"Provisional" diagnosis of bipolar among other things.

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N/A

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Ok so I am completely aware that I have a very difficult medical situation and I beat myself up over my past every single day. I am currently an A&P machanic because I realize that my dream of once flying as a commercial pilot is crushed. However, I am still not willing to except this and I am in desperate need of some kind of hope to hold onto. I have been having a difficult time tracking down my records but once done I plan to start whatever process I need to.
So let's get to the problem; 6 years ago when I was completely on my own I decided to go see a counselor and pretty much made my own diagnosis as adhd in order to get some meds that I could make a quick buck off of. This went on for a year, I was never actually on the meds but I am assuming I'm going to have to act as if I was seeing as how that is clearly an illegal thing to do.
Fast forward 3 years; got really drunk one night and admitted myself into a nut house because I was feeling pretty down and depressed about where I was at in life (lost my home of 7 years and became homeless with no family to turn to). I was already in a&p school at the time because I was trying to put 3 years in between med usage. But once becoming homeless it was extremely difficult to keep up with so I took a break. Felt like a total failure in every aspect of life. Anyways, I truly felt depressed and while in the nut house I got very angry one night because they kept trying to force valume on me for alcohol withdraw with I clearly didn't need so they then put me on bipolar meds. When I got out I decided to continuing seeking help because I thought maybe I was actually depressed but for the next 3 months everytime I went to the doctor and told her the meds were not helping at all and I didn't like them she just kept upping the dosage until I just stopped taking everything and quit going. I recently got the sheet from that place and they have my diagnosis as bipolar ll disorder, provisional. Generalized anxiety disorder. Personal history of sexual abuse in childhood. Moderate cocaine stimulant use disorder. Servers alcohol use disorder. Adhd predominantly inattentive presentation. Vitamin d deficiency.
That paper was the most devastating thing i have ever seen. I had hopes before this paper because the counselor or prescribing doctor said I was 100 percent not bipolar at one point and well I was hoping to see a diagnosis of depression.
Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to make sure every medical detail was spoken of so I can gauge is there is any slight possibility for me to get past this and how to go about it.
 
I'm not a doctor or AME (and I have no idea what "provisional" means in this context), but from reading these forums over the years, I have gleaned that:

Generalized anxiety: if it's the only issue, possible to eventually get a medical, with lots of time and money and documentation that it's over or never existed.
ADHD: if it's the only issue, possible to eventually get a medical, with lots of time and money and documentation that it's over or never existed.
Substance abuse: if it's the only issue, possible to eventually get a medical, with lots of time and money and documentation that it's over forever.
Bipolar: not possible

You're talking about all four! Even if you can somehow document that just the bipolar part was a mistake, I don't see any scenario in which you can "get past" all of it with the FAA, taken together as one story (as it must be). The drug dealing, even if never caught or convicted, seals the deal IMO.
 
kath said:
I'm not a doctor or AME (and I have no idea what "provisional" means in this context), but from reading these forums over the years, I have gleaned
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A provisional diagnosis just means thats its not formal and more information is need to make an official diagnosis
 
I imagine others will chime in but in the long run the first thing is to get well and get these health issues straightened out.

Then you will need to get the help of a senior HIMS AME to deal with the medical issues for the FAA.

If the BPD diagnosis is in error, there might be a chance to straighten this out. But you will need to be in a HIMS program.

The FAA also considers 10 years of off meds and no events or problems as pretty good evidence one can fly safely.

Selling the meds is a serious crime but there is a statute of limitations on that. Might want to check with an attorney on that.

Also of note, most of the senior HIMS AMEs will not work with people that have been involved in falsification to the FAA in any way.

So I would suggest focus now on getting well, realizing there is a chance you can fly someday.

Best wishes in your recovery.
 
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Agree with above. Get help, get well, develop a life of good choices. Flying has been a very important part of my life, but there are basic things like health, relationships, earning a living, helping others that I am in position to help, that I would gladly give up flying for, and should. A diagnosis helps us understand and treat problems, but they are only opinions and rarely 100% accurate(especially psychiatric ones). We’re all screwed up in many ways, but we try to find helpful ways to cope and leave this world and people around us better off. Good luck, we’re all in this thing we call life together.
 
Eldorado said:
Agree with above. Get help, get well, develop a life of good choices. Flying has been a very important part of my life, but there are basic things like health, relationships, earning a living, helping others that I am in position to help, that I would gladly give up flying for, and should. A diagnosis helps us understand and treat problems, but they are only opinions and rarely 100% accurate(especially psychiatric ones). We’re all screwed up in many ways, but we try to find helpful ways to cope and leave this world and people around us better off. Good luck, we’re all in this thing we call life together.
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This was over 3 years ago now. I am now happily married with very stable income as an A&P. This is not my dream. I am asking how I can get to my dream, not asking for health advice.
 
N/A said:
This was over 3 years ago now. I am now happily married with very stable income as an A&P. This is not my dream. I am asking how I can get to my dream, not asking for health advice.
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Your chances of getting an FAA medical and achieving your dream of flying as a commercial pilot are remote, very expensive (tens of thousands), and time consuming (probably a decade or longer). At the end of it all, a denial may still result and that would lock you out of options such as Sport Pilot.

As far as the "how," if it can be done at all it begins by contacting an AME who is an expert in difficult cases ( @bbchien and @lbfjrmd are two top-notch AMEs who are forum members) and doing exactly as the AME says with no arguing, no BS, no omissions. If Dr. Bruce or Dr. Lou tells you it ain't happening, then it ain't happening and you'd best dream another dream.

And this doesn't even consider the odds of actually getting employment as a commercial pilot. Even if you somehow overcome the medical barriers, get training up through your commercial ticket, and log a bunch of hours, you might still never get hired. Employers will not look favorably upon your background any more than the FAA when comes to flying professionally.

If you just want to fly, you could consider options that don't require a medical such as light sport aircraft, ultralights, gliders, or motor gliders. BUT, think those options over very carefully and get some independent advice. Just because it would be legal does not necessarily mean it would be wise or safe. You've exhibited extremely poor decision making ability, and poor decisions in a plane can kill you and others.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but you appear to be seeking some frank advice.
 
Half Fast said:
Your chances of getting an FAA medical and achieving your dream of flying as a commercial pilot are remote, very expensive (tens of thousands), and time consuming (probably a decade or longer). At the end of it all, a denial may still result and that would lock you out of options such as Sport Pilot.

As far as the "how," if it can be done at all it begins by contacting an AME who is an expert in difficult cases ( @bbchien and @lbfjrmd are two top-notch AMEs who are forum members) and doing exactly as the AME says with no arguing, no BS, no omissions. If Dr. Bruce or Dr. Lou tells you it ain't happening, then it ain't happening and you'd best dream another dream.

And this doesn't even consider the odds of actually getting employment as a commercial pilot. Even if you somehow overcome the medical barriers, get training up through your commercial ticket, and log a bunch of hours, you might still never get hired. Employers will not look favorably upon your background any more than the FAA when comes to flying professionally.

If you just want to fly, you could consider options that don't require a medical such as light sport aircraft, ultralights, gliders, or motor gliders. BUT, think those options over very carefully and get some independent advice. Just because it would be legal does not necessarily mean it would be wise or safe. You've exhibited extremely poor decision making ability, and poor decisions in a plane can kill you and others.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but you appear to be seeking some frank advice.
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Think about this for a second. He is currently employed as an A&P.
 
Half Fast said:
Yeah, that worries me a bit.

OTOH, when I take my car to the shop I don't know that the guy working on my brakes isn't snorting coke.
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Yea, your right maybe I should just disappear off the earth because I did coke less then a handful of times during the hardest part of my life. It totally means that I'm not capable of being a human being. Much less capable of completing a rigiuris 30 hour a week trade school or obtaining my bachelors degree. But you're right, I'm useless because of some poor decision making skills. There's no way I could ever recover from that.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Yeah. Makes me wonder how much safer the world really is due to medical certification requirements.
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Yea exactly. All I have to do is lie on my application and bam I get my medical. Instead I am working my bum off trying to do the right thing even if it means spending thousands of dollars and tons of time. I am literally willing to do whatever it takes but here I am getting punched in the face over and over. You think that unsafe person flying is thinking about doing the right thing? You think my classmate that tried to put masking tape in an elongated bolt hole to hide his mistake is thinking about doing the tight thing?
 
N/A said:
Yea, your right maybe I should just disappear off the earth because I did coke less then a handful of times during the hardest part of my life. It totally means that I'm not capable of being a human being. Much less capable of completing a rigiuris 30 hour a week trade school or obtaining my bachelors degree. But you're right, I'm useless because of some poor decision making skills. There's no way I could ever recover from that.
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See, when you make arguments and sarcastic comments like that, you damage your own credibility. It makes people think that you really don’t get just how serious and difficult a situation you created for yourself.

No, your history doesn’t mean you can’t accomplish certain important things, and it doesn’t mean you can’t be a good person.

But it does mean that you might not be entirely trustworthy with critical responsibilities. You would have a difficult time getting a TS security clearance, for example, and would undergo extreme scrutiny. If you admit to your illegal drug use and drug sales, you will be prohibited from owning a firearm.

And the list goes on, with aviation being one more item you might have cut off for yourself.

You created your situation. You made your own decisions. No one held you down and stuffed coke up your nose, or poured booze down your throat. Decisions have consequences.

Check your attitude and accept responsibility.
 
N/A said:
Yea, your right maybe I should just disappear off the earth...
I am literally willing to do whatever it takes but here I am getting punched in the face over and over...
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No one said you are useless or not human or not deserving existence. The folks on this board can get snarky sometimes, but they have given you solid advice: this is a minefield, consult a knowledgeable AME before entering it, do not lie, and be prepared for an answer which is not the one you want to hear.

The FAA is not in the dream-fulfillment business. (Neither is NASA, or I'd have become an astronaut years ago!). They answer to the flying public. They do not care about the stable job you've held down, or the schools you've attended, or your marital status or that you've created a family, or how hard you're willing to work, or how much aviation means to you, or any of those things. They *do* care about mental health disorders, and drugs that affect brain function, and substance abuse and criminality. Whether the system is flawed is a discussion for another day, but it is the system we've got, the system @Half Fast and others are trying to explain to you without sugar-coating anything or giving false hope.

The FAA also cares about decision making skills and attitude, and so do AME's, and for what it's worth, as a pilot so do I. So when you show up for this AME consult, leave your hostility and defensiveness at the door.
 
Half Fast said:
You created your situation. You made your own decisions. No one held you down and stuffed coke up your nose, or poured booze down your throat. Decisions have consequences.

Check your attitude and accept responsibility.
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:yeahthat:

If you're not a troll ...
 
Daleandee said:
Troll?
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Could be... but there is a reason that the FAA won't certify bipolar disorder. Lack of insight is exactly a symptom of bipolar disorder, so I don't think the OP would be too unexpected for someone with bipolar disorder to post.
 
Most of the things you have in your history, except the bi-polar diagnosis, could possibly be overcome if they were in isolation. Even the stay in the “nut house”. But taken together, it’s a pattern, and that’s what will almost certainly result in denial.

You did illegal drugs but were never arrested. Might not have been a problem except it got into the medical records. You could disprove the ADHD diagnosis by testing except it was you that created that story for the purpose of getting drugs. Unlike all the other pseudo-ADHD cases on this board it wasn’t forced on you by teachers because you were bored in class. The FAA’s going to want to know how you came about that “mis”diagnosis and lying won’t cut it.

The alcohol abuse could be overcome through strict abstinence protocol through a HIMS program but you have a history of being uncooperative with those trying to help you. You became angry and probably combative when they attempted to treat your alcohol withdrawal - appropriately - with Valium. You claim you “clearly” didn’t need it without apparently knowing that alcohol withdrawal can result in seizures, so you checked yourself into the ward and then once there, didn’t accept the help they offered.

In my experience it’s very easy to get a wrong diagnosis into your record. So it’s possible you aren’t actually bi-polar, if they came up with that while you were withdrawing and they needed something for the insurance to justify whatever drugs they gave you to calm you down after refusing Valium. Same with the generalized anxiety disorder.

So I am sympathetic to your shock at seeing all that in your record. In my opinion (and this has been discussed on this board, I’m not the only one who thinks this) doctors shouldn’t put things in your record without clearly telling you they are doing so at the time of logging it. Many of us have wrong information in our records; mine says I have diabetes which I do not, my mother’s says she has “paralysis of the left arm” which she does not.

So part of your problem might be that one or more of these diagnoses aren’t valid but once in your record, they are facts as far as the FAA is concerned and you are in the position of having to disprove them. If I went for a medical today I would have to disprove my “diabetes”. For you, disproving generalized anxiety disorder and bipolar would be very expensive and difficult.

Even if you could do that, you’d still have the substance abuse to deal with. And then the depression which would have to be shown as a one time situational event, or uni-polar (for the SSRI special issuance pathway). Frankly, from your description, I don’t see that happening.

We are trying to tell you reality. You said that you are not willing to accept not flying as a commercial pilot. If you cannot accept this despite being told that it is against virtually impossible odds, that alone looks to me like bi-polar behavior. I’m familiar with it from someone close to me. There is a difference between dedication to a dream against large difficulties, and doggedly pursuing something that isn’t meant to be. In the latter case, you will wreck your current good situation by flushing thousands of dollars away and diverting all your energy to something that will never pay off. That’s classic bi-polar, I’ve seen it many times. The fix is to stay on your meds.

Having said that, I can NOT say that is what you’re doing, from an internet post. Just suggesting that it could be, from the information you give and your tone, which seems to be that you will not accept no for an answer.

Hopefully one of our resident AMEs will weigh in, whatever they say is what you should believe.
 
I have to strongly disagree with Brad, at least with respect to timing. Under NO circumstances should you discuss this with the FAA until you have consulted with a senior HIMS AME on the likelihood of success.

In terms of timing, actually, I think the issue to be addressed even before that is the possible criminal charges which could stem from illegally re-selling a controlled substance. Losing your freedom in a criminal action will make your troubles with FAA medical verification seem minor by comparison.

I would suggest discussing with a criminal attorney in your state the possible ramifications of those acts and what the statute of limitations is. You may be well advised to content yourself with working on other aspects of these issues until that time has elapsed and you are no longer exposed to criminal prosecution.

The FAA has no statute of limitations and will look into this anyway, but at least once the statute of limitations passes, you can’t be thrown in prison for it. Unless you try lying to the FAA about it, which is also a Federal felony.
 
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Brad Z said:
I would encourage you to reach out to the appropriate regional flight surgeon and seek their guidance on medical certification for your complex medical history.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/rfs/
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Sure, put the final nail in the coffin. There are things that have been disclosed here that aren't asked for in a medical application and won't be in medical records, but that would certainly doom this dream.

The best advice here has been to consult with a HIGHLY qualified AME (or two or three). Your hopes might be dashed, but at least not officially. If it's airline pilot or nothing (I.e., you don't care about flying Sport, etc.) and you have the $$$$, go ahead and apply.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I have to strongly disagree with Brad, at least with respect to timing. Under NO circumstances should you discuss this with the FAA until you have consulted with a senior HIMS AME on the likelihood of success.

In terms of timing, actually, I think the issue to be addressed even before that is the possible criminal charges which could stem from illegally re-selling a controlled substance. Losing your freedom in a criminal action will make your troubles with FAA medical verification seem minor by comparison.

I would suggest discussing with a criminal attorney in your state the possible ramifications of those acts and what the statute of limitations is. You may be well advised to content yourself with working on other aspects of these issues until that time has elapsed and you are no longer exposed to criminal prosecution.

The FAA has no statute of limitations and will look into this anyway, but at least once the statute of limitations passes, you can’t be thrown in prison for it. Unless you try lying to the FAA about it, which is also a Federal felony.
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I strongly disagree with Peter. if you have have legal issues, sure, talk to an attorney. It if you have medical issues, it doesn't matter whether you deal with an AME or an FAA doc--they're both working off of the same playbook.

Unless you're intentionally trying to hide your history (which WILL eventually come to light, likely well after tens--if not hundreds--of thousands of dollars have been invested in your career), there is no legitimate reason not to be able to have a open honest discussion regarding your medical history with a RFS (or their staff).

Remember, it's not just the FAA, your employer will conduct a detailed investigation of your history as well. You might as well deal with it now and figure out what needs to happen in order to get medically certificated and focus your life efforts on getting to that point. For you, the flying part will be easy.
 
Except now the FAA knows. If you dont consult with the FAA they have no advance knowledge prior to what you submit for your medical. Its like calling the ATF and asking them how to get out of being an arms dealer.
 
The other item to note about talking to the FAA is that they can refer to the Federal prosecutor for prosecution of any suspected illegal activity, including lying on the FAA medical form. And anything the OP says to them can be used against him in a court of law.

OTOH, a private consultation with an AME is protected by doctor-patient privilege. No such protection if you speak to an FAA RFS.

While the FAA has a new compliance philosophy, the OP would expose himself to greater legal risk by speaking with the RFS instead of an AME.

We don't really know the OP's full legal situation (and I would frankly not encourage him to discuss it on a public board, even anonymously since the records of the IP numbers used could be subpoenaed).

I am concerned from both a flight safety and legal repercussions for the OP point of view that he has stated he committed a crime (albeit a non-violent victimless one) and intended to lie about it in order to pass the medical.
 
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Brad Z said:
It if you have medical issues, it doesn't matter whether you deal with an AME or an FAA doc--they're both working off of the same playbook.
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So he should call up the RFS and tell him that he's got an ADHD diagnosis because he was a drug dealer? And the outcome will be the same as if he fills out the Medxpress honestly, admitting the ADHD diagnosis, and then jumps through the hoops to prove he doesn't have it? The RFS will ignore the fraud and drug dealing part (as an AME should)?
 
I would get help. Try documenting six months of absolute sobriety under the care of a board certified psychiatrist. When you are that close to any alcohol the Psychiatrist has great difficulty figuring out what is what.
 
Lindberg said:
So he should call up the RFS and tell him that he's got an ADHD diagnosis because he was a drug dealer? And the outcome will be the same as if he fills out the Medxpress honestly, admitting the ADHD diagnosis, and then jumps through the hoops to prove he doesn't have it? The RFS will ignore the fraud and drug dealing part (as an AME should)?
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Yes.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I would be concerned about risking my maintenance certificate if I told the FAA all of that hustle.
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I’m honestly surprised that someone could get certificated as an A&P with that history. There aren’t any medical questions for A&P certification that ask about drug/alcohol use/dependence or similar? I honestly don’t know. I wish the best for the OP. He’s got a tough road ahead. Certainly had a tough one behind him, and he got past that one.
 
I think if you go ahead with the idea of trying to get a medical it will only cost you vast amounts of money that may well result in you being entirely banned from flying.

Instead, don't get a medical and get a Sport Pilot Certificate, for which you only need a driver's license, so long as you haven't previously failed a medical.

Currently that will only let you fly two-seat LSAs, and it doesn't allow you to do any commercial work. However, in 2023 the new Sport Pilot / LSA rules are coming out, and it sounds like they plan to expand what you can do with a Sport Pilot Certificate considerably, so it may include things like flying 172s and Archers and carrying up to three other people. Also it sounds like various groups have asked for Sport Pilots to be allowed to partake of limited commercial activities, like pipeline inspection, banner towing etc. Who knows whether the FAA will allow it, but you might as well wait it out and see what is available to you in 30 months time.

If you try and get a medical now and fail, all those Sport Pilot options will be closed to you.
 
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