Question regarding the purchase of a plane

M

meeverett

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
4
Location
Friendsville, TN
Display Name
Display name:
Matt E.
On a recent craigslist prowl, I came across a Bonanza (Reg: N419E) that was listed for sale. The plane looks great and sounds like a decent aircraft. Further online examination yielded a handful of links to an unsuccessful eBay auction. Well, long story short, I decided emailing the guy on the listing couldn't hurt (that much). I received a reply today, which I would like to paste below.

My question is, if I were to follow through with this, how bad do you think I would be getting screwed? Does anyone have any experience with this kind of transaction?

Hello,and sorry for the delay
From the beginning you have to know that for the payment I request only secure
pay, I prefer the payment to be done using eBay services.
We will use a safe payment method because I am affiliated at eBay and I have a
purchase protection account for $20,000.
The final price that I want for this airplane is 10,000$ shipping/handling
included.
If you are interested in buying it please provide me your full name and
address so I can initiate the deal through eBay.
The airplane is already at the shipping company in Miami,Florida sealed and ready
for the shipping. I have a contract with eBay so this deal must go through
them. I'm very busy with my job and I am out of town on bussiness therefor I
can't meet in person with you so this is the reason why I chosed to sell my
airplane over the internet at a fair price i would say.According to eBay you have
5 days from the time you receive the airplane to inspect it and decide if you want
to keep it or not.
If you decide not to keep it you can send it back for a full refund.Here is
how it will work:

1.First of all I will need the following details from you:
- Full Name
- Full Shipping Address
2. After I will receive the details from you, I will forward them to eBay.
3. After they will process your info, they will send us both invoices.
The invoice will send you the details on how to make a refundable deposit.

4. After you receive the airplane you will have 5 days to test, verify and do
whatever you need with the airplane.If you will buy, then I will receive the
payment details from eBay so that I can pick up the the deposit.You have 5 days
after your receive the airplane to send the full payment or return the airplane.
5. If you will decide that you will not buy the airplane , eBay will refund the
money and I will have the shipping company come pick up my airplane If you wish to
make the transaction, please send me the necessary info so that we can
proceed. I look forward to hear from you.
Best Regards
p.s. if you have any more questions please feel free to ask me by mail and i will be happy to answer

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Everett
To: rndgrvs
Sent: Thu, Jul 8, 2010 9:06 am
Subject: N419E

I recently came across your listing for N419E a 1948 Beechcraft

Bonanza 35 on craigslist. I am curious about the aircraft. Can you
tell me more about it?

I am looking for a relatively economical four-place aircraft for
instrument training and time building. I am a young and (very)
passionate private pilot with lots of dreams, I just haven't found a
decent way to pay for regular flying time renting. Your aircraft
looks like a perfect match for me.

Is it still available? If so, where is it located?

I would like to know the typical cruising speed, fuel burn and
altitude just to get an idea of a typical flight. Also, I'm curious
about the panel, can you give me a rough idea of the instrumentation
and avionics?

Do you have any images of the interior?

Is the aircraft ready to fly or will it require work?

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/for/1814101462.html​
 
THIS IS A SCAM

Hopefully that got your attention. Do not proceed. Do not even consider it. You will be without money and without plane. I'll break things down in another post.
 
My opinion is with Bill on this one Matt. Also IMHO you should skip the personal info in dealing with any sale. To say you are a young and very passionate PP is like saying I am soooo desperate to fly. Keep it to business.
 
I don't know how to make big red letters, but this is a scam.

The seller wants you to use ebay payment services. There is no such thing. They will tell you to send the money to their ebay 'agent', but the check will be made out to a private individual.

You'll see lots of $2900 cars listed on Craigslist, because Western Union has less stringent requirements for payments under $3,000.

Even if you send the check to their 'agent', I suspect that person is simply a mule. Some poor slob who answered an employment ad where they 'process payments'. They will write a check to the real scammer, and end up holding the bag when you go looking for the plane.

They usually take an expired listing and copy it.

If you want, post the scammer's email address (it's always a gmail, hotmail, or live.com address) and I'll play with them. I like to get their hopes up.

I have an email account set up and use the name and address of another scammer, so if they come knocking, it will be on another scammer's door.
 
First and foremost: eBay does absolutely NO services off site. They do not do buyer protection for off site purchases, nor do they offer escrow services for off site purchases. If it's not on eBay, it's not eBay.

The 'invoice' is complete crap. You'll get some vaguely 'real' sounding email about how you need to go to this site and enter your information (including bank account info) and/or wire money to them via Western Union.

The airplane is already at the shipping company in Miami,Florida sealed and ready for the shipping. I have a contract with eBay so this deal must go through them. I'm very busy with my job and I am out of town on bussiness therefor I can't meet in person with you so this is the reason why I chosed to sell my airplane over the internet at a fair price i would say.
Click to expand...
This is about the number one red flag (in addition to the eBay bit). ANY ANY ANY post where the seller talks about the item being ready for shipment and he unfortunately cannot meet to facilitate the sale is a scam, plain and simple.

Always be skeptical with online sales. More so than in person. Be safe, and good luck on your search!
 
Last edited:
Steve Foley said:
I don't know how to make big red letters, but this is a scam.

The seller wants you to use ebay payment services. There is no such thing. They will tell you to send the money to their ebay 'agent', but the check will be made out to a private individual.

You'll see lots of $2900 cars listed on Craigslist, because Western Union has less stringent requirements for payments under $3,000.

Even if you send the check to their 'agent', I suspect that person is simply a mule. Some poor slob who answered an employment ad where they 'process payments'. They will write a check to the real scammer, and end up holding the bag when you go looking for the plane.

They usually take an expired listing and copy it.

If you want, post the scammer's email address (it's always a gmail, hotmail, or live.com address) and I'll play with them. I like to get their hopes up.

I have an email account set up and use the name and address of another scammer, so if they come knocking, it will be on another scammer's door.
Click to expand...

Steve, the email is in the posting listed in the pasted email. It's an aol address. I thought about playing with him, but I've actually got work today. Have fun ;)
 
The airplane is already at the shipping company in Miami,Florida sealed and ready for the shipping.
Click to expand...

Note: Nobody uses a 'shipping company' for an airplane.
 
wbarnhill said:
Steve, the email is in the posting listed in the pasted email. It's an aol address. I thought about playing with him, but I've actually got work today. Have fun ;)
Click to expand...

Already found it, and sent "inquiry". I'll report back on my progress.
 
wbarnhill said:
THIS IS A SCAM
Click to expand...
William says it all!!! You need not and SHOULD not pursue the matter with this seller any longer.

IMHO 99 and 44/100 of stuff on Craiglists is scam related.

If you are looking for planes there are far better places to shop. ASO.com, AOPA Classified, Trade-a-plane, Controller, Barnstormer, etc. are the places to look.
 
FYI:

N419E USA Aircraft Registration Details

Here are the N Number lookup rego search results for 'N419E'.
The FAA aircraft registration database was last refreshed from the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 20/Jul/2010
Manufacturer: BEECH Model: 35 Serial: D-1425 Owner Owner Name: NEY WALTER A
- NEY LINDA M Registrant Type: Co-Owned Last Action Date: 03 Oct 2007 Owner Address: 22304 FAIRVIEW RD
GRETNA, NE, 68028-6328
US
Status: N-Number Assigned and Registered

why is the aircraft in Florida?
 
Scam!

I've had good luck with CriagsList, but for things like cars and motorcycles. Nobody sells a plane on CraigsList. You'll never see your money again.

Adam was also correct. Keep it to business. Purchasing a plane is a serious business matter and can cost you a lot of money if done wrong (well, it'll cost you a lot of money if done right, too). Good asking questions, though!
 
ScottM said:
IMHO 99 and 44/100 of stuff on Craiglists is scam related.
Click to expand...

It's sad but true. If you look at almost every page on craigslist, it tells you to deal locally. That is why there are so many different location specific pages.

Deal locally, and in cash. The biggest chance I took buying something on craigslist was a cell phone. I forgot my glasses, so couldn't activate it right then and there. I had to wait until I got home to activate it.

It worked fine.

If I'm buying something that will be mailed/shipped, I use paypal through my credit card. I've never been stiffed.
 
I sent the seller an email. We'll see if he responds.

My email:
I saw your ad for the Beechcraft Bonanza 35, registration number N419E on Craigslist.

I am very interested in that type of aircraft and am in the market to acquire a new plane. I was wondering if you could tell a little more. What type of avionics are in the panel (does it have a Garmin 430 or 530?), when was the last annual inspection, what are the TTAF and SMOH numbers as well as the last pitot static check. Any major damage recorded?

Also if you have any additional pictures that would be great too.

Fred.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred Bukakke
Click to expand...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Scam!

I've had good luck with CriagsList, but for things like cars and motorcycles. Nobody sells a plane on CraigsList. You'll never see your money again.
Click to expand...

I have seem this scam on Craigslist for cars, too. My BIL sent me a page where a "lady" was selling a Range Rover that booked at $30k for $12k. Said she was "going through a divorce." When he forwarded me her email response, it was almost identical to the one in the OP.
 
rpadula said:
I have seem this scam on Craigslist for cars, too. My BIL sent me a page where a "lady" was selling a Range Rover that booked at $30k for $12k. Said she was "going through a divorce." When he forwarded me her email response, it was almost identical to the one in the OP.
Click to expand...

Sure, I've seen them as well. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. But I have bought and sold several cars and motorcycles through CraigsList with good results in all cases.

I could see a '48 Bonanza selling for $10k, but it wouldn't look like that if it did.

As for Mr. Bukkake:

Dear sir, it is of great importance that I purchase your 1948 BEECHCRAFT BONANANANZA AEROPLAIN. Is it still for sale? I will purchase it from you for $500,000 (two million dollars).

To the OP: Hope you don't think we're having fun at your expense. We aren't, it's at the scammer's expense. You asked a good question and I had times when I wanted to believe scams like that were true as well. Once or twice I got scammed. Fortunately, it never cost me $10,000, but it has cost me in the past.
 
Last edited:
ScottM said:
FYI:

N419E USA Aircraft Registration Details

Here are the N Number lookup rego search results for 'N419E'.
The FAA aircraft registration database was last refreshed from the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 20/Jul/2010
Manufacturer: BEECH Model: 35 Serial: D-1425 Owner Owner Name: NEY WALTER A
- NEY LINDA M Registrant Type: Co-Owned Last Action Date: 03 Oct 2007 Owner Address: 22304 FAIRVIEW RD
GRETNA, NE, 68028-6328
US
Status: N-Number Assigned and Registered

why is the aircraft in Florida?
Click to expand...

I'd contact the owner directly. He may have no idea that there's a scam going on with his N-number....
 
Ted DuPuis said:
To the OP: Hope you don't think we're having fun at your expense. We aren't, it's at the scammer's expense. You asked a good question and I had times when I wanted to believe scams like that were true as well. Once or twice I got scammed. Fortunately, it never cost me $10,000, but it has cost me in the past.
Click to expand...

It would take a lot more than that to hurt my feelings. I got some good laughs out of some of the responses. The email address (rndgrvs@aol.com) can be found in the link to the listing from craigslist.

Regarding the aircraft in question. I figured this looked pretty scammy, but I was curious and the Google searching didn't turn up a ton of additional information. I haven't responded or done anything and even if I did it won't be legitimate. I just thought I would poll the crowd and make sure my initial reaction to an email that answered none of my questions was good. I mean none of those questions was particularly difficult...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
To the OP: Hope you don't think we're having fun at your expense. We aren't, it's at the scammer's expense. You asked a good question and I had times when I wanted to believe scams like that were true as well. Once or twice I got scammed. Fortunately, it never cost me $10,000, but it has cost me in the past.
Click to expand...


Well said Ted.
 
ScottM said:
I sent the seller an email. We'll see if he responds.

My email:

I saw your ad for the Beechcraft Bonanza 35, registration number N419E on Craigslist.

I am very interested in that type of aircraft and am in the market to acquire a new plane. I was wondering if you could tell a little more. What type of avionics are in the panel (does it have a Garmin 430 or 530?), when was the last annual inspection, what are the TTAF and SMOH numbers as well as the last pitot static check. Any major damage recorded?

Also if you have any additional pictures that would be great too.

Fred.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred Bukakke
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'd love to see if this douche replies. :lol:
 
meeverett said:
On a recent craigslist prowl, I came across a Bonanza (Reg: N419E) that was listed for sale. The plane looks great and sounds like a decent aircraft. Further online examination yielded a handful of links to an unsuccessful eBay auction. Well, long story short, I decided emailing the guy on the listing couldn't hurt (that much). I received a reply today, which I would like to paste below.

My question is, if I were to follow through with this, how bad do you think I would be getting screwed? Does anyone have any experience with this kind of transaction?
Hello,and sorry for the delay
From the beginning you have to know that for the payment I request only secure
pay, I prefer the payment to be done using eBay services.
We will use a safe payment method because I am affiliated at eBay and I have a
purchase protection account for $20,000.
The final price that I want for this airplane is 10,000$ shipping/handling
included.
If you are interested in buying it please provide me your full name and
address so I can initiate the deal through eBay.
The airplane is already at the shipping company in Miami,Florida sealed and ready
for the shipping. I have a contract with eBay so this deal must go through
them. I'm very busy with my job and I am out of town on bussiness therefor I
can't meet in person with you so this is the reason why I chosed to sell my
airplane over the internet at a fair price i would say.According to eBay you have
5 days from the time you receive the airplane to inspect it and decide if you want
to keep it or not.
If you decide not to keep it you can send it back for a full refund.Here is
how it will work:

1.First of all I will need the following details from you:
- Full Name
- Full Shipping Address
2. After I will receive the details from you, I will forward them to eBay.
3. After they will process your info, they will send us both invoices.
The invoice will send you the details on how to make a refundable deposit.

4. After you receive the airplane you will have 5 days to test, verify and do
whatever you need with the airplane.If you will buy, then I will receive the
payment details from eBay so that I can pick up the the deposit.You have 5 days
after your receive the airplane to send the full payment or return the airplane.
5. If you will decide that you will not buy the airplane , eBay will refund the
money and I will have the shipping company come pick up my airplane If you wish to
make the transaction, please send me the necessary info so that we can
proceed. I look forward to hear from you.
Best Regards
p.s. if you have any more questions please feel free to ask me by mail and i will be happy to answer

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Everett
To: rndgrvs
Sent: Thu, Jul 8, 2010 9:06 am
Subject: N419E

I recently came across your listing for N419E a 1948 Beechcraft

Bonanza 35 on craigslist. I am curious about the aircraft. Can you
tell me more about it?

I am looking for a relatively economical four-place aircraft for
instrument training and time building. I am a young and (very)
passionate private pilot with lots of dreams, I just haven't found a
decent way to pay for regular flying time renting. Your aircraft
looks like a perfect match for me.

Is it still available? If so, where is it located?

I would like to know the typical cruising speed, fuel burn and
altitude just to get an idea of a typical flight. Also, I'm curious
about the panel, can you give me a rough idea of the instrumentation
and avionics?

Do you have any images of the interior?

Is the aircraft ready to fly or will it require work?

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/for/1814101462.html​
Click to expand...
EBAY DOES NOT DO ESCROW. TOTAL SCAM.

They are running it on trucks, jet skis and now.. airplanes. The scam typically involves selling something for a fraction of its actual value. They are very sophisticated.. but the key is.. you can never go actually SEE the for sale object.. you have to trust in "escrow" which the kind they are talking about does not exist.
 
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