Question about Socal approach and flight following

FlyingMonkey

FlyingMonkey

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FlyingMonkey
I'm a recently minted Private Pilot and was doing some sightseeing solo today in the L.A. area. I transitioned Van Nuys airspace and came southbound over the Sepulveda Pass. I contacted SoCal approach on 124.6 for a VFR request. He asked to say request and I said "Tail number is a C172/A at 2,500 over the Getty Center request flight following along the coast to Pt Dume and back to Whiteman." He told me to contact Socal Approach on 134.2. I contacted Appch on 134.2 and did the same thing. That guy old me to contact Appch on 124.6 and that they could help me out!

Wondering if they were both just too busy for a VFR request? Am I using the wrong frequencies? I'm pretty sure those were the ones I was using since I chose them based on the Terminal Chart.

After that, I just bailed on the idea of flight following after getting bounced around like that and flew by my own navigation, staying out of Class B and the Burbank Class C on the way back while observing minimum safe altitude rules.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
For what it's worth, this happened to me once in another part of SoCal and I told the second controller something like "SoCal Approach, Cessna 123, I just came from 124.6 and they told me to call you." He responded, "Oh, is that you at xxx feet over blah blah, I guess you are mine."

I'm guessing that there's an ambiguous handoff zone between them.
 
Yep, just tell the second guy what happened. He will take you,most of the time.
 
That occasionally will happen if you're right on the line between 2 sectors. You're a moving target, so by the time you go back and forth you may have moved from one to the other, while you were talking to the opposite controllers. Neither said no, so I'd just explain and move on. They are human too.
 
Thanks for the replies. Does anyone know which frequency would be the right one for the palisades and up the coast to Malibu?

This is a flight I'll probably do a few times. Also if I want to fly low over the ocean will they lose radar contact? Should I not even bother if I'll be under 2000 or 1000 feet over the ocean?
 
This happened to me last time I was flying back south from SMX...made the initial call to Santa Barbara Approach, ended up getting FF from LA Center ten minutes and four frequency changes later. Just being at the wrong spot at the wrong time, I guess.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
I'm a recently minted Private Pilot and was doing some sightseeing solo today in the L.A. area. I transitioned Van Nuys airspace and came southbound over the Sepulveda Pass. I contacted SoCal approach on 124.6 for a VFR request. He asked to say request and I said "Tail number is a C172/A at 2,500 over the Getty Center request flight following along the coast to Pt Dume and back to Whiteman." He told me to contact Socal Approach on 134.2. I contacted Appch on 134.2 and did the same thing. That guy old me to contact Appch on 124.6 and that they could help me out!

Wondering if they were both just too busy for a VFR request? Am I using the wrong frequencies? I'm pretty sure those were the ones I was using since I chose them based on the Terminal Chart.

After that, I just bailed on the idea of flight following after getting bounced around like that and flew by my own navigation, staying out of Class B and the Burbank Class C on the way back while observing minimum safe altitude rules.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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I've had that happen before in other places as well. I figure I t probably is because they are busy, and likely I'm operating in an overlap area and they are trying to pawn me off. I just laugh and tell them "they told me to call you." Typically they work me in then, although I have been told to call them back.:lol:
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Thanks for the replies. Does anyone know which frequency would be the right one for the palisades and up the coast to Malibu?

This is a flight I'll probably do a few times. Also if I want to fly low over the ocean will they lose radar contact? Should I not even bother if I'll be under 2000 or 1000 feet over the ocean?
Click to expand...

I'd have expected 128.75 from the TAC chart, 125.2 from the SMO AFD entry for SoCal approach, and I bet if I kept looking I could find a few others. :D I think you just got a lazy/disinterested controller the first round, or he misunderstood your position or intentions. His bad, not yours :)

Agree with the prior point, when I've had that happen, I tell the second guy "He sent me to you", and that seems to friendly them up and the second guy sorts it out for me, regardless of who screwed up.
 
I agree with 128.75 based on the chart.

Where are you coming from? Consider getting FF as soon as wheels are off, instead of saving it for when you're in the middle of the mess. That way you only have to remember one frequency! :yesnod:
 
Are the approach frequencies in blue boxes for the class B? How are they different from the ones in magenta boxes? There are 2 very close together there.


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FlyingMonkey said:
Are the approach frequencies in blue boxes for the class B? How are they different from the ones in magenta boxes? There are 2 very close together there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Depends on your intentions. Mangenta to transition or land at Burbank, blue to play around in the LAX Bravo.
 
What about playing around but staying clear of the bravo?


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I use the blue frequencies to play under Bravo. I think that's the intention of them, but don't quote me. :) It's worked so far.
 
A few times, I have had it happen where, I have been close to their boundary and gotten something like
"Bugsmasher 1234, Houston Center...wait about 10 minutes and try Austin Approach on...XXX.XXX"
 
charris911 said:
A few times, I have had it happen where, I have been close to their boundary and gotten something like
"Bugsmasher 1234, Houston Center...wait about 10 minutes and try Austin Approach on...XXX.XXX"
Click to expand...

That happens a lot down low in large rural areas or in the mountains, but I'll tell you what, it's a lot less now than it was 25 years ago, especially in the Rockies.
 
Flying Viking said:
I agree with 128.75 based on the chart.

Where are you coming from? Consider getting FF as soon as wheels are off, instead of saving it for when you're in the middle of the mess. That way you only have to remember one frequency! :yesnod:
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It's been a while since I worked that area but I doubt much has changed regarding sector boundaries.

128.75 is the high altitude frequency for the west side of SOCAL/BUR airspace, 7000' and above (used to top out at 13,000'). Basically it runs from the north boundary of the LA Class B northward and west of VNY.

124.6 is the SOCAL/BUR airspace frequency beginning at BUR westward to VNY and northward from the surface upwards (used to top out at 13,000').

134.2 is the low altitude frequency beginning basically at the northern LA Class B boundary extending northward from the surface to 6000'.

Sounds like you may have been riding the sector boundary line.
 
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Mike Quinlin said:
It's been a while since I worked that area but I doubt much has changed regarding sector boundaries.

128.75 is the high altitude frequency for the west side of SOCAL/BUR airspace, 7000' and above (used to top out at 13,000'). Basically it runs from the north boundary of the LA Class B northward and west of VNY.

124.6 is the SOCAL/BUR airspace frequency beginning at BUR westward to VNY and northward from the surface upwards (used to top out at 13,000').

134.2 is the low altitude frequency beginning basically at the northern LA Class B boundary extending northward from the surface to 6000'.

Sounds like you make have been riding the sector boundary line.
Click to expand...

I forgot to add that the 134.2 sector runs west of VNY.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Thanks for the replies. Does anyone know which frequency would be the right one for the palisades and up the coast to Malibu?

This is a flight I'll probably do a few times. Also if I want to fly low over the ocean will they lose radar contact? Should I not even bother if I'll be under 2000 or 1000 feet over the ocean?
Click to expand...

If you're going to follow the coast it's 125.2. If you're going to go as far as Point Mugu remember the restricted and warning areas. Radar coverage is good almost to the surface over the ocean. Point Mugu's radar won't pick you up at low altitude until you're just a few miles from Mugu.
 
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Mike Quinlin said:
If you're going to follow the coast it's 125.2. If you're going to go as far as Point Mugu remember the restricted and warning areas. Radar coverage is good almost to the surface over the ocean. Point Mugu's radar won't pick you up at low altitude until you're just a few miles from Mugu.
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Great advice from everyone thank you. I definitely have my eye on that restricted airspace. Flying low over the ocean abeam Malibu is really beautiful. I'll try 125.2 again next time. I always feel better when on Flight Following in the L.A. area. That being said I do love the SFRA transition....
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Thanks for the replies. Does anyone know which frequency would be the right one for the palisades and up the coast to Malibu?

This is a flight I'll probably do a few times. Also if I want to fly low over the ocean will they lose radar contact? Should I not even bother if I'll be under 2000 or 1000 feet over the ocean?
Click to expand...

go take a tour of the TRACON - you will see that the sector line is the 405 . . .

so thats your answer - be on one side or the other. 124.6 to the east, 134.2 to the west. Mind the various airspaces.
 
comanchepilot said:
go take a tour of the TRACON - you will see that the sector line is the 405 . . .

so thats your answer - be on one side or the other. 124.6 to the east, 134.2 to the west. Mind the various airspaces.
Click to expand...

Have you done this? How do I do it? I'd love to.
 
Flying Viking said:
I agree with 128.75 based on the chart.

Where are you coming from? Consider getting FF as soon as wheels are off, instead of saving it for when you're in the middle of the mess. That way you only have to remember one frequency! :yesnod:
Click to expand...

Another option is getting FF on the ground. Not all airports will do it for you, but if they will it's a lot easier than trying to figure out who to call, where you are, etc. during your climbout. Just ask Ground, worst you'll get is "Contact SoCal once airborne on 1xx.xx" in which case you got your answer on what frequency anyways.
 
StinkBug said:
Another option is getting FF on the ground. Not all airports will do it for you, but if they will it's a lot easier than trying to figure out who to call, where you are, etc. during your climbout. Just ask Ground, worst you'll get is "Contact SoCal once airborne on 1xx.xx" in which case you got your answer on what frequency anyways.
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I find calling on clearance delivery I can get my code set up far more often than denied and get an IFR style handoff on departure.
 
StinkBug said:
Another option is getting FF on the ground. Not all airports will do it for you, but if they will it's a lot easier than trying to figure out who to call, where you are, etc. during your climbout. Just ask Ground, worst you'll get is "Contact SoCal once airborne on 1xx.xx" in which case you got your answer on what frequency anyways.
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Indeed, and I've had the opposite happen too. Asked for the best freq for flight following and they came back with "We can set you up right now if you'd like" :-)
 
Henning said:
I find calling on clearance delivery I can get my code set up far more often than denied and get an IFR style handoff on departure.
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Henning - that really depends on the airport - don't call Ground at Carlsbad or Camarillo and ask for that- they'll have your head and tell you in a snotty voice they don't do that there . . . .

But El Monte and Brackett and San Berdoo are happy to do that for you -

Chino is on the 'No' side of the equation as well. I've even had Class C airports [not in Calif] tell me to just contact departure on the way out for services.
 
MYF has always given me a beacon code and a handoff when vfr when asked for it. CRQ from time to time i've gotten it. Especially when the weather isn't clear and a million.
 
Indeed it's annoying for pilots when different airports handle the "can you setup flight following before departure" question. Some are happy to, some say in the ATIS to ask, others get all snooty and make you feel like an idiot for even asking.

I usually just ask the controller for the best frequency. They usually won't get all snooty with you for asking that (especially given that the sectional is often unclear or inaccurate about what freq to use) and gives the controller the option to just say "hey let me help you out and just set that up for you now".
 
I have yet to have a controller get snooty about not being able to handle a flight following request. I just get told "contact XXX Center (or Approach) after departure."
 
comanchepilot said:
Henning - that really depends on the airport - don't call Ground at Carlsbad or Camarillo and ask for that- they'll have your head and tell you in a snotty voice they don't do that there . . . .

But El Monte and Brackett and San Berdoo are happy to do that for you -

Chino is on the 'No' side of the equation as well. I've even had Class C airports [not in Calif] tell me to just contact departure on the way out for services.
Click to expand...

I got a snotty voice once at Hayward, I just replied a bit incredulously, "Seriously, you can't get get me a beacon code?" and switched to ground to get taxiing. Before I got to the runnup pad I got a code and a frequency.:D
 
comanchepilot said:
Henning - that really depends on the airport - don't call Ground at Carlsbad or Camarillo and ask for that- they'll have your head and tell you in a snotty voice they don't do that there . . . .

But El Monte and Brackett and San Berdoo are happy to do that for you -

Chino is on the 'No' side of the equation as well. I've even had Class C airports [not in Calif] tell me to just contact departure on the way out for services.
Click to expand...

I cant speak for Camarillo, but I'm based at Carlsbad and hear this request all the time from transient pilots. I've never heard anything snotty or anything approaching having anyones head. Every time I can remember it's exactly what I said before "Contact Socal on 127.3 after departure for flight following"

I've been told that they don't set you up with it on the ground because they dont have the right connection to SoCal to set it up. I got the impression that they need to be networked in some way that they aren't, otherwise they would do it. Most of the controllers I've talked to say that they would rather set it up, but are unable.
 
StinkBug said:
I cant speak for Camarillo, but I'm based at Carlsbad and hear this request all the time from transient pilots. I've never heard anything snotty or anything approaching having anyones head. Every time I can remember it's exactly what I said before "Contact Socal on 127.3 after departure for flight following"

I've been told that they don't set you up with it on the ground because they dont have the right connection to SoCal to set it up. I got the impression that they need to be networked in some way that they aren't, otherwise they would do it. Most of the controllers I've talked to say that they would rather set it up, but are unable.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand not every tower has the ability, I have been declined many times as well for this reason, no worries. I knew Hayward could do it though because I had done it many times before there when I based there.

I think those towers can only issue a local squawk which you will have to change anyway, so they only issue them to get you out IFR, or something like that.
 
i've usually asked for a beacon code and a handoff and have received it.
 
MAKG1 said:
I have yet to have a controller get snooty about not being able to handle a flight following request. I just get told "contact XXX Center (or Approach) after departure."
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My experience too.

My first XC solo was to Ramona (KRNM), a little delta airport that is inland, half way between LA and San Diego, CA. Because I was used to getting it all setup before departure, I asked the ground controller if she could help me with flight following home and, in the sweetest, nicest possible way, she said, "AB123, we don't do that here, but you can contact SoCal Approach on 132.2 after departure and they'll set that up for you." No snootiness at all.
 
comanchepilot said:
Henning - that really depends on the airport - don't call Ground at Carlsbad or Camarillo and ask for that- they'll have your head and tell you in a snotty voice they don't do that there . . . .

But El Monte and Brackett and San Berdoo are happy to do that for you -

Chino is on the 'No' side of the equation as well. I've even had Class C airports [not in Calif] tell me to just contact departure on the way out for services.
Click to expand...

I have had CMA ground set it up and tower gave me the hand-off to Point Mugu for flight following a few times in the past. Haven't tried it lately..., but I'll give it a shot tomorrow to see what happens.

From what you're saying, I'm guessing I got lucky and this was when these guys were afraid for their jobs with the budget cutback and threats...
 
StinkBug said:
I cant speak for Camarillo, but I'm based at Carlsbad and hear this request all the time from transient pilots. I've never heard anything snotty or anything approaching having anyones head. Every time I can remember it's exactly what I said before "Contact Socal on 127.3 after departure for flight following"

I've been told that they don't set you up with it on the ground because they dont have the right connection to SoCal to set it up. I got the impression that they need to be networked in some way that they aren't, otherwise they would do it. Most of the controllers I've talked to say that they would rather set it up, but are unable.
Click to expand...

I have gotten and IFR clearance from ground many times coming out of CRQ with no plan on file.... Is this a different network?
 
IFR seems to be a different deal. I'm working on my IR right now and they have had no issues setting up a tower enroute clearance for me. I'm really not sure what the difference is, I just know that they don't do FF on the ground at CRQ.

Regardless, the OP was asking about what frequency to contact, and they will always give you that on the ground, so it doesn't matter much if they will start FF or not. You get the frequency either way.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, I understand not every tower has the ability, I have been declined many times as well for this reason, no worries. I knew Hayward could do it though because I had done it many times before there when I based there.

I think those towers can only issue a local squawk which you will have to change anyway, so they only issue them to get you out IFR, or something like that.
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No, I get flight following on the ground from Palo Alto all the time. I only have to change my code when Oakland doesn't get the message it's flight following rather than a Class C transition and drops me at the far edge of Class C (and I call them again to reestablish flight following).

Hayward is so exceptionally close to the Oakland Class C that I'm flabbergasted they don't do flight following from the ground all the time, if only to handle the inevitable Class C transition. JHC, they are close enough that they have a 600 foot pattern altitude to avoid TCAS RAs on airliners landing on OAK 30.
 
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