Question about experience with xwind landing

[LongRoadBob]

Originally was in another thread but it was in a subforum without a lot of response.
I know there are threads about crosswind, all over the place, but I have some specific questions that usually don't get covered I think.

Mainly about characteristics of crosswind. IF there is a way to tell if there is a chance they are only temporary, or certain times of day.

As a student, I'm more than a little fascinated with this topic. Excuse my ignorance, but checking the main idea, the point of go-around instead of abandon landing and go to a different airport is that with gusts you can do a go-around and next time around might be less gusty?

I know weather/winds are not "stable" and there can be no hard and fast rules, but in general...does it often happen that gusty weather settles down after a reasonable time period? I get the feeling gusty weather doesn't last a long time in general. But it can settle a little, then hit again without warning big time, settle again.

Does it ever make sense to wait it out, just forget about landing but if enough fuel that it isn't a problem fly around for a half hour and then try agian?

Has anyone here had muliple go arounds, then finally to catch it at the right time, and favorable for landing?

What other weather signs can help you determine (if any) if this is going to just be a gusty day, or if it will blow itself out and get calm? Does it generally get worse towards sundown?

Trying to just gain some insight from all the experience here, tips, concepts that can help one in a situation like this.

Also, bgmac, very glad you managed that landing so well and all were ok!

 

[tawood]

Although gusts (like nearly all weather) can be temporary, I think the main point of the go-around is just to set yourself up again, maybe this time be better prepared for a gust, and give it another try. I suppose you could hope to be "in between the gusts" but probably not likely. My worst gusts war story, I was flying a Piper Tomahawk, and there was a nearly 90 degree gusty crosswind of like 15g30. It took me three tries to get down, as I was getting tossed around so much I wasn't staying over the runway on the first two. I suppose if the third one hadn't worked, and I had to keep trying, I'd probably call it quits after a couple more, and find a nearby field with a runway more aligned with the wind to "wait it out" as you mentioned....As far as how long to wait? Who knows.

 

[alfadog]

I have had multiple go-arounds at one particular smallish airport on two occasions. Both due to my crappy piloting but decent ADM. One was in a 172 right after I started flying again after 34 years off and the other was in a taildragger Luscombe, actually just one go-around there, IIRC. Nothing particularly xwind on those but if you go-around for xwind I would imagine that gusts could play a part or things did not work out on that attempt the way you would have liked. No biggie.

 

[LongRoadBob]

I'm interested in responses like these (thanks!)

but also...

Anyones' ideas about gusts/weather and telltales that can give one a clue if the gusts are likely to be short lived, or here for the day
I don't know if there are any, and understand that even if there were indications, they wouldn't be necessarily to put all trust in. But just as one with experience learns to anticipate likely movements or fronts, if there are certain things one could look for.

Is it also a "thing" to test for rudder authority/control in winds while aloft, while thinking the winds will actually be slightly less at ground level? Are gusts generally stronger higher, or on the ground?

 

[texasclouds]

Winds are caused by heat exchange right? As the day gets hotter so will the winds increase. Early am and evening will have lighter winds assuming a front isn’t passing through.

 

[alfadog]

I'm interested in responses like these (thanks!)
...
Is it also a "thing" to test for rudder authority/control in winds while aloft, while thinking the winds will actually be slightly less at ground level? Are gusts generally stronger higher, or on the ground?

Wind velocity and direction will change not only due to the ground friction effect but more, IMO, due to channelling and blocking from surface obstructions in a tight environment. You can see what you are getting on short final but, to me, the decision is made during and after the round-out.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Anyones' ideas about gusts/weather and telltales that can give one a clue if the gusts are likely to be short lived, or here for the day

Well the obvious answer is looking at what your weather briefing says. Whats the TAF say?

Beyond that, I think you're over thinking this a bit. Gusts can be a factor when they're extreme (as in the 15G30 case above). But for the most part its been my experience that gusts aren't something I ever had to give much thought to beyond using less flaps and carrying a bit more speed on the landing if things are gusty. Yeah, if you've had several go arounds and still haven't gotten it down, it might be time to find a different runway and wait the weather out a bit.

Sometimes it can also be a matter of looking more closely at the runway you're trying to land on. Is there anything that could be causing mechanical turbulence right before or at your touchdown zone? A building or a clump of trees right next to runway on the upwind side can add an extra level of instability right when you're slowing down for the touchdown. If you have trees or buildings near the end of the runway, but its more wide open further down the runway, you might do better to move your touchdown point further down the runway and stay where the air is more stable, assuming of course the runway is long enough to allow landing long safely.

In the end I think you'll find it really just comes down to hours in the seat. Keep at it and you'll eventually get to the point where you'll realize the conditions you just landed in used to make you anxious and now you land in them without giving it 2nd thought.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Wind velocity and direction will change not only due to the ground friction effect but more, IMO, due to channelling and blocking from surface obstructions in a tight environment. You can see what you are getting on short final but, to me, the decision is made during and after the round-out.

Well the obvious answer is looking at what your weather briefing says. Whats the TAF say?

Beyond that, I think you're over thinking this a bit. Gusts can be a factor when they're extreme (as in the 15G30 case above). But for the most part its been my experience that gusts aren't something I ever had to give much thought to beyond using less flaps and carrying a bit more speed on the landing if things are gusty. Yeah, if you've had several go arounds and still haven't gotten it down, it might be time to find a different runway and wait the weather out a bit.

Sometimes it can also be a matter of looking more closely at the runway you're trying to land on. Is there anything that could be causing mechanical turbulence right before or at your touchdown zone? A building or a clump of trees right next to runway on the upwind side can add an extra level of instability right when you're slowing down for the touchdown. If you have trees or buildings near the end of the runway, but its more wide open further down the runway, you might do better to move your touchdown point further down the runway and stay where the air is more stable, assuming of course the runway is long enough to allow landing long safely.

In the end I think you'll find it really just comes down to hours in the seat. Keep at it and you'll eventually get to the point where you'll realize the conditions you just landed in used to make you anxious and now you land in them without giving it 2nd thought.

I do check weather briefings TAF, etc. but currently am in a smaller airport, untowered, and no TAF info. The normal checks I have been taught so far is checking the TAFS at the closest airports that have them. The weather is usually close, but the winds can vary a lot from the nearest airport to mine.

But I understand that, and yes, I do tend to overthink, but it is really just trying to get the mindset that normally comes with experience, minus the terror filled moments if possible. I'm an experience cheater.

But seriously, what you wrote here is a huge help. It may be you guys that have been doing this forgot how it was a little as a student, but I work on my homework, learn, but one huge help is to hear you guys when you talk about your thought process, decision making and how you go about that.

These are some great tips (yours and others already posted) like looking closer at the lay of the land, or that maybe if it toward sunset, and very gusty and one has enough fuel, might be an idea to try and wait a little, make sure enough fuel to go to an alternate, but see if it lets up. Things like that. I know there can't be hard and fast rules, as weather doesn't work that way. But this helps a lot. and Thanks.

 

[alfadog]

Technique I was playing around with in a taildragger on a wide grass field with a strong direct xwind: Approach 45 degrees to the runway with a quartering tailwind, land in the turn and end up stopped and facing a quartering headwind.

 

[tawood]

...In the end I think you'll find it really just comes down to hours in the seat. Keep at it and you'll eventually get to the point where you'll realize the conditions you just landed in used to make you anxious and now you land in them without giving it 2nd thought.

^^^This^^^

Fly when it's "slightly uncomfortable" for you...

As a new pilot, I would cancel flights if there was any crosswind component over 10 knots, but then I got tired of cancelling flights, so I started practicing those crosswinds. Now, I don't even really notice them until the wind gets extreme.

 

[PaulS]

Bob, it doesn't matter, it is what it is. Get the weather, calculate the crosswind, or if no weather, find the wind sock while in the pattern. I'm generally not concerned about the angle if it's below 30 degrees unless the wind is really howling, maybe over 20 knots. At 30 degrees to the runway the x wind is 0.5 of the total wind. In other words if 20 knots, the x wind is 10. At 45 degrees the x wind is 0.7 of the total wind, or about 14 knots at 20 total wind and 60 degrees is about 0.9 or 18 knots for a 20 knot wind, so as far as I'm concerned any wind approaching 60 degrees or higher X wind is pretty much a direct crosswind, you don't need to be splitting hairs here, just get an idea what's going on, have an idea what your personal x wind max is and if the wind is there use another runway or airport.

I like to crab to stay aligned on final, it's been pretty windy around here in the past month or two so sometimes there is a pretty impressive crab angle 500 feet above the runway. As you get lower the wind usually slackens so the compensation is always changing, just stay aligned. At about 30 to 50 feet I switch from a crab to a slip. I like to do this to make sure I have enough authority to land aligned with the runway. Just keep that slip in, adjusting as necessary (you might need more as you slow in the flare) until you land. If you start moving sideways add more aileron and rudder. If you can't stop the sideways motion go around. I had a landing a few months ago where I let up on the x wind correction and the plane started moving sideways when I touched down, not a fun feeling, the plane jerked to straight down the runway, it was a slight sideways motion, I never want to experience a faster sideways motion ( I was with an instructor and got duly admonished). About a week ago I was landing 18 g 28 about 30 degrees to the runway. During the flare the plane started going sideways, I added more aileron and opposite rudder, landed on one wheel, it was one of my better landings. I was ready to cram that throttle for the go around though.

Just study how to do x wind landings and practice with your instructor, it becomes fun after a while but never be afraid to go around.


As far as your other question, if there is not another runway I would give it 2 tries unless it's obviously futile, then I would give up and probably go to another airport.

 

[Juliet Hotel]

Consider these two pics.

Here we've got a single runway airport. You've got civilization on one side and open water and marsh land on the other side. If the wind is coming from the Northwest, its gong to coming across that bay and should be fairly stable right down to the surface because the terrain is wide open on that side of the runway. But lets look a bit closer.

Its tough to see from this angle but if you look to the left of runway you see a handful of trees there. Those trees are probably 60ft tall. So if the wind is going to move across that bay right down on the deck. When it hits those trees, its going to go up and over them and then it will want to drop back down on the other side. Which is right where you're going to be coming low and slow when you're trying to touch down. So you'll fly the whole approach keeping it nice and steady as you can and then right as you come over the numbers, whamo and the plane will be going anywhere except where you want it to go. Move your touchdown point a little further down beyond those trees, and the problem goes away.

 

[Hang 4]

Depends on what’s causing the gusts. Post-frontal days there is just a basic mixmaster of strong winds, mechanical turbulence and instability. On days with really unstable air, you get gusts caused by thermals. These can be quite strong depending on the day and geography. Dry, desert areas with lots of heating can see very strong gusts.

Look for direction changes during the gusts. If it’s changing a lot, it’s more likely thermic. Not much change in direction, the it’s more frontal. With the first, a go-around will likely be very different on the second try. With the latter, might be better to find a different runway or airport.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Wow...thanks all, this is gold for me. Literally all posts had something I can use. Thanks!
...and as always, keep 'em coming!

 

[Stewartb]

The gust factor isn’t as big a problem as mechanical turbulence. When the wind is disturbed by mountains, buildings, trees, etc you can’t predict how it will impact the airplane. Any wind is exciting when you have obstructions upwind but add a gust factor and the excitement level goes up. The same effect is more scary on departure because you aren’t in as good a position to control the plane. A pilot who’s unfamiliar with a difficult LZ will fly it more conservatively than a pilot who flies that strip every day in different conditions. Experience isn’t taught in books. Or on the internet.

 

[drjcustis]

Learn to land a canopy after skydiving. Crossing, mechanical turbulence, flair, it all makes a lot more sense.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[midlifeflyer]

Originally was in another thread but it was in a subforum without a lot of response.
I know there are threads about crosswind, all over the place, but I have some specific questions that usually don't get covered I think.

Mainly about characteristics of crosswind. IF there is a way to tell if there is a chance they are only temporary, or certain times of day.

Some of this will be repetitious.

Most gusts are associated with a weather system, so a briefing should give you a decent idea what's happening and how long it will last.

More generally, Experience. I'm not talking about flying experience as much as experience paying attention to the weather in an area. For example, at my old home base in Colorado, the winds generally started out light from the southeast in the morning, moving clockwise through the day and increasing in intensity in the afternoon. CFIs would schedule flights for newer students in the morning and advanced students in the late afternoon when it was a gusty crosswind.

As a student, I'm more than a little fascinated with this topic. Excuse my ignorance, but checking the main idea, the point of go-around instead of abandon landing and go to a different airport is that with gusts you can do a go-around and next time around might be less gusty?

No. The point of a go-around is a decision that things are not looking right for whatever reason. Crosswinds might be one but are far the only one.

I know weather/winds are not "stable" and there can be no hard and fast rules, but in general...does it often happen that gusty weather settles down after a reasonable time period? I get the feeling gusty weather doesn't last a long time in general. But it can settle a little, then hit again without warning big time, settle again.

Does it ever make sense to wait it out, just forget about landing but if enough fuel that it isn't a problem fly around for a half hour and then try agian?

It might take more than a few minutes, especially if the gusts are associated (as the often are) with a weather system. You might be better off diverting to an airport with better wind conditions, even if it avoiding a gusting crosswind, have a snack and wait it out there. BTDT

Has anyone here had muliple go arounds, then finally to catch it at the right time, and favorable for landing?

Sure.

 

[Dan Thomas]

s it also a "thing" to test for rudder authority/control in winds while aloft, while thinking the winds will actually be slightly less at ground level? Are gusts generally stronger higher, or on the ground?

In open, flatter country where there isn't significant terrain to upset wind directions, the winds aloft can be from significantly different directions than on the ground. There can be a difference of as much as 30 degrees. The circulation around a high- or low-pressure area follows the isobars when aloft, but moves outward around a high or inward around a low when the surface friction slows the wind enough that the pressure gradient starts overcoming Coriolis Force.

So on approach, whether in a high or low, you will normally find the wind weakening and coming more from the left as you descend. If aloft you find a strong crosswind from the right, it won't likely be as bad on the ground. If it's from the left, it will get more from the left, but weaker.

Earlier in the day, before the nocturnal inversion has disappeared, you can often find strong winds a couple hundred feet above the ground and nothing at all on the runway. Lots of wind shear there. Watch out.

 

[danhagan]

Mainly about characteristics of crosswind. IF there is a way to tell if there is a chance they are only temporary, or certain times of day.

No. I did night currency a few years back and was *supposed* to be winds calm all night by DUATS and FSS call. flew to the nearby Class C, and things got interesting after the 3rd stop-n-go. At home drome winds were 25G33 90* to the runway. On approach I lost 100 feet in windshear on short final in nothing flat. Updated Super-AWOS 2 seconds after reported winds 44G55. Flew to the next town 15 min away and landed in calm wind and spent the night.

Has anyone here had muliple go arounds, then finally to catch it at the right time, and favorable for landing?

Yes, did two recently at KEDC (Austin Exec) and landed on the third approach. Ran out of rudder on the first two attempts, but could've landed angling across the runway. Didn't as I was bringing home a new to me airplane, and was fully prepared to go to Taylor or the main airport if the 3rd try didn't work .... College Station was final multi-runway option if things got REAL ugly (still had 2 hours of fuel).

 

[Hippike]

Here's a little exercise for you

Do you know this site?
https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/request/download.phtml

You can select Norway and from the stations list, select your (or nearest to you) airport and pick a time frame (you can select the entire year or just a few days/weeks at a time) and you'll get all the metar info in a new window of your browser.

If you are using Firefox, click ctrl+F that will open up the finder bar at the bottom of the page. Enter the letter G. Click "highlight all" and look at the page. You should see something like this:



Of course if your station name has the letter g in it, it sucks or if your local area gets a lot of fog (FG on the metar) will also be highlighted and the exercise doesn't work.

Anyway, the reason I am showing this is simple.
This will give you (if it works) a general sense of gust at the local airport.
For this exercise I selected one of the airports I use. I only selected November 1 thru today.
By using the "find" and "highlight all" feature of Firefox I can see clearly that there were only 1 (maybe 2) day in the two months period when there was any gust factor, and those were only limited to around lunch time and lasted for about an hour. By looking at my station and highlighting the gust factor on the page confirms my experience with this airport, which is: there is hardly any gust at this airport and if there is, it is usually mid day and doesn't last long.

Again, this is California and we have a pretty steady good wx here, but this gives me an idea of what to expect, especially if I am going to an airport where I've never been to, checking the historical metar for the past few days/weeks/month (or even the same time last year info) will give me a general idea of what to expect in terms of winds/gusts.

 

[Clip4]

Winds are caused by heat exchange right? As the day gets hotter so will the winds increase. Early am and evening will have lighter winds assuming a front isn’t passing through.

Buzz, wrong answer.

 

[Sinistar]

I am no master of crosswind landings. But I know one thing, if it is gusty, I have yet to find a short period of time where the gusts are down and to land between them. If you listen to one minute wx you rarely hear report 'T+0" indicate gusts, report "T+1" with no gusts and update "T+2" with gusts again...unless they are dying down. So that tells me you would probably have less than 1 minute and its probably even less like 30 seconds. Just not enough time to plan a landing time around.

You mention no nearby TAF's but when it comes to landing the one minute wx will be the most important. Do you have a ASOS/AWOS that you can listen to on the way towards the airport? I like to listen to about 3...5 different ones as I arrive. It gives you a idea of how continuous or erratic the wind and gusts are.

Next comes the obvious, in the evening especially in the summer just waiting 15-30 minutes can have a huge effect on the winds dying down. Here (Minnesota) it seems like once you around 1.5hrs before sunset (give or take a bit) the gusts will really die off quickly.

I have been using Windy quite a bit. First I look at winds and then I look at wind gusts. You can get a pretty good picture of where the gustiness is and how long lived it will be.

 

[Sinistar]

Is it also a "thing" to test for rudder authority/control in winds while aloft, while thinking the winds will actually be slightly less at ground level? Are gusts generally stronger higher, or on the ground?

I think you can practice the cross control slip at altitude but I don't think wind gusts can really occur once you are up off the ground and thus the rudder authority test (for gusts) would probably be impossible.

If you can do slow flight at altitude with a 90 degree crosswind (which you can easily set up) you could cross control slip and see if you have enough rudder to keep the plane angled straight with a wing down into the wind. But you'll need to be high enough to be safe and able to recover from a stall so judging the rudder authority probably isn't really obvious up that high.

Once you are off the ground and increase in altitude, the very thing that causes gusts (friction) has been removed thus gusts are a ground only thing. This quick article, especially the timing and when gusts are reported was interesting!

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints3/963/

 

[Sinistar]

Well this one says around 2 minutes between gusts...almost enough to plan a landing around!

http://www.differencebetween.net/science/nature/difference-between-gust-and-wind/

 

[Silvaire]

Many different factors are the causes of wind and gusts, weather, terrain, thermal activity. Bottom line is that once you actually start flying places you’re going to encounter them at some point due to any or all of the above. It’s one of the reasons not to get to your destination with no gas left, it’s not always predictable and something you don’t have control over so you can’t reliably plan around it. Maybe for awhile but sooner or later you just have to face it. Either that or don’t ever go anywhere.

 

[chemgeek]

Unless you are flying near thunderstorms or other local wind producing weather phenomenon, the winds are not likely to change much during the fuel time you have left in a flight. So it is wise to be prepared to deal with likely forecast winds at both departure and destination airports, either by having good xwind technique or by selecting a destination with an acceptable xwind component.

Orographic turbulence caused by even steady winds blowing over or around obstacles like trees, buildings, hills, etc. are likely to cause as much or more trouble than gusty crosswinds over flat terrain. That's my world at KVGC where westerlies flow over a 400-500 foot ridgeline and also over trees immediately west of the runway approach end. It's fun to watch itinerants deal with the burbles in a windy day. Locals know to land beyond the trees.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Unless you are flying near thunderstorms or other local wind producing weather phenomenon, the winds are not likely to change much during the fuel time you have left in a flight. So it is wise to be prepared to deal with likely forecast winds at both departure and destination airports, either by having good xwind technique or by selecting a destination with an acceptable xwind component.

Orographic turbulence caused by even steady winds blowing over or around obstacles like trees, buildings, hills, etc. are likely to cause as much or more trouble than gusty crosswinds over flat terrain. That's my world at KVGC where westerlies flow over a 400-500 foot ridgeline and also over trees immediately west of the runway approach end. It's fun to watch itinerants deal with the burbles in a windy day. Locals know to land beyond the trees.

You remind me of a small airport I used to go to for landing practice. The runway was north-south. The prevailing winds were due west. There were hangars along the west side and ever time you passed a hangar on the roundout and flare, the wind would increase and decrease.

 

[Ravioli]

Just remember the 1/2 the gust factor increase in approach speed and practice.

Like all else, it will come with practice. And then it will be fun!

 

[LongRoadBob]

The gust factor isn’t as big a problem as mechanical turbulence. When the wind is disturbed by mountains, buildings, trees, etc you can’t predict how it will impact the airplane. Any wind is exciting when you have obstructions upwind but add a gust factor and the excitement level goes up. The same effect is more scary on departure because you aren’t in as good a position to control the plane. A pilot who’s unfamiliar with a difficult LZ will fly it more conservatively than a pilot who flies that strip every day in different conditions. Experience isn’t taught in books. Or on the internet.

So it sounds like, at least on your home field, you can learn those tendencies and they become familiar. Or am I reading this wrong and some mechanical turbulence is just plain flaky and can't be predicted because of differing wind angles, etc.?

Or it depends on experience over time and if the pilot is aware. Like it mostly can be learned. And more predictable.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Some of this will be repetitious.

Most gusts are associated with a weather system, so a briefing should give you a decent idea what's happening and how long it will last.

More generally, Experience. I'm not talking about flying experience as much as experience paying attention to the weather in an area. For example, at my old home base in Colorado, the winds generally started out light from the southeast in the morning, moving clockwise through the day and increasing in intensity in the afternoon. CFIs would schedule flights for newer students in the morning and advanced students in the late afternoon when it was a gusty crosswind.


No. The point of a go-around is a decision that things are not looking right for whatever reason. Crosswinds might be one but are far the only one.


It might take more than a few minutes, especially if the gusts are associated (as the often are) with a weather system. You might be better off diverting to an airport with better wind conditions, even if it avoiding a gusting crosswind, have a snack and wait it out there. BTDT


Sure.

Thanks too. As a student, I have become a title fascinated with weather, wind, etc.

a subject that as a younger man I thought was uninteresting (how could I have thought that?) and later in life I started wanting to know the minumum to be able to plan camping trips etc. and now as a student...I'm fascinated. I think other than my being a pilot ambitions, it really is that I crossed the threshold of starting to learn enough to understand how it can be understood, but never totally and almost never with absolute certainty. It's a lot of tendancies, but they do follow rules, or we make rules around what it tends to do.

So, as you say, at my cabin I haven't been like my grandfather at his cabin, logging in the cabin book the weather each day and barometer readings but I have noticed tendancies and they happen more often than not. It's on a lake in a valley of not very high hills, but high enough for some interesting winds. In the morning it is calm and the lake glassy as a mirror. Beautiful. Since the sunlight here in Norway, in the north, can vary a good deal, and all the other variables it still most of the time in summer picks up pretty good by 11, and gets heavy winds, with lots of gusts usually in one direction. In the afternoon it gets more gusty, but then newer sundown...pretty calm again.

I found out just how much mechanical disturbance there is when I bought a little sailboat and me and my son tried to learn to sail int eh little lake. At first we would pick out trees, or a flag or two on shore, and try to figure out the wind vs. relative wind...or just wind. We have experienced reciprocal winds from what the flag on the shore is showing. It's a small, thin lake and we try and visualize what it is doing with the wind.

I watched a YouTube video of some pilot talking about mechanical wind, relative mountain flying and his point that "think of it like water in a stream, how does the water act from a smaller opening to a larger or opposite, or over smalle, medium, or large rocks? The wind is doing the same thing". If correct, that helped me a lot.

At my home in Oslo I haven't "figured out" the tendencies yet. Seems less predictable. Not sure what. Would be interesting to find out.

How the hell did I get this interested in winds, and weather?

 

[Matthew]

I have had 2 really memorable xwind landings (OK, 3, I thought of another one), but only one with heavy gusts.

Winds were really blowing, and I think there was close to a 10 kt gust factor. What I didn't know is that the wind had shifted and increased when I was on final. My tower will normally give a wind check when that happens, but that time did not. After I horsed it down to what turned out to be a good landing, but one that took way more effort than I was used to, I called for a wind-check. After tower told me what the winds were I was glad that I didn't know until AFTER I was down or I would have probably scared myself out of that landing.

Local terrain will really play with surface winds, as others have noted. You'll start to get an eye for that with time, I'm still working on it. Every landing is different, every time. Even a slight change in wind direction can change the way it flows over that dip in the ground near the rwy, or that treeline, or that row of hangars, or whatever else is in the way.

I was always told to add half the gust factor: so with a 10 kt gust factor (15G25 for example), add 5 kts to your 1.3Vso or whatever you normally use. That should keep you safely above stall speed. If you don't know the gust factor, you'll have to figure a way to account for it.

Always be ready for a go around. Ask your CFI to holler at you to do a go around at random times, even if you have just put a tire on the ground.

 

[LongRoadBob]

I am no master of crosswind landings. But I know one thing, if it is gusty, I have yet to find a short period of time where the gusts are down and to land between them. If you listen to one minute wx you rarely hear report 'T+0" indicate gusts, report "T+1" with no gusts and update "T+2" with gusts again...unless they are dying down. So that tells me you would probably have less than 1 minute and its probably even less like 30 seconds. Just not enough time to plan a landing time around.

You mention no nearby TAF's but when it comes to landing the one minute wx will be the most important. Do you have a ASOS/AWOS that you can listen to on the way towards the airport? I like to listen to about 3...5 different ones as I arrive. It gives you a idea of how continuous or erratic the wind and gusts are.

Next comes the obvious, in the evening especially in the summer just waiting 15-30 minutes can have a huge effect on the winds dying down. Here (Minnesota) it seems like once you around 1.5hrs before sunset (give or take a bit) the gusts will really die off quickly.

I have been using Windy quite a bit. First I look at winds and then I look at wind gusts. You can get a pretty good picture of where the gustiness is and how long lived it will be.

Thanks Sinistar, this is good info too (I really have lucked out with advice in this thread..all of it is useful to me so far) and...this site is great. It makes me go check my ground school books (I've passed the exams, but not at all sure about what if forgotten or not retained) and no...I don't see any mention of AWOS/ASOS in my books.
Not sure Norway has it but pretty sure my airport doesn't. Up until now they've had a wind sock...and a broken "weather station" in the clubhouse and just replaced that. But no info while flying.

It's good info that you haven't experienced a go around helping with gusts. I don't know if your experience is mostly at your specific airport, but it led me to realize I mainly need to just talk with other pilots in my club and listen to what they tell me about my particular field and gusts, etc. this should have been a no brainer.

But even as you say, sometimes in the evening when the sun is less strong (and the difference in reflecting surfaces less intense) waiting 30 minutes could help. That helped me think that if sufficient fuel (also for an alternate) one option would be try a few times, go fly some more and come back if it is later in the day...maybe.

Also, Minnesota is pretty similar to Norway. I grew up in Chicago and spending summers on Lake Superior in Wisconsin, and know Michigan too...when I came to Norway I realized why so many Norwegians settled there.
The maybe landed on the east coast, went west, got to a place that "looked like home" and said "this is nice!"
Even down to Wisconsin having more swedes (not sure about the Finns) where it is more like Sweden.

Thanks for the help!

 

[LongRoadBob]

I think you can practice the cross control slip at altitude but I don't think wind gusts can really occur once you are up off the ground and thus the rudder authority test (for gusts) would probably be impossible.

If you can do slow flight at altitude with a 90 degree crosswind (which you can easily set up) you could cross control slip and see if you have enough rudder to keep the plane angled straight with a wing down into the wind. But you'll need to be high enough to be safe and able to recover from a stall so judging the rudder authority probably isn't really obvious up that high.

Once you are off the ground and increase in altitude, the very thing that causes gusts (friction) has been removed thus gusts are a ground only thing. This quick article, especially the timing and when gusts are reported was interesting!

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints3/963/

After I asked, I realized that one. I know (first from "Stick and Rudder") there is no real wind gusts...but I think there is a little when pressure differences etc. quicker than the plane can adjust to, but I see now it cannot be the same because it is the mechanical that is most influence in it. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Clip4]

The secret to making good crosswind approach and landings is more about ADM than stick and rudder skills.