Question about VFR flight following.

C. Kelley

C. Kelley

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C. Kelley
I am planning my first cross country since receiving my license. Its going to be about 380NM round trip from KCSG-KMEI. In my training I always planned a direct route so when I called for flight following I always told them direct. On this flight I will be KCSG-KMGM-V58-KMEI to avoid some very hot MOA's. When I call for flight following on the ground at CSG should I tell them my entire route? If so, what is the best way to do that?
 
you're VFR and Flight Following is not a clearance or anything so you are free to fly whatever route you choose. On inital call up i'd just tell them im headed to KMEI and then if they ask or there is time on freq advise you'll be going around the MOAs
 
You're not on a clearance, but when you're getting flight following, you are generally required to follow any instructions they give you (there are exemptions to this that you'll find in the FAR when you are looking for "compliance with ATC instructions" - I forget the number.
 
I would add that even though you can certainly do whatever you like if you're not on a vector, ATC is generally expecting you to fly a direct route so they may quiz you on what you're doing. This doesn't mean they want you to fly a direct route, it just means they may want to know where you are going in case there are other flights in the area which may be affected by your current course.

You also don't have to go around MOAs if you don't want. One of the nice things about being on flight following is you can quiz ATC about whether a MOA is currently being used or not. Many times they will tell you there's no military traffic in the MOA, so you can just fly right through them with no worries.
 
I broke down at KMEI one time. I really like the FBO there. They are extremely nice and helpful.
 
When you check in, say current position, final destination, altitude, and add "current heading to avoid MOAs is 090".
 
You got your answer already.

But to ask you a question, are you based at KCSG?

I stopped there last December on my way to Illinois from Florida. Nice airport! They treated me very nice and helped with my hotel room for the evening.
 
What I have been doing and seems to work really well when filing electronically is file an IFR flight plan (Check the box) with the route deatails with a VFR altitude and VFR ADVISORIES in the comment section.

This routes the flight plan to the ATC centers not just flight services.

You can open the plan in the air with flight services or local ATC. I call Selfridge once I depart PHN and tell them I'm requesting Flight following you should have a plan on file. At a towered airport I contacted ground which was also clearance delivery and they had the plan when I checked in to Taxi for departure and advised me that they had it on file and to contact Departure on XXX sqwack 1234 like an IFR clearance.

This method pretty much insures handoffs between ATC sectors since they have the plan on file already and a quick IFR filing in the air if needed.

Good Luck
 
Yeah I figured I would probably be able to fly through them no problem but just in case they were hot I went ahead and planned the route around them. It is still pretty much direct. Also, I have never flown a victor airway so I figured this would be a good time to hone my VOR skills a little. Always training ya know.

smigaldi said:
You got your answer already.

But to ask you a question, are you based at KCSG?

I stopped there last December on my way to Illinois from Florida. Nice airport! They treated me very nice and helped with my hotel room for the evening.
Click to expand...

I live in Columbus for the time being. The staff is awesome. Be advised though the name of the FBO has changed to 'Flightways Columbus' in case you stop there again. 'CSG Aviation' is still there but they only do training, rentals, and charters.
 
RMCN172RG said:
What I have been doing and seems to work really well when filing electronically is file an IFR flight plan (Check the box) with the route deatails with a VFR altitude and VFR ADVISORIES in the comment section.

This routes the flight plan to the ATC centers not just flight services.

You can open the plan in the air with flight services or local ATC. I call Selfridge once I depart PHN and tell them I'm requesting Flight following you should have a plan on file. At a towered airport I contacted ground which was also clearance delivery and they had the plan when I checked in to Taxi for departure and advised me that they had it on file and to contact Departure on XXX sqwack 1234 like an IFR clearance.

This method pretty much insures handoffs between ATC sectors since they have the plan on file already and a quick IFR filing in the air if needed.

Good Luck
Click to expand...

Is this option available even though I do not have an IR?
 
C. Kelley said:
I live in Columbus for the time being. The staff is awesome. Be advised though the name of the FBO has changed to 'Flightways Columbus' in case you stop there again. 'CSG Aviation' is still there but they only do training, rentals, and charters.
Click to expand...
Nice to know. I am not sure when I would come through again. I stopped there due to thunderstorms along my route of flight stretching the entire Tenn/GA, Tenn/AL, and Tenn/MS border. The front was going to come through and I figured I was not going to get any further north that day. I awoke the next morning and the front was overhead and the thunderstorms turned into rain showers so I headed off.

This was my write up on the trip.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25412
 
C. Kelley said:
I am planning my first cross country since receiving my license. Its going to be about 380NM round trip from KCSG-KMEI. In my training I always planned a direct route so when I called for flight following I always told them direct. On this flight I will be KCSG-KMGM-V58-KMEI to avoid some very hot MOA's. When I call for flight following on the ground at CSG should I tell them my entire route? If so, what is the best way to do that?
Click to expand...

Tell ground you'd like flight following to MEI via direct MGM V56. If the controller's on the ball he'll enter that route in the computer and your route will be sent to all controllers along the way.

KCSG direct KMEI does not appear to enter any MOAs.
 
roncachamp said:
Tell ground you'd like flight following to MEI via direct MGM V56. If the controller's on the ball he'll enter that route in the computer and your route will be sent to all controllers along the way.

KCSG direct KMEI does not appear to enter any MOAs.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I will have to check that again when I get off work. I hate having to plot between two sectionals.
 
RMCN172RG said:
What I have been doing and seems to work really well when filing electronically is file an IFR flight plan (Check the box) with the route deatails with a VFR altitude and VFR ADVISORIES in the comment section.

This routes the flight plan to the ATC centers not just flight services.
Click to expand...

That routes the flight plan to ATC exclusively, FSS won't have it.
 
RMCN172RG said:
What I have been doing and seems to work really well when filing electronically is file an IFR flight plan (Check the box) with the route deatails with a VFR altitude and VFR ADVISORIES in the comment section.
Click to expand...

I'm sure everywhere is different and this may work quite well from where you fly out of, but I'm pretty sure this would confuse the hell out of ATC in my area (which isn't hard to do, BTW).
 
MikePapa said:
I'm sure everywhere is different and this may work quite well from where you fly out of, but I'm pretty sure this would confuse the hell out of ATC in my area (which isn't hard to do, BTW).
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I can guarentee that would confuse the heck out of the Chicago Approach controllers. Probably annoy the heck out them too! One's tail number would be hung on the wall of shame in the TRACON (3rd stall on the left) :cornut::cornut:
 
Yeah I'm probably going to try and give my route to the ground controller and hope its clear. Otherwise it will be filed through flight service anyways so if something were to happen they would know where to look. Now that I may be able to take a direct route, pending checking my sectionals, I am torn between direct or going with my original plan to practice flying a victor airway.
 
C. Kelley said:
Is this option available even though I do not have an IR?
Click to expand...
I've never seen this in the AIM, and the problem is the controller may think you're operating IFR rather than VFR, which could get you in a box. Therefore, I don't recommend doing this. Just tell Columbus Ground that you're VFR to MEI at whatever altitude and requesting a squawk and freq for VFR flight following and take it from there.
 
MikePapa said:
I would add that even though you can certainly do whatever you like if you're not on a vector, ATC is generally expecting you to fly a direct route so they may quiz you on what you're doing. This doesn't mean they want you to fly a direct route, it just means they may want to know where you are going in case there are other flights in the area which may be affected by your current course.
Click to expand...

Yup. Coming back to western Washington on FF a few years ago we deviated from the direct path to OLM to take some closer pictures of Mt. Rainier. SEA Center came on frequency with, "I know what you're doing!" with a smile in his voice. I acknowledged and let me know that we'd be resuming course to OLM shortly. No biggie.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've never seen this in the AIM, and the problem is the controller may think you're operating IFR rather than VFR, which could get you in a box. Therefore, I don't recommend doing this.
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I am thinking the same thing on that one. The last thing I want is the FAA on my back. I'm hoping that won't be an issue in the near future.
 
C. Kelley said:
Is this option available even though I do not have an IR?
Click to expand...
It is. Remember that you don't need a rating to file flight plans, only to accept clearances.

It might not be in the AIM, but it is a recognized and understood technique. I do recommend doing this at busy airports, like class C/B primary airports, because it really helps their traffic planning and gets you out quickly.

In addition to what already has been said, put VFR/XX in the altitude block. The computer will accept that, and it will look different to a controller. For example, on DUAT:

ALTITUDE/FL---> VFR/65

Since it _is_ a recognized technique, and the host computer accepts that, the FAA most certainly won't come after you. They wouldn't come after you anyways since you're not accepting an IFR clearance.

-Felix
 
So if go that route (IFR Flight Plan / VFR flight) how long in advance would I need to file electronically?
 
Yeah, do what Ron said. No need to make this complicated. Also, KCSG direct KMEI you will not enter an MOA....only clip the corner of one. Did I miss something here?
Ron Levy said:
I've never seen this in the AIM, and the problem is the controller may think you're operating IFR rather than VFR, which could get you in a box. Therefore, I don't recommend doing this. Just tell Columbus Ground that you're VFR to MEI at whatever altitude and requesting a squawk and freq for VFR flight following and take it from there.
Click to expand...
 
C. Kelley said:
So if go that route (IFR Flight Plan / VFR flight) how long in advance would I need to file electronically?
Click to expand...
Depends. A few minutes is usually enough.

But you'd be missing out on the main advantage, which is to allow ATC to plan their traffic ahead of time. I'd file at least 30 minutes in advance. When I flew VFR out of PHL a few years ago, it really helped them out.

Like I said, I mostly see the usefulness for busy C/B airports. For general FF, it's probably not useful to anyone and might be annoying...
 
Yeah I'm thinking that on this flight I may just keep it simple since I'm not going to be dealing with busy airspace. But I will definitely keep that trick in mind when I plan on being in or flying through the ATL Class B cloak.
 
How about KCSG - TGE - JYU - KMEI Seems to split the MOA's.
 
I will have to check that one out when I get back to my sectionals. Where is Hoschton, GA?
 
ive never heard of that method of filing an IFR flight plan even though you are flying VFR.
 
tonycondon said:
ive never heard of that method of filing an IFR flight plan even though you are flying VFR.
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It's not addressed in the AIM or any other pilot pub I've seen. I can't find it in the ATC Handbook, either (perhaps roncachamp can advise if it's buried somewhere in there). Thus, it's not a procedure I'll use, recommend, or teach myself.
 
It's a common practice for the DC SFRA as it ensures that your plan reaches ATC and not FSS. It is NOT common (nor recommended) elsewhere.

Basically, it's a workaround to put a VFR flight plan into the ATC computers.
 
sba55 said:
It is. Remember that you don't need a rating to file flight plans, only to accept clearances.

It might not be in the AIM, but it is a recognized and understood technique. I do recommend doing this at busy airports, like class C/B primary airports, because it really helps their traffic planning and gets you out quickly.

In addition to what already has been said, put VFR/XX in the altitude block. The computer will accept that, and it will look different to a controller. For example, on DUAT:

ALTITUDE/FL---> VFR/65

Since it _is_ a recognized technique, and the host computer accepts that, the FAA most certainly won't come after you. They wouldn't come after you anyways since you're not accepting an IFR clearance.

-Felix
Click to expand...

How do you define "recogonized technique"? Just because it has worked with some controllers and the host computer accepts it doesn't mean the FAA folks who can impact your ticket recognize as proper.
 
C. Kelley said:
Yeah I figured I would probably be able to fly through them no problem but just in case they were hot I went ahead and planned the route around them. It is still pretty much direct. Also, I have never flown a victor airway so I figured this would be a good time to hone my VOR skills a little. Always training ya know.



Kinda hard to believe you have never flown a Victor airway during your hours before getting your ticket.. Must be just me thinking wrong. :dunno:
Click to expand...
 
TMetzinger said:
It's a common practice for the DC SFRA as it ensures that your plan reaches ATC and not FSS.
Click to expand...
That's for "DC SFRA" flight plans, which are different than regular "VFR" flight plans. They just don't have the resources to add another box to the form and the computer software, so they have this workaround for that specific case.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's for "DC SFRA" flight plans, which are different than regular "VFR" flight plans. They just don't have the resources to add another box to the form and the computer software, so they have this workaround for that specific case.
Click to expand...
Correct - plans filed this way are NOT usable for SAR, since there's nobody watching you once you exit the SFRA, and the FSS never sees it.
 
I will offer this regarding FF: if you decide to change heading or altitude to any significant degree, give the controller a heads-up.
It's easy to forget they are often also handling (fast) IFR traffic, often in nearby IMC, so helps them update their 'big picture" for the benefit of those who are directly under their control.
 
kkoran said:
How do you define "recogonized technique"? Just because it has worked with some controllers and the host computer accepts it doesn't mean the FAA folks who can impact your ticket recognize as proper.
Click to expand...
A technique that's used in practice? There's a lot of scaremongering here. Of course the FAA won't do anything to your ticket, even if they don't like it. _Maybe_ they'll say so but that's very unlikely.

Generally speaking, though, helping out ATC is beneficial for both parties.
 
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