500 installed for something the size of your thumb. LOL. But useful.
 
Flightstream 510 is a killer little piece of equipment that really integrates the iPad into the panel, rather than being a display for traffic and weather. The two way flight plan sync and database concierge are awesome features, hard to fully appreciate until you've tried it. When I added mine, I was blown away.

If you have the coin to install a GTX345 and GTN650, my suggestion would be not to let yourself get stopped short of spending that last $1.5k. Yes, it's a lot for a little SD card, but I'm betting you'll agree it's well worth it.
 
A Flightstream is the only thing I'd say it "needs."

Second, the moment that audio panel starts to give you trouble I'd throw it away and put in a PS Engineering product. Can't imagine why the person that did the avionics upgrade spent the money they did and left that POS audio panel in there. An audio panel upgrade is some of the best money you can spend.
 
bradg33 said:
A Flightstream is the only thing I'd say it "needs."

Second, the moment that audio panel starts to give you trouble I'd throw it away and put in a PS Engineering product. Can't imagine why the person that did the avionics upgrade spent the money they did and left that POS audio panel in there. An audio panel upgrade is some of the best money you can spend.
Click to expand...

Because they're expensive to install, especially if you need to run stereo jacks to the whole cabin. And if it's already working, it'll probably keep working.

I have a very old King KMA-24 which I've almost replaced a handful of times now, but I just couldn't bear to pull the trigger. It works fine... and what would I get for the installation price?

The audio quality is fine. The airplane is equipped with four bluetooth enabled ANR headsets (combo of Bose A20s and Lightspeed Zulus.) Everyone has excellent music. The ability to receive and transmit is unimpaired.

Yes, if you do the installation at the same time as the other gear, the cost will be less -- but not substantially so. There's still a ton of wiring involved. Especially if your audio panel is connected to a separate intercom (mine is).

It's the one thing I hate looking at in my otherwise very attractive panel (GTN650, GTX345, G5, etc.) but it works just fine. When it breaks, that will be the time to replace it.
 
Ryan F. said:
Because they're expensive to install, especially if you need to run stereo jacks to the whole cabin. And if it's already working, it'll probably keep working.

I have a very old King KMA-24 which I've almost replaced a handful of times now, but I just couldn't bear to pull the trigger. It works fine... and what would I get for the installation price?

The audio quality is fine. The airplane is equipped with four bluetooth enabled ANR headsets (combo of Bose A20s and Lightspeed Zulus.) Everyone has excellent music. The ability to receive and transmit is unimpaired.

Yes, if you do the installation at the same time as the other gear, the cost will be less -- but not substantially so. There's still a ton of wiring involved. Especially if your audio panel is connected to a separate intercom (mine is).

It's the one thing I hate looking at in my otherwise very attractive panel (GTN650, GTX345, G5, etc.) but it works just fine. When it breaks, that will be the time to replace it.
Click to expand...

My point is the same as yours above re: the FS510 - if you're gonna spend the money that this panel cost, stopping ~$3k short by not installing a modern audio panel is just foolish. I had a Narco audio panel and separate intercom in my airplane. It worked "fine" too. Then I put in a PSE 8000BT. The difference is huge, and I wish I'd ponied up the cash for a new panel a long time ago.
 
bradg33 said:
My point is the same as yours above re: the FS510 - if you're gonna spend the money that this panel cost, stopping ~$3k short by not installing a modern audio panel is just foolish. I had a Narco audio panel and separate intercom in my airplane. It worked "fine" too. Then I put in a PSE 8000BT. The difference is huge, and I wish I'd ponied up the cash for a new panel a long time ago.
Click to expand...

I understand. It's all subjective. But to me, the impressive additional capability of the FS510 (with zero installation cost or time required) trumps slightly better audio quality from a $5k installation.

(That said, if you DO need to replace an audio panel, I say go all out and get the best -- they cost so much to install, you might as well.)
 
Clip4 said:
I would add GPSS if you currently don’t have that capability.
Click to expand...

The Aspen has GPSS built in. :thumbsup:

Ryan F. said:
Because they're expensive to install, especially if you need to run stereo jacks to the whole cabin. And if it's already working, it'll probably keep working.

I have a very old King KMA-24 which I've almost replaced a handful of times now, but I just couldn't bear to pull the trigger. It works fine... and what would I get for the installation price?

The audio quality is fine. The airplane is equipped with four bluetooth enabled ANR headsets (combo of Bose A20s and Lightspeed Zulus.) Everyone has excellent music. The ability to receive and transmit is unimpaired.
Click to expand...

FWIW, the first time I flew a plane with a PS Engineering panel installed, I was an instant convert. It was the most noticeable nice thing about the plane. No more 1/2-1 second before the squelch breaks, etc... It worked beautifully.

And you have no excuse as far as installation goes, either, since the PS Engineering 7000 series is a direct slide-in replacement for your KMA 24. You can install it yourself. ;)

https://www.ps-engineering.com/PMA7000_Series.shtml
 
Even our old PS Engineering with manual squelch for the intercom itself, still sounds way better than any Garmin audio panel I’ve flown behind. Garmin messes with the audio in an attempt to make it more intelligible and manages to make it sound flat and mid-range pushed.

Kinda like pretending Bose or those gawd-awful Beats headphones are in any way audiophile gear for music. LOL.
 
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