Question for C-182 Pilots

jsstevens

jsstevens

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jsstevens
I've done one flight in a C-182Q with long range tanks. I'm on my way to my high performance endorsement and club checkout.

I expected to need LOTS of right rudder because of the higher horsepower engine. What I found is that it's pretty light. The elevator & ailerons are heavy but not the rudder. Is this normal? CFI said (upon my comment) "It's a big tail."

Curious.
 
donjohnston said:
182RG had rudder trim. Once you set it for takeoff, very little right pedal is needed.
Click to expand...

It does have rudder trim, but it was set to neutral. And remained so for the entire flight.
 
jsstevens said:
I've done one flight in a C-182Q with long range tanks. I'm on my way to my high performance endorsement and club checkout.

I expected to need LOTS of right rudder because of the higher horsepower engine. What I found is that it's pretty light. The elevator & ailerons are heavy but not the rudder. Is this normal? CFI said (upon my comment) "It's a big tail."

Curious.
Click to expand...

It's been awhile since I've flown a 182 and don't have whole lot of time in them. I don't recall anything noteworthy about the rudder except it takes a lot of it to keep the ball centered during Departure Stalls.
 
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jsstevens said:
I've done one flight in a C-182Q with long range tanks. I'm on my way to my high performance endorsement and club checkout.

I expected to need LOTS of right rudder because of the higher horsepower engine. What I found is that it's pretty light. The elevator & ailerons are heavy but not the rudder. Is this normal? CFI said (upon my comment) "It's a big tail."

Curious.
Click to expand...
Pretty typical. I thought it was a lot of power at first coming from a 150hp 172, but it’s nothing once you get used to it. Very docile everywhere IMO.
 
I’ve found the 182 to be more stable all around. It does feel different than a 172. A 172 or a tiger could be considered more responsive or more twitchy depending on what your preference is.

In any event I found it easier to fly - can’t remember needing a lot of anything. An SUV vs a Miata.
 
On a 300hp (peak) super viking you need a LOT of right rudder force, if not you are doing a 180 in no time.
going from there to the 182, i found myself putting in too much right rudder quite often...
 
Our club has a C-182P. I dial in the rudder trim and then don't worry about it. You will learn quickly that elevator trim is your friend, however. The darned things are a bit nose heavy (and you don't want to bend the firewall). Think of the 182 as a 172 on steroids with a prop speed control and cowl flaps and you won't be too far wrong. And, it a bunch more comfortable.
 
You need to count the rotation and note the location of the rudder trim indicator to know if the indicator is accurately showing the rudder trim setting. The indicators can be off. Also, the rudder could be rigged incorrectly. A correctly-indicating trim indicator should show an offset to the right to some degree if everything is set up correctly. Since I fly a Pponk'd 182, the rudder trim becomes a bit more important for comfort.
 
I fly an RV4 and a 182...I’m glad I get to fly the -4 or I’d forget what a rudder was.

seriously though, there isn’t much rudder input needed on climb out in the 182 and the pedal is pretty light.
 
In my 182B I keep the rudder trim deflected about half scale to the right all the time. Sometimes it needs little bit of left rudder in a descent, but not much. I haven’t tried flying it with the rudder trim centered, but I don’t think I would want to. It still needs substantial right rudder, especially in a climbing right turn at takeoff power.
 
Harry Myler said:
Is the mark neutral, or takeoff, implying right trim?
Click to expand...
Good question. But we didn’t touch rudder trim the whole flight. And that included 3 take offs, climbing to 5500 feet (from sea level), cruise flight, slow flight, and 4 landings. If it was right the whole time I think I’d have noticed.
 
Maybe not. The club’s 182 rudder trim is set right of neutral - and it never moves. Heck - I don’t think it’s been adjusted for over a year. Plane flies great with it set that way from take off, cruise, and landing.
 
WDD said:
Maybe not. The club’s 182 rudder trim is set right of neutral - and it never moves. Heck - I don’t think it’s been adjusted for over a year. Plane flies great with it set that way from take off, cruise, and landing.
Click to expand...
Maybe that’s the answer.
 
Yep, never touch the rudder trim on my 182P. How clean you are and your climb speed and rate will effect the amount of right rudder you need to apply, but it’s not massive by any means.

After flying the 182 so long it’s amount a subconscious act on climb out. As I transition to cruise climb I ease up a bit and hold that until we reach cruising altitude. Like most planes, you’ll “feel” what coordinated is and how much rudder to apply without even looking at the little ball.
 
donjohnston said:
182RG had rudder trim. Once you set it for takeoff, very little right pedal is needed.
Click to expand...

So you are one of the pilots that keeps changing the rudder trim and screws up a perfectly trimmed airplane. QUIT.
 
Very little rudder trim adjustments when flying a C182 is my experience. I’ve never fully trusted what the indicator says on pitch trim and that can apply to rudder trim too.
 
I don't ever recall the rudder trim being set to the left side of center.

When first learning it seemed like it needed a lot but that was only those first few seconds. If the trim is dialed right a bit you really don't mess with it much.

I would say the only times I am tweaking it are leveled out in cruise to get coordinated and to tweak that last bit to level the wings since we are now just a tidge pilot side heavy as we have been incrementally working on that each annual. Then when landing I move it back to the "regular" spot.

Elevator trim and landing and especially on go arounds is much more to be concerned with.
 
It’s not as much right rudder as you might think.

On mine, I adjust it less than about 1/4 turn. If you have an autopilot and you don’t use rudder trim for cruise to get the ball centered, you’ll never get to your max capable airspeed and will fly “crooked” (aviation term).
 
They’re quite effective at normal speeds. Not much pressure needed at all. It’s not undersized as your CFI noted.

On our R/STOL equipped one, that’s one of the POH changes, it’ll fly slow enough the checklist calls for cranking in right rudder trim for slow takeoffs. Which works great and you still don’t need to push hard that way.

Most people’s problems aren’t in how hard to push it, but how much. If your eyeballs are connected to your feet, you won’t notice it at all unless you get really slow and need all of it.

Then it’s more noting that the pedal just bottomed out rather than any sense of it being difficult or heavy to push. Exactly the opposite, it’ll feel floppy.
 
And I just came off of flying a DA-40 for instrument work so we were always climbing of flying slower than cruise and THAT plane needed rudder trim (and doesn't have it). Even the CFI said so. My right leg would be noticeably tired after an hour & a half lesson, so this is very easy by comparison.
 
bnt83 said:
Depends entirely on what airspeeds I'm climbing at and power settings.
Click to expand...

Good point but if I get mine climbing that hard that I need the rudder trim way over, it’s going to overheat. Haha.

It does climb like a damned homesick angel where you live, though. Especially solo.

Engine doesn’t get enough air for cooling though. Cant maintain it.
 
The 182Q has its rudder rigged one degree to the right (5/16" at the trailing edge) when the pedals and nosewheel steering are neutral. The nosewheel centering cam is what determines neutral, and you are pushing against the steering bungee in flight to move the rudder. The trim will be at neutral with the rudder set this way.

That said, I often found the systems far out of rig, usually because mechanics didn't have the manual or wouldn't go look it up. That went for ALL the flight control systems on just about any airplane.

The relevant 182 manual: http://data.tmorris.net/aviation/po...s/Cessna_182&T182_1977-1986_MM_D2068-3-13.pdf

Start on page 232 of the .pdf.
 
jsstevens said:
I've done one flight in a C-182Q with long range tanks. I'm on my way to my high performance endorsement and club checkout.

I expected to need LOTS of right rudder because of the higher horsepower engine. What I found is that it's pretty light. The elevator & ailerons are heavy but not the rudder. Is this normal? CFI said (upon my comment) "It's a big tail."

Curious.
Click to expand...

My 182Q flies just as you describe. Pretty docile overall. Much tamer than the 172N I learned in.
 
My 182 definitely requires a little more rudder pressure on takeoff than a 172 but it’s not dramatically different. I haven’t touched the rudder trim in probably 150 hours. It’s really a “set it and forget it” thing. I have the pponk and 3 blade hartzell scimitar prop.
 
I find I needed a fair amount of right rudder on take off and climb. I have since trimmed to require less but like having to apply some rudder for sense of control. Recently started flying a t tail lance and that really needs the right rudder on take off.
 
If you increase the aoa, you will need more right rudder.

So perhaps if you used a larger motor, or climbed VX, you would need a great deal of right rudder.

My 182 with a p-ponk motor and three blade required a strong amount of right rudder, and the 210 with a 310 horsepower engine requires a firm stomp on the right rudder as well.

In the 182, it would actually get quite tiring without dialing in some rudder trim on a longer climb.
 
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