Question for cfi's

I used to require paper and plotter, no GPS of any kind on x-country flights. I still stress the (now) old-fashioned pilotage/dead reckoning with planning on paper, and do require that they take a paper chart with them with the course line drawn. But iPads and GPS have become standard fare and I'm letting them do portions of cross-country flights with these new tools. I've had the discussion with numerous DPEs and although they expect candidates to demonstrate manual planning techniques, they are generally allowing iPads and GPS use. But if you're putting a lot of your eggs into your GPS basket, make sure you have a backup GPS (or second iPad) with you.
 
Even with three iPads, I'd expect a good DPE to say "you've flown into a area where GPS testing/interference is going on" your GPSs have failed, look out the window and navigate me to XYZ.

If you can't navigate with a static chart (paper or electronic) with no little handy GPS airplane on it, just off your eyeballs and landmarks, you have zero business flying as a licensed VFR PPL IMO.

Same deal with planning a cross country, if you don't know the math behind it you have not earned the right to use the tool like a ipad

Ron, do you advocate allowing young children to never learn basic math, or need to demonstrate it on tests, when they grow up they will be using tools like cell phone calculators, thus they will not be required 95% of the time to ever need to pencil out a math problem as an adult?
 
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MikeELP said:
No, it does not. According to your "quote" from Mr. Viola, he said "I would like to see".

That sounds like an opinion...not regulation.

Just because Mr. Viola would "like to see" something doesn't make it so.

When it actually gets put into writing as part of 8900.2 then it becomes policy.....and then I'll believe it.

Keep on tryin' Ron!! :D
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As I said, believe what you want. And if you want to require your trainees to use a paper chart, paper log, pencil, and E-6B, you are free to do that. Just don't tell anyone the FAA requires that or that the FAA recommends doing it that way.
 
Ron Levy said:
And how does that change if you're using an electronic chart rather than a paper one? Pilotage is still pilotage, and a chart is still a chart, no matter whether the chart is made of cellulose or electrons.
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If you'd read his post completely, you'd see that he's saying it doesn't.
 
James331 said:
Ron, do you advocate allowing young children to never learn basic math, or need to demonstrate it on tests, when they grow up they will be using tools like cell phone calculators, thus they will not be required 95% of the time to ever need to pencil out a math problem as an adult?
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I'm not advocating or discussing anything about how elementary education should be conducted.

On the other hand, are you suggesting that Student Pilots be forbidden to use anything other than pencil-and-paper arithmetic to do their flight planning calculations?
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm not advocating or discussing anything about how elementary education should be conducted.

On the other hand, are you suggesting that Student Pilots be forbidden to use anything other than pencil-and-paper arithmetic to do their flight planning calculations?
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Initially yes, after they are able to do everything without the ipad then there shouldn't be a reason to not let them use an ipad.
 
Ron Levy said:
As I said, believe what you want. And if you want to require your trainees to use a paper chart, paper log, pencil, and E-6B, you are free to do that. Just don't tell anyone the FAA requires that or that the FAA recommends doing it that way.
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Does that mean that you will quit the endless blabbering of the Viola "quote" as being FAA policy??

:dunno:
 
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