Psychiatric history, but none recent

U

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This is a major thing im worried about. Ive had a lotnof psych. Hospitalizations, but most from when i was a kid. I also still have in my record that i have bipolar/depression, however, under my doctors supervision, ive been able to stop taking medication aside from a sleep aid, and since moving out, ive improved greatly, to the point im not sure id still meet the requirements for a bipolar diagnosis.
So my question is this: is it still possible for me to be a pilot? Could i still get a first class? And just how much medical history regarding hospitalizations does the FAA need?
 
I am pretty sure you can't get a first class medical. At best perhaps a third class but I would also think that a diagnosis of Bi-Polar Disorder would be disqualifying. Wait for Dr. Bruce to chime in for a definitive answer but I would not spend a dime on training until you get the answer. From Bruce or another AME acting as a consultant.
 
I would have someone carefully review the medical records from your youth. If you have a qualified diagnosis of bipolar disored, you should know that the underlying thought procesing never changes over a whole life. Four successive Federal Air surgeons have agreed that if a qualified diagnosis is made, that pilot cannot be certified, e.g, WILL BE DENIED. If there is any doubt in the medical record (the behavioral items i the DSM diagnosis list), then another (negative) assessment can be made (which essentially says, the first assessment was INCORRECT), by a board certified psychiatrist, and if scholarly, and well supported, might carry the day.

The proper path that remains, provided you did not apply for certification and get denied, is Sport Pilot. Once you have applied and been denied, you no longer have this option.

Adam Z is correct, but you also will be unable to get a Second nor a Thrid Class medical.

Please also note that all of the SSRIs in the FAS publication of 04/05/2010, are meds that generally speaking, if given to a true bipolar, they usually have a psychotic event shortly thereafter. In the community it's an "unintended provocative test".
 
When you say "someone" to review my records... who? A psychiatrist? An AME who I can make an appointment to see because he's a qualified doctor (ie, NOT for the purpose of getting a medical)?

Most of the problems stemmed from living with my parents... since moving out, I've been able to support myself, I even survived losing a job, and the month+ it took me to find employment again. (and a few months after that and I'm happily sitting here employed by an airline and possessing my own health insurance. I think I've managed pretty well for someone who's still planning to -start- college next year).

Are you saying that if a credible psychologist can basically say "this is no longer a problem" (or maybe more accurately to what you said "the previous diagonsis is incorrect", I may still have a chance? Should ask the doctor I see now, or find another one (like getting a second opinion?)

Isn't the definition of bipolar disorder something like "periods of depression followed by periods of mania, recurring..." over some set span of time (like months, or years), and it's one type of bipolar if the depressive part lasts longer than the manic part, or is followed by only a "mild mania" (not to the extreme the that depression is), and the other type is if they're about 50/50?
Honestly I don't think either of those have described me for a very long time.

...I don't think I've ever had a "psychotic event." I'm allergic to a certain class of medication (anti-psychotics, but again, see above), but in the retrospect of any decent psychiatrist I've talked with, there was no real reason for me to have been on those medications anyway, other than when in the hospital, they have to toss SOMETHING down your throat to fulfill the "treatment" obligation for insurance purposes (apperently just being there doesn't count as treatment). x_X It wasn't a psychotic episode, though, it was more like my throat and tongue swelling to the point I can't breathe. Having to go to ER only to find out benadryl counteracts it... not fun.

This is the first medical I'll have applied for... so at least I have that going for me? If that counts as a "going for you" thing to have little idea coming into this. (though I did poke at AOPA's TurboMedical thing).
Speaking of AOPA, I know there's a number I can call with medical questions, but that's not something the FAA's going to find out about, is it? I don't want to end up denied for asking a question in the wrong place.

Since I've yet to hear it mentioned, does a diagnosis of Asperger's ("by history" I think is the actual wording) have any bearing?

....so many of these problems seem to be from the past... the vast majority of it before I even turned 18. Does the FAA really need to know why I was in the hospital when I was something like 7? -I- didn't even know why I was there at that age!

The other thing I've been afraid to mention for fear of the answer... but might as well, I'm anon right now anyway...
One, and only one, of those hospitalizations was for a suicide attempt. The weird part was, in the documentation for that hospitalization, it never once mentions that. I've read it myself. The only mention is in the local paper's police blotter. Additionally, I didn't suffer any physical (or neurological) damage from it... so for all intents and purposes, hospital paperwork included, it never happened. I need to go over my other records since then and see if it's ever mentioned, but... I know properly I need to report it, but if I can confirm there's no mention of it in any of my records, should I still mention it? ("yes, this happened, but there's no actual proof it did other than a non-specific blurb in the police blotter of our local newspaper where I lived at the time")
I'm afraid if I don't mention it (and assuming I'm otherwise cleared for a medical), it'll come back to bite me. x_X
I'm not going to hold anyone here to what they say about the matter.

On brighter note, the last time I saw my psychiatrist, he did mention he sees several other pilots. I don't know what their diagnoses or certificates are, but... it makes me feel a little better to know that anyway.

Thanks for the input so far. I hope I can still find a way to (legitimately) do this.
 
Unregistered said:
When you say "someone" to review my records... who? A psychiatrist? An AME ?

I'm not going to hold anyone here to what they say about the matter.

Thanks for the input so far. I hope I can still find a way to (legitimately) do this.
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An AME does the review. It will get reviewed by the folks at the FAA. Any expert evaluation and assessment would be done by psychiatrists.. NOT a psychologist. The distinction is important.

Getting down to the nut cutting... IF you are bi-polar.. you are bi-polar. Period.

Its a life long condition. It can be managed, and it can be medicated. Even if you are med free, the underlying mood disorder (neurotransmitter imbalance) remains, and the concerns associated with such airmen are valid.

It can be made worse by environment, such as you claim regarding living at home, but that's not the cause. Changing environment may help, but it's not a cure.

Mania is associated with risk taking and dangerous behavior. Depression is associated with suicidal behaviors. These are the extreme examples, if course, but the problem is when a patient goes into crisis they don't see it as such, and the risk of untreated psychosis is real. They won't take that risk on an airline pilot/1st class medical.

If you had a valid diagnosis at the time, its going to be a very hard bell to un-ring...
 
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OP, I think Bruce is saying that you need a Psychiatrist not a Psychologist to say that you are not Bi-Polar and have never been Bi-Polar not that you are no longer Bi-Polar, as that is an illness that does not get cured.

Doc is right don't apply for a medical until you get all your ducks in a row as if you do and get denied you can't then fly sport pilot.

I'm gonna make a recommendation here. Your situation is pretty complex and I think its the type of situation where you really need an AME on your side guiding you and telling you what you need and from whom before you even call to schedule an aviation medical. Not all AMEs are equal in what they can do. I'd think the average AME is going to see your disclosures and deny. Its best to go in loaded with all the info you need. This consultant AME should also be able to tell you if getting your medical is not likely to happen and that you should go toward another route.

If I were in your situation I would absolutely hire such an AME consultant. Who would I go to? Without a doubt I would retain Dr. Bruce who just posted above. Bruce has done this for many other pilots. Bruce knows his stuff cold, I have no interest in Bruce getting the work, hes not my family and hes not my best friend he's just the best at what he does. If your interested I suggest you PM Bruce and he can tell you how to get the ball rolling and what the costs may be.

I wish you much luck!
 
To the Orignal Poster, I too think you need a professional consultant to help you through the medical process. I also think there is none better to fulfill this role than Dr. Bruce (note, no affiliation here, just have read his advice to airman like you for a few years). He has a website that explains what he can do to help, and what the process will likely be:

http://home.comcast.net/~bbchien/site/?/home/
 
Anon,
Do NOT apply for a medical until you have consulted with Dr. Bruce or someone like him. It will take more than an anonymous posting. He will need to see ALL the records that the issuing AME would need to see. I can heartily recommend Dr. Bruce, but there are (a few) others out there too. Note, though, that you're not just looking for a generic AME for this, but for someone who really knows the system and will figure out how (or if) you can be certified legitimately. (BTW, I was glad to see that word in your OP.)
 
Ok, so Dr Bruce is highly recommended for this...
Somewhat surprised no other names have come up, though. Oh well, that's one more name than I had previously.
Sounds like he works to perserve at least the chance of sport pilot. Flying at all is better than being grounded.

I wasn't going to apply for a medical until I knew what to expect and could reasonably determine the outcome myself. Hence being here. Asking questions is still (mostly) free.

gprellwitz - I never expected to get this solved over an internet forum. =P

Doggtyred - if bi-polar is a lifelong thing, how can the symptoms of it taper off or even "disappear" (such as a psychiatrist or therapist no longer noting them)? Unless it was misdiagnosed? Not asking to question you, but just curious. It's something I'll need to discuss with someone like Dr. Bruce. (Now -I'm- actually curious what's going on here. If I'm supposed to still be bipolar, why aren't I?)

Aside from Dr. Bruce, does anyone have any other recommendations? I like to keep my options open...
 
Unregistered said:
Aside from Dr. Bruce, does anyone have any other recommendations? I like to keep my options open...
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Dr. Bruce is the very best. Anyone else would be a step down. You will get honest answers from him, and he is close enough to being an insider to the system that you can depend on his advice.

He does require absolute honesty in return. If you mess with him once, it is time to find a #2.

-Skip
 
depending on what part of the country you're in, there's an AME in Denver area that specializes in difficult medical certifications. However, he's not on any of the forums I hang out on, and don't know if he works remote cases. Dr. Bruce does, and I'll echo the sentiments shared above.
 
Doggtyred - if bi-polar is a lifelong thing, how can the symptoms of it taper off or even "disappear" (such as a psychiatrist or therapist no longer noting them)? Unless it was misdiagnosed? Not asking to question you, but just curious. It's something I'll need to discuss with someone like Dr. Bruce. (Now -I'm- actually curious what's going on here. If I'm supposed to still be bipolar, why aren't I?)
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You may have been misdiagnosed. You may be "in remission" or in a subclinical state. There is such a high level of pressure by parents and others to put labels on behavior nowadays.

And while psychologists are well trained and qualified for what they do, this is a psychiatric diagnosis that needs to be made by a psychiatrist (MD) in the context of getting your medical. (if you pursue that route)

As for who I am, I'm a registered nurse who works in critical care medicine. But we've got a few doctors who frequent the board including Doc Bruce.
 
Unregistered said:
Doggtyred - if bi-polar is a lifelong thing, how can the symptoms of it taper off or even "disappear" (such as a psychiatrist or therapist no longer noting them)? Unless it was misdiagnosed? Not asking to question you, but just curious. It's something I'll need to discuss with someone like Dr. Bruce. (Now -I'm- actually curious what's going on here. If I'm supposed to still be bipolar, why aren't I?)
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Symptoms can come and go, the condition never leaves. Please, please please don't ask me how I know this.
 
gkainz said:
depending on what part of the country you're in, there's an AME in Denver area that specializes in difficult medical certifications. However, he's not on any of the forums I hang out on, and don't know if he works remote cases. Dr. Bruce does, and I'll echo the sentiments shared above.
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Bob Miller from "Over the Airwaves" spoke highly of his AME in a recent AvWeb podcast. Of course, I disagree with many of his opinions, so I'm not sure that's a recommendation! :dunno: Anyway, you can contact him (contact info at http://www.bobmillerflighttraining.com/contact.html) to get the AME's name. Personally, I use Dr. Bruce.
 
gkainz said:
depending on what part of the country you're in, there's an AME in Denver area that specializes in difficult medical certifications. However, he's not on any of the forums I hang out on, and don't know if he works remote cases. Dr. Bruce does, and I'll echo the sentiments shared above.
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That's fine, I can travel.

Checking into Bruce. I'm still a bit put off that this is all online only, with a comcast-hosted website... especially since I'll need to send him private information and money.
Many, many years spent online have made me wary of private online dealings...
Sounds like he, or the AME in Denver, are the only two ways to have this checked into. I kindda don't have a choice in the matter.
At least those vouching for Bruce so far are long-active accounts, not newly-created alts.

Hope this all goes well...
 
A lot of those vouching for Dr. Bruce have personally met and worked with him. I have not, as I have my AME locally. But, he's been helping us on POA since it started, and AOPA forums long before that.

Trust me, he's the real deal. google "dr. bruce chien" for a bunch of corroborating links if you like - and then just contact him directly.
 
Unregistered said:
That's fine, I can travel.

Checking into Bruce. I'm still a bit put off that this is all online only, with a comcast-hosted website... especially since I'll need to send him private information and money.
Many, many years spent online have made me wary of private online dealings...
Sounds like he, or the AME in Denver, are the only two ways to have this checked into. I kindda don't have a choice in the matter.
At least those vouching for Bruce so far are long-active accounts, not newly-created alts.

Hope this all goes well...
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There's more than two doctors you can use. You COULD use ANY AME listed in the FAA database.

What these two doctors are, are folks that are being vouched for.

You came for advice. You've gotten advice. What you do with it is your call. If our suggestions raise red flags, you have the right to go to or use anyone you choose.

Dr Bruce Chien can't promise you that a medical will be issued. But he can find out if you are eligible and guide you in the steps needed, perhaps better than the average AME who does flight physicals on the side.

It's your call.
 
I understand your concern. If you do some googling on Bruce Chien, you'll soon find some other info from medical rating websites that should set your mind at ease.

Bruce is very much a real person and a tremendous advocate.
 
TMetzinger said:
I understand your concern. If you do some googling on Bruce Chien, you'll soon find some other info from medical rating websites that should set your mind at ease.

Bruce is very much a real person and a tremendous advocate.
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I recently sent an airline captain friend of mine to Dr. Bruce. I used to represent pilots as a union officer and I have met other folks who can do the job, but I have not sent anyone to them in years, only Bruce, including family members. If you want to contact me outside the forum please feel free.

http://www.arnoldfeldman.com

Arnold
 
There are a lot of AME's who do "difficult" certifications. FAA has recently "lightened up" on certain psych medication issues, though, and Chien had a lot of input into this process. His posts on such subjects, both here and on another board, are quite astute. For your case, he's likely your best bet. If online bothers you, Peoria is centrally located. :)
 
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bbchien said:
Please also note that all of the SSRIs in the FAS publication of 04/05/2010, are meds that generally speaking, if given to a true bipolar, they usually have a psychotic event shortly thereafter. In the community it's an "unintended provocative test".
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That is fascinating. I had no idea.

Not to thread-hijack from the OP, just floored by the reality and difficulty of that statement for millions of folk with bi-polar behaviors, and how little we seem to have accomplished to help people who live with it.
 
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