Question about AIM

[SkyHog]

Ok - the other thread got me thinking. AIM 4-3-3 says:

5. If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude.

Ok - this would mean climbing to 700ft agl at my home airport, and that is never done. I've often heard "climb to 300ft then turn" but never to climb to within 300ft of TPA then climb. Does anyone actually climb that high before turning crosswind?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Ok - the other thread got me thinking. AIM 4-3-3 says:



Ok - this would mean climbing to 700ft agl at my home airport, and that is never done. I've often heard "climb to 300ft then turn" but never to climb to within 300ft of TPA then climb. Does anyone actually climb that high before turning crosswind?

We do routinely at BFI for noise abatement (600 AGL minimum) but there's a hill/ridge with airp-lane hating houses the whole length of RWYs 13/31!

 

[Ed Guthrie]

I've often heard "climb to 300ft then turn" but never to climb to within 300ft of TPA then climb. Does anyone actually climb that high before turning crosswind?

Every time unless I have a very compelling reason to do otherwise (i.e. local noise abatement rules, tower instruction, etc.).

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Ok - this would mean climbing to 700ft agl at my home airport, and that is never done. I've often heard "climb to 300ft then turn" but never to climb to within 300ft of TPA then climb. Does anyone actually climb that high before turning crosswind?

In an airplane, I do. In a helicopter I'll wherever I get the most hospitable terrain but usually no more than 200' agl.

 

[silver-eagle]

During primary training, we always used 700' as the marker for the turn to cross unless ATC directed otherwise. One of the airports has a slight left turn "as soon as practical" for noise abatement.
Pardon me, but if you don't like the sound of (pick your favorite noise maker), MOVE! Having spent 12 years on the local planning board, it was an arguement we had with neighbors next to industrial zones all the time.
Noise abatement.... Really.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

There are times here when the da exceeds 8000'. To turn crosswind at that altitude in a 172 can mean you would have to go clear into the next county, I see guys doing much lower patterns in order to stay a safe & reasonable distance from the airport.

 

[SkyHog]

There are times here when the da exceeds 8000'. To turn crosswind at that altitude in a 172 can mean you would have to go clear into the next county, I see guys doing much lower patterns in order to stay a safe & reasonable distance from the airport.

Ok - that must be why it doesn't happen here either then. After about April, we start to hit DAs in the 8s and 9s and it doesn't end until October I suppose. That must be why 700 feet seems unfathomable to me.

 

[ScottM]

I usually will not turn until at least 400ft AGL after any take off

 

[Matthew]

Our (towered) airport has noise abatement, no turns below 500AGL. With a 1000'AGL TPA, we normally begin turns at +500' (yes, the AIM would indicate a turn at +700'). With a 4000' runway, we are almost always beyond the departure end before that point anyway. Climb during the turns to downwind and you're at TPA nicely.

We are a busy class-D airport, with 2-3 aircraft in the pattern almost all the time. Consistently flying patterns that are too low, too tight, or too wide will turn you into a celebrity.

At a non-towered airport, I try to follow the AIM and A/FD recommendations. Basically, local behavior may be different, but until I'm familiar enough with what the locals do, I'm by-the-book.

I once asked about this same subject - When taking off from a 12,000' rwy, do you really need to wait until past the departure end to turn? I think most of the answers I got were of the 'use common sense' variety. If the guy in front of you waits to turn, and you don't, things can get interesting.

 

[Missa]

As a habit I turn to cross at 500ft agl. One airport has a 45deg turn as soon as possible for noise abatment, usually it's around 200ft, but I make it a REALLY shallow turn. I've also made a shallow turn earlier then 500ft when tower asks. But agian it's no lower then about 200ft.

Missa

 

[poadeleted20]

I usually will not turn until at least 400ft AGL after any take off

I used to think that way, but an examiner taught me better on a practical test. He pointed out that directly ahead of the airport was nothing but pine trees, while 30 degrees to the right was a big clear area. He pointed out that if one lost the engine, one would be better off having turned early. IOW, it's all situations, and sometimes turning as soon as your wingtip won't hit the ground is the best choice (e.g., a very large obstacle off the departure end); in other cases (e.g., an airport down in a gorge) you might climb a couple thousand feet before turning.

But unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, I follow the AIM recommendation and climb to TPA-300 before turning crosswind when staying in the pattern.

 

[AirBaker]

KRHV has a 30 degree turn off of 31R as soon as practicable for noise abatement. For instrument departures, no turns below 400 feet MSL.

 

[Henning]

Ok - the other thread got me thinking. AIM 4-3-3 says:



Ok - this would mean climbing to 700ft agl at my home airport, and that is never done. I've often heard "climb to 300ft then turn" but never to climb to within 300ft of TPA then climb. Does anyone actually climb that high before turning crosswind?

Uhhhhhh....I've got about 1100 hrs straight where I NEVER flew to that altitude.

 

[ScottM]

I used to think that way, but an examiner taught me better on a practical test. He pointed out that directly ahead of the airport was nothing but pine trees, while 30 degrees to the right was a big clear area. He pointed out that if one lost the engine, one would be better off having turned early. IOW, it's all situations, and sometimes turning as soon as your wingtip won't hit the ground is the best choice (e.g., a very large obstacle off the departure end); in other cases (e.g., an airport down in a gorge) you might climb a couple thousand feet before turning.

But unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, I follow the AIM recommendation and climb to TPA-300 before turning crosswind when staying in the pattern.

All very good points, which is why I mentioned the usually part. When I depart runway 22 at KSRQ I will make a left or right turn pretty soon after takeoff because straight ahead is only the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[EdFred]

I generally climb to 800' before making a turn. 800' is our TPA I'm just past the end of the runway when I make the turn.

 

[spiderweb]

Also, don't forget not to turn before clearing the threshold. That part didn't mean much to me until I started flying Skylanes solo in the Winter.

 

[Missa]

Unless otherwise directed by a control tower. Often hear at PTK 'make right traffice as soon as able for departing traffic'... aka turn with ~200/300 ft as soon as you get it.