question about CFI for single engine sea

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alanbreck

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What does it take to give flight instruction for single engine sea? My friend's CFI rating says "Airplane Single Engine". So does that mean they can go jump in a J-3 on floats and give dual?
 
61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:

(b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:

(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and

(2) If appropriate, a type rating.

Does your friend have an ASES certificate?
 
Yeah, I understand that but a simple one about the privileges and limitations of one's certificate.... come on.
 
And: I got my SES with 5.1 hours. Four more and I'll be through my commercial.

And, I won't teach floats until I have way more time in 'em.
 
Short answer, yes a CFI single engine who holds a SES on his pilots ticket can instruct.

Long answer, call your insurance company
 
Here's a question for the CFIIs...if your cosmetically pilot certificate says ASEL & instrument airplane, and your CFI ticket says airplane single engine, instrument airplane, can you give instrument instruction in a ASES? Can you log PIC time? Show your work.
 
Brad Z said:
Here's a question for the CFIIs...if your cosmetically pilot certificate says ASEL & instrument airplane, and your CFI ticket says airplane single engine, instrument airplane, can you give instrument instruction in a ASES? Can you log PIC time? Show your work.
Click to expand...

No and no. See post #2
 
Friend needs to have commercial ASES then he can instruct in it.
 
Brad Z said:
Correct. You'd be surprised by how many people think that if their CFI ticket allows it, they can.
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I'm not sure how anyone could think they could teach in an aircraft for which they are not qualified to fly.
 
Can you give instrument instruction in an amphib that's operated only from land while you're instructing if you don't have a Sea rating on your Pilot Certificate?
 
Brad Z said:
Here's a question for the CFIIs...if your cosmetically pilot certificate says ASEL & instrument airplane, and your CFI ticket says airplane single engine, instrument airplane, can you give instrument instruction in a ASES? Can you log PIC time? Show your work.
Click to expand...
What is a "cosmetically pilot certificate"? One with lipstick all over it? One held by someone who also holds a licesne for har cutting or comsetology? I can't find a reference to it in the FAR :D
 
LDJones said:
I'm not sure how anyone could think they could teach in an aircraft for which they are not qualified to fly.
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Done all the time. If you are talking about meeting FAA requirements, I agree with you but "qualified" means a lot more than that to me.
 
alanbreck said:
Yes, commercial privileges for both ASEL/ASES.
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The yes. At least from a purely regulatory perspective. There is no ASEL, ASES, AMEL, AMES rating for the CFI certificate as there is for pilot certificates. Just ASE and AME. The final L and S come along with the commercial pilot certificate.

From a practical standpoint, there might be a different answer.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Can you give instrument instruction in an amphib that's operated only from land while you're instructing if you don't have a Sea rating on your Pilot Certificate?
Click to expand...

That was going to be my next question. Yes you can.

For that matter, if you're doing training for your ASES add on to your pilot certificate in an amphib, what portion of the flight can you legally log as PIC prior to passing the checkride?
 
LDJones said:
I'm not sure how anyone could think they could teach in an aircraft for which they are not qualified to fly.
Click to expand...

See the amphibious note. If its a seaplane only (i.e. Straight floats) you cannot. But if the seaplane is also a land plane, you can, provided to stick to landing on the surface you are rated to use.

There's also the issue some have argued that you're not doing seaplane training, you're doing instrument training. As mentioned, the instructor still needs to hold the rating on his/her pilot certificate.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Done all the time. If you are talking about meeting FAA requirements, I agree with you but "qualified" means a lot more than that to me.
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Indeed, and I highly doubt any owner or insurer is going to get you PIC, let alone instruct in a seaplane, or even more so an amphib, without more than a weekend course ink wet SES on your ticket.
 
Brad Z said:
That was going to be my next question. Yes you can.
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No you can't, as @Brad Z already said. You need the appropriate rating on you commercil pilot certificate.

For that matter, if you're doing training for your ASES add on to your pilot certificate in an amphib, what portion of the flight can you legally log as PIC prior to passing the checkride?
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None. You're not rated. Unless of course you solo and are endorsed by the CFI for solo.
 
The amphib thing is odd, if you ask diffrent FSDOs you can get diffrent answers.

And please, no one wright a letter, we all know that never turns out well.

Here's a better one, do you log amphib time as sea time even if you take off and land on pavement, I'll tell you most in the industry do, and the insurance company charges the same.
 
midlifeflyer said:
No you can't, as @Brad Z already said. You need the appropriate rating on you commercil pilot certificate.


None. You're not rated. Unless of course you solo and are endorsed by the CFI for solo.
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Actually, you can. SPA seems to think so and includes this on their FAQ...I suspect they have a letter from FAA regional counsel. I haven't seen a legal interpreting specifically for this issue, although this one indirectly suggests it.

Further, there's the totally non-regulatory, but useful as a hint as of how the FAA might respond 2005 John Lynch FAQ:

QUESTION: What are the ratings needed to fly an amphibious airplane (Lake, Grumman Goose, etc.)? Does the PIC need both land and sea ratings, or can the pilot operate with only one of the ratings if operations are only to/from the surface on which the pilot is rated? I'd appreciate an “official” view. And we're not looking at ME vs. SE -- let's assume we're talking about a Lake Buccaneer and a pilot with only PVT-ASEL flying off land, or only PVT-ASES flying off water.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.31(d)(1). Only the appropriate rating (land/sea) is required. To operate an amphibious airplane for water operations using the float landing gear, one must hold the Airplane Single-engine Sea or Airplane Multiengine Sea rating, as appropriate. To operate an amphibious airplane for land operations using the wheeled landing gear, one must hold the Airplane Single-engine Land or Airplane Multiengine Land rating, as appropriate.
 
Brad Z said:
Actually, you can. SPA seems to think so and includes this on their FAQ...I suspect they have a letter from FAA regional counsel. I haven't seen a legal interpreting specifically for this issue, although this one indirectly suggests it.

Further, there's the totally non-regulatory, but useful as a hint as of how the FAA might respond 2005 John Lynch FAQ:

QUESTION: What are the ratings needed to fly an amphibious airplane (Lake, Grumman Goose, etc.)? Does the PIC need both land and sea ratings, or can the pilot operate with only one of the ratings if operations are only to/from the surface on which the pilot is rated? I'd appreciate an “official” view. And we're not looking at ME vs. SE -- let's assume we're talking about a Lake Buccaneer and a pilot with only PVT-ASEL flying off land, or only PVT-ASES flying off water.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.31(d)(1). Only the appropriate rating (land/sea) is required. To operate an amphibious airplane for water operations using the float landing gear, one must hold the Airplane Single-engine Sea or Airplane Multiengine Sea rating, as appropriate. To operate an amphibious airplane for land operations using the wheeled landing gear, one must hold the Airplane Single-engine Land or Airplane Multiengine Land rating, as appropriate.
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I thought the question was about an ASEL in an ASES, not about an ASEL in an amphib with the wheels down. Looking back I see I misread it.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I thought the question was about an ASEL in an ASES, not about an ASEL in an amphib with the wheels down. Looking back I see I misread it.
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As in flying an amphib around with th gear left down, that is a really, really bad idea.
 
And thus we have the conundrum that faces us in aviation when we try to decipher one's experience based upon hours alone rather than types and numbers of operations. For instance, the thing that really differentiates seaplanes from land planes is the takeoffs & landings on water. As we already know (or should), the number of hours to the number of landings does not follow a fixed ratio. To place true value on one's experience with seaplanes, it is best to place far more emphasis on takeoffs & landings rather than flight hours. If someone is flying very long cross country flights, he will do far less takeoffs and landings than does someone who is flying short hops but doing the same number of hours. Once you are airborne, a seaplane flies pretty much the same as a land plane so flight time is not the best indicator of skill when discussing certain types of flying. Now throw in amphibians where one decides to log all his time and all his takeoffs and landings as seaplane regardless of whether the operations were on land or water and you can get a highly misleading and basically dishonest representation of the pilot's skills as a seaplane pilot. My suggestion is to log your time as true to the actual type of operation as possible, not to log it in a deceitful manner intended to give some inflated sense of experience or skill.

Disclaimer: I am a pretty low time seaplane pilot so just take my comments for what they are, just my opinion.
 
James331 said:
The amphib thing is odd, if you ask diffrent FSDOs you can get diffrent answers.

And please, no one wright a letter, we all know that never turns out well.

Here's a better one, do you log amphib time as sea time even if you take off and land on pavement, I'll tell you most in the industry do, and the insurance company charges the same.
Click to expand...

I'd say yes....you're landing a seaplane so it's logged as ASES.
 
Thing is with amphibs and land ops, probably the safest gear, land gear up, no biggie, off field in a freshly plowed field, gear up and near 0 chance of flipping, plus you have 4 wheels super spread out
 
Anyone have a recommendation for best insurers for owners of SES?
 
My impression is that there are only 2 or 3 places in the nation that rent out seaplanes.
 
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