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Kylepa28

Filing Flight Plan
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Kyle
So I found I school that has pretty reasonable rates? I'm near Tucson fwiw. My original plan was to do it at my pace flying 2-3 times per month as my budget allows. They have basically told me that I should be flying 2x per week and that I should either charge it or save enough until I can do that. Their reasoning is that it's cheaper and I'll retain more in the long run.
My instinct is throwing up flags saying this could be a "get their money as fast as you can" kind of scam but I'm pretty new and wanted some wiser feedback.
Thanks everyone
 
Flying more will be better, at least once or twice a week is a good idea.

Waiting till you have the money to see it through is also a good idea and cheaper in the long run

That said, DO NOT pre pay for flight time outside of maybe getting a discount for buying a 5hr block or something on the plane, but paying them for ALL your training upfront is a VERY bad idea and more than a few people have got burned HARD doing that.
 
Kylepa28 said:
So I found I school that has pretty reasonable rates? I'm near Tucson fwiw. My original plan was to do it at my pace flying 2-3 times per month as my budget allows. They have basically told me that I should be flying 2x per week and that I should either charge it or save enough until I can do that. Their reasoning is that it's cheaper and I'll retain more in the long run.
My instinct is throwing up flags saying this could be a "get their money as fast as you can" kind of scam but I'm pretty new and wanted some wiser feedback.
Thanks everyone
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That’s good advice to adhere to. The more you can fly, the less you’ll have to re-learn which results in money saving in the long run. If you only intend to fly once every week or two and still earn the certificate in a reasonable amount of time, than think again.

As James said, it’s best not to pre-pay for any flight time. The only caveat to that would be in purchasing ‘block time’ which is typically an upfront purchase of 10hrs of aircraft rental for a small discount, usually 1hr free or a 10% discount.

Good luck!
 
To clarify, it is a pay as you go method, they just wanted to be able to fly 2x week for the most benefit. I wasn't really sure what sop is for this. Thanks
 
Side question on topic, is it common to switch cfis mid school to get different perspectives? Or try to stick to one school?
 
Kylepa28 said:
To clarify, it is a pay as you go method, they just wanted to be able to fly 2x week for the most benefit. I wasn't really sure what sop is for this. Thanks
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That's a good idea, flying twice a week. Else you will end up paying much more in the long run

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Kylepa28 said:
To clarify, it is a pay as you go method, they just wanted to be able to fly 2x week for the most benefit. I wasn't really sure what sop is for this. Thanks
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That’s pretty much SOP. Flying 2x per week is the MINIMUM that you should plan for, 3-4x is ideal.
 
Yes, it's better to fly more often. On the other hand, don't go too far into debt.Don't run up an outlandish credit card bill. Save up the money so you can fly more often.
 
Kylepa28 said:
Side question on topic, is it common to switch cfis mid school to get different perspectives? Or try to stick to one school?
Click to expand...

The biggest factor is your CFI, find one who's style matches yours and stick with him unless you have reason to switch.
 
A the others have said, aim for 2x-3x per week. Expect a few weeks with no flying, though. The plane will need maintenance, the weather won't cooperate, airplane/student/CFI schedule just won't work, and there might be times you just don't feel it.

As for your other question about changing CFIs: if you aren't getting along, it's always your right to get a different CFI. Otherwise, I never felt the need for a second opinion. Your CFI signs off on you that you are ready for your checkride.
 
The above advice is good and will reduce the time and expense for getting your license. It's what many pilots have done and it's worked well for them.

I'll take the risk, though, of giving you a different perspective.

First of all, minimizing training time and cost should not be your primary goal. Your primary goal should be learning to fly safely and well, and if that costs a bit more then so be it.

These threads often revolve around ways to learn quickly and save money, but is that really the right objective?

Now with that in mind, think about how you will plan to fly after you have your pilot's certificate. Will you be flying once or twice a week, or once or twice a month, or what? There is some benefit to training like you will fly. If you do your lessons at a slower frequency, you will, of necessity, reach the point where you are retaining your skills for several weeks without them deteriorating.

This is a safer condition if you will be laying off for weeks at a time when flying on your own. Yes, it will take more lessons this way. Yes, it will cost more. Would it be worth it? Beats me. That's for you to decide.

Again, there is nothing at all wrong in the posts above. I just wanted you to have another way of thinking about it.
 
Do what you can afford when you can afford it. Sure it's best to fly more often but most of us have to do what our budgets allow.

Don't wait until you've attempted to save up. Something else will always occur to suck your money away.

Others may not agree, but a flight school that would rather I walk away rather than working with my budget is probably not the school for me.

He'll even if you try and fly twice a week it probably won't happen. Aircraft and instructor scheduling conflicts, weather or work or other personal issues will constantly get in the way of flying twice a week.

My opinion - try another flight school that appreciates your business and is willing to work with your budget. Start training now.
 
Kylepa28 said:
Side question on topic, is it common to switch cfis mid school to get different perspectives? Or try to stick to one school?
Click to expand...
Evaluate the available CFI’s and find one that fits your personality the best. Remember, you’ll be spending a lot of time in close quarters with whom ever you choose so consider that. If they have an odd odor about them or recurring bad breath, that might be a sign to turn the other direction (discussed this previously).
 
Learn within your budget. Flying lessons are stressful on their own without adding financial worries to the pile.

Not everyone can afford to fly, so some choose cocaine instead. It's cheaper and easier to kick the addiction later on.

(Note to the forum's literal-minded: this is a joke.)
 
As a CFI and flight school owner that is not a red flag. You will save a significant amount of time, money and frustration if you're able to fly more often. It is in the students best interest to fly more often not necessarily the schools.
 
Kylepa28 said:
So I found I school that has pretty reasonable rates? I'm near Tucson fwiw. My original plan was to do it at my pace flying 2-3 times per month as my budget allows. They have basically told me that I should be flying 2x per week and that I should either charge it or save enough until I can do that. Their reasoning is that it's cheaper and I'll retain more in the long run.
My instinct is throwing up flags saying this could be a "get their money as fast as you can" kind of scam but I'm pretty new and wanted some wiser feedback.
Thanks everyone
Click to expand...
they're correct that it will cost you less in the long run because flying 2-3 times per month you likely will spend more time going over what you've already learned than if you fly more often...at least 1x per week and preferably 2-3x per week. I wouldn't use a credit card unless you already pay off the balance each month and I wouldn't pay them anything in advance either. if the school goes belly up you'd be out $X. if the 2-3 times per month is a $ issue and a credit card is not a good solution then figure what 40-hrs would cost ...some with a CFI and some without...and start saving into a separate bank account. that should take you to or through the check ride hopefully with some left over. prepare an overall budget including flight lessons and set aside $X each month into that account. good luck.
 
Wow you guys rock! I have zero interest in accumulating any kind of debt for this. I've been going through some of the ground school stuff on my own for a few months now. I figured it would be better for me to go through it once on my own before getting started so when I go through it in school, it's more of a refresher. Guess I need to start saving my ot hours.
Thanks everyone!
Love this place!
 
Sounds like the school was actually giving you sound advice. The more frequently the average student flies, the quicker (less total time) the average student makes it to their checkride.

Students have different capabilities for learning, and CFIs have different styles of teaching. Best way to make sure you’re getting the best match to your personality is to fly with two or three different instructors at the beginning, then choose your preference and stay with that one.
 
Kylepa28 said:
Wow you guys rock! I have zero interest in accumulating any kind of debt for this. I've been going through some of the ground school stuff on my own for a few months now. I figured it would be better for me to go through it once on my own before getting started so when I go through it in school, it's more of a refresher. Guess I need to start saving my ot hours.
Thanks everyone!
Love this place!
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Post some updates after your start your flying.

Also if you ever need a recommend for a ground school, the king videos rock.
 
Kylepa28 said:
I've been going through some of the ground school stuff on my own for a few months now. I figured it would be better for me to go through it once on my own before getting started so when I go through it in school, it's more of a refresher.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea. If you have a good understanding of aerodynamics and aircraft systems at the beginning, then less time will have to be spent on those subjects with the instructor, and more time can be spent on advancing your skills and other knowledge.
 
Kylepa28 said:
Side question on topic, is it common to switch cfis mid school to get different perspectives? Or try to stick to one school?
Click to expand...

Switching CFIs mid-school might be common, but not necessarily to get a "different perspective." More likely because one CFI got a job with an airline or maybe because you were dissatisfied with the first CFI or you wanted to train in a different type of plane that another CFI was better qualified to teach in. It's also possible to have more than one CFI at the same time, which might work better for scheduling purposes. That works best if the CFIs coordinate with each other and/or they're working from a standardized syllabus and a common set of rules.

There's definitely an adaptation period each time you fly with a new CFI. Each one does things differently, and might be more or less of a stickler for certain things. You also have to get used to how they work in terms of which things they're expecting you to do completely on your own initiative versus telling you what/when/how to do something. As you advance in your training you'll be doing more and more things on your own initiative, but if you switch CFIs you might suddenly find that they're micro-managing something you're used to doing yourself or they're expecting you to do something yourself that the other CFI always told you when to do.

Even though I'm still a student pilot, I have a lot of experience with this because I started training in a Cessna 172 with one CFI, then moved to a Cirrus SR20 with another (independent) CFI, then I got into a Cirrus Training Center (where I had been on a waiting list) who assigned me three different CFIs that coordinate with each other. So that's five CFIs I've flown with so far. My head is spinning both literally and figuratively :)
 
If u are budgeting for hrs... don't budget for 40 and stop there... in all likelihood u will hit a plateau and will take more time. If u can get it in by 40, great, but avoid a situation where u are at 40, run out of money and have a long gap

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
If u are budgeting for hrs... don't budget for 40 and stop there... in all likelihood u will hit a plateau and will take more time. If u can get it in by 40, great, but avoid a situation where u are at 40, run out of money and have a long gap

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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Yup, national average is 60, and the more times you switch CFIs the higher the number will likely be
 
James331 said:
Flying more will be better, at least once or twice a week is a good idea.

Waiting till you have the money to see it through is also a good idea and cheaper in the long run

That said, DO NOT pre pay for flight time outside of maybe getting a discount for buying a 5hr block or something on the plane, but paying them for ALL your training upfront is a VERY bad idea and more than a few people have got burned HARD doing that.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: Welcome to POA!

As a CFI it has been my experience that those who are able to fly minimum once weekly can progress, but twice a week is better. You retain what you learned in the previous lesson, digest it for a couple days, then can move on to the next lesson without having to repeat some or most of the previous lesson. Everything else James and others mention is good advice. Good luck.
 
Do what’s needed to save $6000. Start training using that money, while you do what’s needed to save remaining $2000-$3000.

Get PPL

Then do what’s necessary to save up money to continue flying and some more to save toward IFR. Start IFR once you have 66-70% of required funds. Continue to do what’s necessary to save remaining amount.

Rinse repeat for other ratings.

Find a good club with good and available aircraft and join.
 
I wonder if there's a significant difference between Saturday/Sunday lessons versus e.g. Sunday/Wednesday, or a single lesson with 3 hours of hobbs time versus two lessons with 1.5 hours each. Obviously with the shorter lessons you spend a lot of extra time repeating things like preflight inspection, startup, taxi, runup, etc. so depending on what you're trying to practice the 3-hour lesson might give you 3-4x more time to practice which might make up for the increased time between lessons.
 
Steve Kanefsky said:
I wonder if there's a significant difference between Saturday/Sunday lessons versus e.g. Sunday/Wednesday, or a single lesson with 3 hours of hobbs time versus two lessons with 1.5 hours each. Obviously with the shorter lessons you spend a lot of extra time repeating things like preflight inspection, startup, taxi, runup, etc. so depending on what you're trying to practice the 3-hour lesson might give you 3-4x more time to practice which might make up for the increased time between lessons.
Click to expand...
For some it may work, but for others, 3+ hours of instruction is overload for a developing student. A traditional lesson allows for the student to digest what’s been taught without having to cram multiple topics into a single lesson.
 
Kylepa28 said:
So I found I school that has pretty reasonable rates? I'm near Tucson fwiw. My original plan was to do it at my pace flying 2-3 times per month as my budget allows. They have basically told me that I should be flying 2x per week and that I should either charge it or save enough until I can do that. Their reasoning is that it's cheaper and I'll retain more in the long run.
My instinct is throwing up flags saying this could be a "get their money as fast as you can" kind of scam but I'm pretty new and wanted some wiser feedback.
Thanks everyone
Click to expand...
Two or three times a month and you'll lose alot of what you learn. Better two or three a week.
 
I tried doing longer single lessons. I found I became fatigued and didn’t learn as well later in the lesson. That might not be the case for younger students.
 
Steve Kanefsky said:
I wonder if there's a significant difference between Saturday/Sunday lessons versus e.g. Sunday/Wednesday, or a single lesson with 3 hours of hobbs time versus two lessons with 1.5 hours each. Obviously with the shorter lessons you spend a lot of extra time repeating things like preflight inspection, startup, taxi, runup, etc. so depending on what you're trying to practice the 3-hour lesson might give you 3-4x more time to practice which might make up for the increased time between lessons.
Click to expand...

I try to stay around an hour to an hour and a half for local lessons. Students can become overwhelmed and/or tired easily. Nothing wrong flying a lesson in the morning say, take a 2-4 hour break and go up again. S/S lessons ok too. The beginning few lessons I keep to no more than 1 1/2 hour, usually an hour as the airport I fly out of is nontowered and the practice area is a few miles east of the field so very efficient time wise to cover everything in the lesson.
 
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mscard88 said:
Nothing wrong flying a lesson in the morning say, take a 2-4 hour break and go up again. S/S lessons ok too.
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Which is what I did. I scheduled two flights on MWF and one flight T,TH,Sat. Usually weather, maintenance or scheduling or a combination of all three changed that to 6 or 7 flights a week. (Plus 1 hurricane)
 
Zeldman said:
Which is what I did. I scheduled two flights on MWF and one flight T,TH,Sat. Usually weather, maintenance or scheduling or a combination of all three changed that to 6 or 7 flights a week. (Plus 1 hurricane)
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Busy boy, kept ya off the street at night. ;)
 
mscard88 said:
Busy boy, kept ya off the street at night. ;)
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Oh no, I still wandered the streets at night fighting crime and saving damsels in distress....:lol::lol:


UNDERDOG+%26+POLLY+FLYING+COLOR.jpg
 
If that’s you, I think I found a photo of Mark with one of his students...

chicken.gif
 
Kylepa28 said:
So I found I school that has pretty reasonable rates? I'm near Tucson fwiw. My original plan was to do it at my pace flying 2-3 times per month as my budget allows. They have basically told me that I should be flying 2x per week and that I should either charge it or save enough until I can do that. Their reasoning is that it's cheaper and I'll retain more in the long run.
My instinct is throwing up flags saying this could be a "get their money as fast as you can" kind of scam but I'm pretty new and wanted some wiser feedback.
Thanks everyone
Click to expand...
I did the 3 hour a month method and managed to finish within the national average of 60 hours. (Average based on someone's post earlier). I figured if I couldn't learn to fly well enough within my projected post training budget then I probably shouldn't. Your mileage may vary. Mine was mostly due to time constraints but I wouldn't want to sit around on the ground waiting for my flying fund to hit $x when I could be flying either.

The only time I felt was wasted was due to issues getting my medical, make sure you do that homework and get that out of the way early. I couldn't solo so I was treading water for a couple or three months.
 
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Ideal: One instructor. I had to switch instructors near the end (another story). I wouldn't call it a setback but has slowed things down.

Ideal: Have enough $$$$ to cover at least the first 40 hours. You probably won't get done but you will mostly solo and get XC's out of the way.

Ideal: Fly 3+ times a week. I couldn't always get my CFI that many times a week. I had pretty good stretch of summer wx but there were many times I couldn't go. Throw in family stuff, time with kids, vacation, work, work travel and 3x a week isn't always easy.

If you are the kind that wants to budget well in advance, budget for a minimum of 60hrs. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE GROUND COSTS. So, yes you can do all the ground school in advance. However, your CFI will most likely spend about 15min up front and another 15min after the flight. So an 1hr flight becomes 1.5 CFI hrs billed. There will be even more ground time charged for going over the solo XC flight plans, etc. So lets say you need 50hrs of flight instruction and 10hrs of solo, you will then need (60 * plane_rental) + (50 * 1.5 * CFI_rate). You know the plane rental and CFI time so do that math.

Factor in CFI moving on: If you pick a CFI that wants to fly for the airlines and has lots of hours they may leave before you finish

Factor in Wx: Up here in MN the cold wx really slows down training. Not sure about Tucson, do people really fly much when its +115F or do they take a few months off.

Factor in Age: If you are 20 you might master this in 49hrs. If you are 60 you might master this in 85hrs. There is no way to know for sure but it seems older pilots require more time.

Credit Cards For Finance: We used two cards. I got a Delta card where you 60,000 miles for spending like $2K. We then did the same with my wife and she got 50,000 miles. After her minimum purchases we tore that card up and will cancel at minimum time. I continue to use mine. I always paid off the balance. However, I purposely waited to start lessons until I knew I had more than enough saved just for this purpose.

Don't waste a penny on flying if you medical is not resolved first.
 
I manage to get 2-3 lessons in per month. In a perfect world, I'd be able to go once a week or more, but since I can't seem to stop squandering my hard-earned wages on food and heat, I have to work for a living which cuts into my schedule. A job is so inconvenient. :D

Anyway, I'm diligent about hitting the books each week and practicing in X-Plane with a yoke and pedals. So far, I'm making good progress and my instructor hasn't had to go back and cover material that we've already touched on. There have been a few V speeds I wish I had memorized, but I've bounced around amongst three different planes and it starts to get a little jumbled. Finally got settled in a 152 and it's not as much of an issue anymore.

It may cost a little more.. It may take a little longer.. I've made peace with both possibilities. I'm learning and having a great time.
 
Hey Timbeck, Alpha Air at KRYN - they include ground school free and flight time is $85/45 cfi. Very reasonable and they are a club as well.
 
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