Question for the Train Peeps

SkyHog

SkyHog

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Everything Offends Me
On the train to work today, I saw an offshoot of the mail rail that heads off to the east between Santo Domingo and Cochiti, and there was a little white sign on the right side of the track, permanently mounted, that says "DERAIL."

What is that sign for?

Also - along the track, there are little white signs with a single number on it also. What are those signs for?
 
SkyHog said:
On the train to work today, I saw an offshoot of the mail rail that heads off to the east between Santo Domingo and Cochiti, and there was a little white sign on the right side of the track, permanently mounted, that says "DERAIL."
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Sign posted by this guy? :rofl::rofl:
 

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Not sure about the numbered signs.

As for derailers, there's a device that is next to the track that flips over onto the rail that is designed to lift the wheels up and off the track. There are also ones permanently mounted on a side track. If a train hits those, it's suddenly offroading and the ride is over. It's kind of like those runaway truck places you see in the real mountains.
 
fgcason said:
Not sure about the numbered signs.

As for derailers, there's a device that is next to the track that flips over onto the rail that is designed to lift the wheels up and off the track. There are also ones permanently mounted on a side track. If a train hits those, it's suddenly offroading and the ride is over. It's kind of like those runaway truck places you see in the real mountains.
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They have the truck runaways in the Appies too.
 
SkyHog said:
On the train to work today, I saw an offshoot of the mail rail that heads off to the east between Santo Domingo and Cochiti, and there was a little white sign on the right side of the track, permanently mounted, that says "DERAIL."

What is that sign for?

Also - along the track, there are little white signs with a single number on it also. What are those signs for?
Click to expand...
Just emailed the above to a train engineer.
 
SkyHog said:
This one is white with black letters, not blue with white, though, and there's nothing visibly sticking out on the rail.
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huh - maybe there is a derail system farther down the line and this sign is an advance warning? Maybe it's a marker for where a derail would be attached if necessary? I dunno.
 
Matthew said:
huh - maybe there is a derail system farther down the line and this sign is an advance warning? Maybe it's a marker for where a derail would be attached if necessary? I dunno.
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Or it could be something stupid about the way New Mexico runs their rail lines. Wouldn't surprise me.

LOL!

Edit: Maybe this weekend, I'll take a drive over and see if I can get a close up photo of it.
 
The "shoe" is hinged, and can either be lying on the rail, shaped like a big shoe-horn at a 45-degree angle to guide the wheel up and off of the track, or it can be lying along side the rail where it is not visible unless you know where to look. If any railcars cars are parked in the spur or passing track that would pose a threat to the mainline traffic (if they started to roll) the derail will be in position. If not, and if the next time the spur will be used is to enter the spur, the derail may be lying alongside. Or that's the way they were when I was a brakeman on the Santa Fe during college. Wanna see my lantern?

SkyHog said:
This one is white with black letters, not blue with white, though, and there's nothing visibly sticking out on the rail.
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SkyHog said:
Does the TSA handle Train Tracks? Honest question.
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Yes. But more importantly the railroads own security also watches them as do local police. You probably would get away with it, but you may get stopped and questioned. Most likely the worst thing to happen is a warning or charge of trespassing.

The mission of TSA's Rail Passenger Security group is to protect the nation's railroad passengers, employees, and properties.
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http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/rail/index.shtm
 
smigaldi said:
Yes. But more importantly the railroads own security also watches them as do local police. You probably would get away with it, but you may get stopped and questioned. Most likely the worst thing to happen is a warning or charge of trespassing.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/rail/index.shtm
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Just out of curiosity, if its a private track offshoot of the main line (and I think it may be), do I run the same risk?
 
SkyHog said:
Just out of curiosity, if its a private track offshoot of the main line (and I think it may be), do I run the same risk?
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I don't know. Hopefully Keith will see this and be able to respond.

I know that the Union Pacific lines around my house have been patrolled by local police and are handing out trespassing tickets to the people caught walking the tracks between towns.
 
Just keep your eyes open and you'll see one that's easily accessible from the road. They are all the same, and the sign is there so the train crew and the engine crew will know where it is located. Generally speaking, the derail is located far enough from the main-line switch that an errant car (or train) wouldn't foul the main line if a derailment occurred.
SkyHog said:
Just out of curiosity, if its a private track offshoot of the main line (and I think it may be), do I run the same risk?
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Looking at Satellite maps, it appears that section of track is owned by Amtrak....
 
SkyHog said:
Does the TSA handle Train Tracks? Honest question.
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There are generally raidroad police officers employed by the railroad that often have full arrest / police powers.

wikipedia said:
Some railroad police officers are certified law enforcement officers and may carry full police and arrest powers. The appointment, commissioning and regulation of railroad police under Section 1704 of the U.S. Crime Control Act of 1990, provides that: "A railroad police officer who is certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of any one state shall, in accordance with the regulations issued by the U. S. Secretary of Transportation, be authorized to enforce the laws of any other state in which the rail carrier owns property."
It is important to note that Section 1704 also states that this police authority is to "the extent of the authority of a police officer certified or commissioned under the laws of that jurisdiction". While a railroad police officer may have general peace officer authority in some states such as California, they are limited to the railroad's property in other states.
The status of railroad police officers varies by state, in that they are commissioned by the Governor of the state in which they reside and/or work in and they may carry both state level arrest powers and some interstate arrest powers as allowed by 49 USC 28101. Although railroad police primarily enforce laws on or near the railroad right-of-way, their police officers can enforce other laws and make arrests off of railroad property depending on the state in which they are working.
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It always seemed odd to me that they had their own police employed by the company...but..that's just how it is.

The Amtrak police logo:
207px-40986984.AmtrakPolice.JPG
 
A derail (pronounced deerail) is a device that when used will intentionally cause a rail car to come off the rail. There are 2 basic types. A permanent derail, such as the one you saw, which has a sign, and a portable derail which can be put on a rail, and is carried in a truck by a worker. The reason you'd want to derail a car it to protect someone or something on the other side of the derail from getting hit by a runaway, or to prevent a car or locomotive from running into a work zone where people are present. The derail can be locked either in the derail position or locked "out" to let trains pass over it. A good example of a use would be at a siding for a factory or business. If the brakes on the car are released. and the car rolls toward the main line, it derails before fouling the track, causing mayhem and widespread death. I've been involved in just such an investigation where a loaded lumber car rolled out on the main line, traveled for 2 miles before striking a passenger train head on. This one in the picture is set to derail the cars.

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According to Hubby, who is a rail fan, the numbers are mile markers. If there is a 'W' on the sign, it means "blow the whistle".

He agrees with the explanations in post #2 and #21.
 
Two more:

What does a white circular sign with a black "D" on it symbolize?

Also, by every bridge we cross is a sign, but I can't see it due to our speed. What is that sign?
 
Two more:

What does a white circular sign with a black "D" on it symbolize?

Also, by every bridge we cross is a sign, but I can't see it due to our speed. What is that sign?
 
SkyHog said:
Two more:

What does a white circular sign with a black "D" on it symbolize?

Also, by every bridge we cross is a sign, but I can't see it due to our speed. What is that sign?
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The "D" is most likely a derail. not positive though. Hafta check.

The sign at every bridge is probably a warning to people to stay off the bridge. Every year we defend the railroads against lawsuits when somebody gets killed from being out on the bridge. In a Florida case we are working on right now, two teenagers were fishing on the trestle. Train comes along visible for over a minute one guy makes it off, the other is clipped, and in the fall to the ground has a head injury and is killed. They had been warned off the bridge several times by the RR Police. When the local Sheriff's Office went looking for the survivor the next day to interview him, they found him fishing off the same bridge. The sign is a lawyer's way of being able to say that the trespasser was warned at the time he/she went out there.
 
SkyHog said:
On the train to work today, I saw an offshoot of the mail rail that heads off to the east between Santo Domingo and Cochiti, and there was a little white sign on the right side of the track, permanently mounted, that says "DERAIL."

What is that sign for?

Also - along the track, there are little white signs with a single number on it also. What are those signs for?
Click to expand...
Response from train engineer:
Derail - There is a device called a "derail." It is used on tracks where cars are placed or set-out to prevent them from rolling out onto the main track, or in some cases to prevent them from rolling over crossings. All permanent derails must have a sign marking there location. Some have white signs with "D" or "DERAIL" marked on them, some just use shoebox sized red signs.

Numbers - Sounds a lot like a mile post to me. Tracks have mile markers along them much like roadways. Although with there only being on number, It could be used to mark with track number you are on.. Were they all 1 or 2 or 3 etc... or did they seem to change?
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New question:

While riding the train this morning, I noticed that some bridges have a second rail in the center...any clue what it's for? It looks like this (sort of):
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jesse said:
Response from train engineer:
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Thanks Jesse.

I had a better view today, and they're definitely mile markers. I learned something new too - the single digit signs are mile markers as well, but only for the brand new track that was built for the New Mexico Railrunner. The rest of the tracks are Amtrak tracks (and they're in hundreds of miles), but there's only 9.5 miles of new tracks built by NMRX. Neat stuff.

There's a new sign I'm curious about....its a rectangular sign, with the top half being red, and the bottom half being yellow, with no words on it. Idea?
 
Keith Lane said:
The "D" is most likely a derail. not positive though. Hafta check.

The sign at every bridge is probably a warning to people to stay off the bridge. Every year we defend the railroads against lawsuits when somebody gets killed from being out on the bridge. In a Florida case we are working on right now, two teenagers were fishing on the trestle. Train comes along visible for over a minute one guy makes it off, the other is clipped, and in the fall to the ground has a head injury and is killed. They had been warned off the bridge several times by the RR Police. When the local Sheriff's Office went looking for the survivor the next day to interview him, they found him fishing off the same bridge. The sign is a lawyer's way of being able to say that the trespasser was warned at the time he/she went out there.
Click to expand...

I had a much better view today, and you are 100% correct, the signs by each bridge say "WARNING: NMDOT Railroad. KEEP OFF BRIDGE"
 
AuntPeggy said:
According to Hubby, who is a rail fan, the numbers are mile markers. If there is a 'W' on the sign, it means "blow the whistle".

He agrees with the explanations in post #2 and #21.
Click to expand...

I learned something else today too....the W sometimes has "QZ" under it, which means "Quiet Zone." When the engineer passes a W-QZ sign, instead of blowing the whistle, he turns on the bells and the flashing lights, but doesn't blow the whistle.

Also - the whistle always goes: LOOOOOOONG LOOOOOONG short LOOOOOOONG. Is there a meaning to that?
 
Keith Lane said:
A derail (pronounced deerail) is a device that when used will intentionally cause a rail car to come off the rail. There are 2 basic types. A permanent derail, such as the one you saw, which has a sign, and a portable derail which can be put on a rail, and is carried in a truck by a worker. The reason you'd want to derail a car it to protect someone or something on the other side of the derail from getting hit by a runaway, or to prevent a car or locomotive from running into a work zone where people are present. The derail can be locked either in the derail position or locked "out" to let trains pass over it. A good example of a use would be at a siding for a factory or business. If the brakes on the car are released. and the car rolls toward the main line, it derails before fouling the track, causing mayhem and widespread death. I've been involved in just such an investigation where a loaded lumber car rolled out on the main line, traveled for 2 miles before striking a passenger train head on. This one in the picture is set to derail the cars.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

I had a better view today....there is most definitely a derail right next to the sign, but its an interesting one. It has one of those switchover rail thingies that lets you change between tracks, except it simply switches you off the rail and onto the dirt next to it. I suppose it accomplishes the same goal, however.
 
SkyHog said:
New question:

While riding the train this morning, I noticed that some bridges have a second rail in the center...any clue what it's for? It looks like this (sort of):
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The extra rail is called a guard rail. If a wheel climbs over the rail, the other wheel falls down between the other main (called the running rail) and the guard rail trapping it so that the car cannot get crosswise enough that the train derails on the bridge. These are used almost exclusively on bridges. There is another type of rail, really a rail "system" used in subway tunnels that has two rails made together on the inside rail of a curve to prevent those CNN moments from occurring in tunnels with lots of passengers on board.
 
On the Sant Fe line, a red over yellow signal meant "proceed at restricted speed." They were usually lighted round signals back then, but if your line has specific places where the speed is restricted at all times, those signals would make sense.

What you saw at the derail location is what we have previously described. "Derail" means the wheel is no longer on the rail, and in most places the only other place it can be, if it's not on the rail, is in the dirt.
 
wabower said:
On the Sant Fe line, a red over yellow signal meant "proceed at restricted speed." They were usually lighted round signals back then, but if your line has specific places where the speed is restricted at all times, those signals would make sense.
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That's probably it. The train did slow down there.

What you saw at the derail location is what we have previously described. "Derail" means the wheel is no longer on the rail, and in most places the only other place it can be, if it's not on the rail, is in the dirt.
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What I mean is that instead of being some device that flips over the track, it was the same mechanism that changes the train from say the right track to the left track, except the left track was non-existent.
 
smigaldi said:
That is Morse code for the letter Q
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That's just a coincidence. The pattern goes back to the steam engine days.
For a listing of all horn patterns look here:
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/funfacts/signals.shtml

The FRA (the FAA of railroads) mandates the pattern nowadays. Some locomotives have a switch on the floor like an old style dimmer switch that, when pressed will blow the horn in that pattern over and over until pressed again.
The pattern is blown from the whistle board (the one with an "x" or "w" on it) until the train fully occupies the crossing. In parts of Nebraska, the train doesn't blow at all for the crossing. The crossing senses the train and lowers gates, flashes the lights and blows a simulated train horn located on the flashing light standard. The locomotive's flashing lights are called "ditch lights" and are separate from the headlight, which can be dimmed, but not flashed.
 
I can't remember having seen such a technique used before, and would wonder why they would incur the added cost of all the switch hardware when a simple de-rail would do the same job much cheaper. But then again, you're in NM, and everybody who has ever observed the way things are done in your state has said that the way things are done in the other 49 states shouldn't be expected work well there.

SkyHog said:
That's probably it. The train did slow down there.



What I mean is that instead of being some device that flips over the track, it was the same mechanism that changes the train from say the right track to the left track, except the left track was non-existent.
Click to expand...
 
jesse said:
There are generally raidroad police officers employed by the railroad that often have full arrest / police powers.
Click to expand...

In my early teens I ran with a rough crowd. For fun we would ambush the commuter train that ran from Edison to Elizabeth through our town of Hillside (a bucolic name for an armpit town).

We would find buckets in the effluent stream we called "the river" (filled with various industrial effulvia of rainbow colors) and wait for the train to roll by.

Many, many commuters went home soaked by that nasty water.

Every once in a while a small, self-propelled car would be behind the train.

Our game was to outrun the "train cops," that came spilling out of that thing like clowns from a clown car. We knew every trail, every shortcut, and every hiding spot. We never got caught.

It all ended when the drug gangs started using the park for transactions. We tossed rocks at them from the trestle -- we ran when they came after us the next day -- with knives and machetes.

I'm not sure why I did that, and would apologize to each and every one of those poor victims today. I suppose therapists could talk about disenfranchisement, envy, and the rest.

But mostly we were unsupervised kids with too much time and not enough opportunities for constructive behavior.
 
wabower said:
I can't remember having seen such a technique used before, and would wonder why they would incur the added cost of all the switch hardware when a simple de-rail would do the same job much cheaper. But then again, you're in NM, and everybody who has ever observed the way things are done in your state has said that the way things are done in the other 49 states shouldn't be expected work well there.
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Probably an old switch to a siding no longer in use and pulled out. Makes a convenient derail, and if the siding is ever reconstructed, no need to buy a switch/frog/turnout. Just ballast, ties and rail.
 
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