Pros and cons of the A36

Challenged

Challenged

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Challenged
I've become smitten lately with the A36, and while I've never been in one, it seems like it would be a great "last plane", that I could use for traveling with my wife, dog and future children. In addition, my parents are getting up in age, and I'm looking for something that they could conceivably get in and out of easily, as they've expressed interest in having me fly them on various trips.

The A36 would be quite an investment in aviation for me, and not one that I'm sure I can realistically justify, but it sure is fun to consider. I have been talking to a potential partner to ease the financial burden, but I currently am a single owner of a Beech Sierra, and I do enjoy single ownership a great deal.

For what it's worth, I've spent over 10 AMUs in maintenance/upgrades on my Sierra this year alone so I am generally aware of the considerable cost of ownership, but I guess I'm just looking for a consensus on the quality, reliability, potential gotchas, useful load etc... on the A36. I've browsed the Beechtalk forums for this a bit, but it's always nice to get a current perspective based on the current market.

In particular I'd be interested in hearing about items like:

Cost of engine overhaul if I purchased one with a high-time engine?
Engine types and performance/specific problems?
Fuel burn while flying locally for pleasure/training (majority of my flying)?
Possible to convert front facing configuration to club seating?
Air conditioning?

I probably wouldn't even consider getting rid of my Sierra, since it's just me or me and my wife flying 90% of the time, but where I live, there are no good rental options that I'm aware of to fill my 10% need. What's a pilot to do?
 
I'll tackle a couple of issues based on personal experience. Some of the seating configs can be switched between club and row, depending on model year. I had an older model that was row only, and my family of 4 preferred it to club because they flew facing forward and all the baggage was confined (but accessible) in the big baggage area behind row 2.

Some have factory air that is said to be adequate for most climates but suffers a bit in TX. The Keith (Meggett) system that was in my plane is truly amazing for the temp difference and volume of air produced. You can sit in the runup area with doors and window closed and be very comfortable.

I assume your plane has 2 doors. If so, you ain't gonna be liking the "scrunch and scoot" routine that the pilot must master in order to get in the seat.

Challenged said:
I've become smitten lately with the A36, and while I've never been in one, it seems like it would be a great "last plane", that I could use for traveling with my wife, dog and future children. In addition, my parents are getting up in age, and I'm looking for something that they could conceivably get in and out of easily, as they've expressed interest in having me fly them on various trips.

The A36 would be quite an investment in aviation for me, and not one that I'm sure I can realistically justify, but it sure is fun to consider. I have been talking to a potential partner to ease the financial burden, but I currently am a single owner of a Beech Sierra, and I do enjoy single ownership a great deal.

For what it's worth, I've spent over 10 AMUs in maintenance/upgrades on my Sierra this year alone so I am generally aware of the considerable cost of ownership, but I guess I'm just looking for a consensus on the quality, reliability, potential gotchas, useful load etc... on the A36. I've browsed the Beechtalk forums for this a bit, but it's always nice to get a current perspective based on the current market.

In particular I'd be interested in hearing about items like:

Cost of engine overhaul if I purchased one with a high-time engine?
Engine types and performance/specific problems?
Fuel burn while flying locally for pleasure/training (majority of my flying)?
Possible to convert front facing configuration to club seating?
Air conditioning?

I probably wouldn't even consider getting rid of my Sierra, since it's just me or me and my wife flying 90% of the time, but where I live, there are no good rental options that I'm aware of to fill my 10% need. What's a pilot to do?
Click to expand...
 
No data on operations (but can put you in touch with a 1968 A36 owner that will provide that). But one feature I can appreciate are the cargo doors on the right rear.
 
They are wonderful flying machines. Noteworthy for spendy parts (but what aren't these days?) Love the A36.
 
Great flying machines! Too costly to own and maintain for this home boy though.
 
I've only got about 10 hours in an A36 but I really liked it. Compared to all the other variety I've flown its one I'd like to own myself. Its not much of a toy for $100 burgers but if you want to get somewhere comfy and quick its a good one. The one I flew had the cargo doors and club seating as well as the copilot side door.

Frank
 
The IO-550 isn't cheap to overhaul 30K or so is my wild guess (don't all A36's have the IO550 in them?). Fuel burn is what you want to make of it, I'm guessing 15GPH or so if you pay attention to what you're doing. Going around in circles for fun is going to get expensive if you do a lot of it. Since I started feeding my IO-470, my day trips got a lot further to "make it count" I guess. The A36 would be my plane of choice if I had the funds to get one. Comfy, reasonably fast, built like a tank and cool. My hangar neighbor has a 2003 A36, I want one.

If I recall correctly, there's a company in Tennessee who might even be putting in the A/C systems in the new factory Beechcrafts that my be able to help you out if you get to that level.
 
It's a great plane. Now is a good time to buy. How is the avionics?
 
I flew a turbo normalized A-36 for five or six years and got about 900 hours in it before purchasing the P baron in '05. I'd be happy to answer any questions I can. Mine didn't have ac. Was an IO-550 with tip tanks. I liked the TN and tips for it's ability to go high and with range of about 1,000 NM on a standard day. Fuel burn was about 33 per hour in the climb and 16.5 in cruse. A bit different than the NA plane. I had about a 650 payload with full fuel.

Best,

Dave
 
Would be my choice if I needed a traveling machine for 3-6 people. The early ones are lightest and hence have the best useful load, but lots of folks prefer the extended baggage that was standard on slightly newer models. IO-550 is a big plus. Best owners association you can imagine. Agree with Wayne on seat rows...I would opt for all fwd facing. 3 partners would make it much more affordable. 160kts with 4 fat people, 16gph, or loaf around @ low power settings for sight seeing. Take the back seats out and carry alot of stuff. Great all around airplane - and priced accordingly. Beech talk and a ton of other info available...
 
If I had the time and knowledge to do so, I'd like to adapt and STC the Bo cowling system to all of the Cessna singles. Being able to open the entire lid and see everything inside is a huge advantage.

j1b3h0 said:
Would be my choice if I needed a traveling machine for 3-6 people. The early ones are lightest and hence have the best useful load, but lots of folks prefer the extended baggage that was standard on slightly newer models. IO-550 is a big plus. Best owners association you can imagine. Agree with Wayne on seat rows...I would opt for all fwd facing. 3 partners would make it much more affordable. 160kts with 4 fat people, 16gph, or loaf around @ low power settings for sight seeing. Take the back seats out and carry alot of stuff. Great all around airplane - and priced accordingly. Beech talk and a ton of other info available...
Click to expand...
 
I've had my '68 Bo 36 for about 15 months and 200 hours. We moved from a Glasair to the Bo and we love it, even though it burns twice the gas. Not all Bo's have a 550, most were delivered with 520's. Ours has tips and a TN 520. Like most planes, the 36 (and later A36/B36) got heavier as time went on. The older ones (68 was the first year) tend to have the most useful load; mine is 1468 and with the tips I have 110 gallons of 100LL which can give you up to 8 hours if you run LOP. Even ROP it's got longer legs than I typically like to do. I plan on 16gph in cruise at 160ktas below 12k' and 172ktas above 12k'.

The big doors are awesome and you'll never want to not have them once you get it. Ours is all forward facing and we took the back two seats out the day I brought it home. I've put my grandmother in it, but it wasn't easy. Getting up on the wing then sitting down that low (even just getting into the front seat) can be hard for older folks. You always have the option of putting the back seats back in, but they don't have the leg room that the front 4 do.

If most of your flying is training/sightseeing I honestly wouldn't recommend the 36. It's a lot of airplane for a single and it's not cheap to do a lot of takeoffs and climbouts, however it is great for traveling and it's rock solid in IMC.
 
If I didn't have "neeed" of a twin, I'd be in a TN A36. TN B36 if I could justify it....
 
how does it compare to the Saratoga? Just curious, as I'm starting to look at both the A36's and Saratoga's. 5 people in the family, thus 4 seaters are out.
 
wabower said:
If I had the time and knowledge to do so, I'd like to adapt and STC the Bo cowling system to all of the Cessna singles. Being able to open the entire lid and see everything inside is a huge advantage.
Click to expand...

Cessna doesn't want pilots to see engines...notice how, with each passing year/model, the cowling dipstick access gets smaller? It's similar to the Airbus 'Pilots can't be trusted' theory. Beech has it right.
 
From a build quality and fit-and-finish standpoint, there's no comparison. Think Rolex and Timex. Park them side-by-side and compare all of the elements that are important to you.

jmp470 said:
how does it compare to the Saratoga? Just curious, as I'm starting to look at both the A36's and Saratoga's. 5 people in the family, thus 4 seaters are out.
Click to expand...
 
jmp470 said:
how does it compare to the Saratoga? Just curious, as I'm starting to look at both the A36's and Saratoga's. 5 people in the family, thus 4 seaters are out.
Click to expand...

The Piper is roomier, but slower and doesn't fly as nice. It's very utilitarian, though. I used to fly a Lance - the 'hershey bar winged' version of the Saratoga. Used to stuff it so full of mailbags you could barely get the double doors to shut. Plus it had that handy nose luggage compartment. Much simpler/better fuel system than the Cherokee 6 (which I never liked). The straight tail version I flew was a 135kt machine @ 65%. I would avoid the T tail, and the 'fellatio cowling'. Good airplane...but once you actually fly the Bonanza, well...kind of a Mercedes/Chevrolet comparison.
 
I'd recommend heading over to the American Bonanza Society at www.bonanza.org and look at the ABS Ambassador program. Also check out the other resources under "Buying a Beechcraft"
Test fly a Beechcraft with the ABS Ambassador program.
The first time you fly a Bonanza, Debonair, Baron or Travel Air, you’ll be hooked. You’ll know Beechcraft is the airplane brand for you! If you’re a serious prospective airplane owner with a current pilot certificate and medical, you can arrange to test-fly a Beechcraft through the ABS Ambassador Program. You’ll get a front-seat experience that will convince you that a Bonanza, Debonair, Baron or Travel Air is the right choice for you. Your Ambassador will decide how long or short the orientation flight will be, who covers what costs, and all other details of the flight.
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If you have club seating you can take out the aft seats and insert a padded play pit for Mile High rides to make some $$$ using the 25SM rule.
 
www.beechtalk.com

It's free to sign up and full of good information. It's also one of the best sources for GA travel information. It's worth joining just for this.

John
 
jonnyjetprop said:
www.beechtalk.com

It's free to sign up and full of good information. It's also one of the best sources for GA travel information. It's worth joining just for this.
Click to expand...
+1.

Also, get a copy of Flying The Beech Bonanza by John C. Eckalbar. It's a thorough review of performance, handling characteristics, weight and balance issues and other need-to-know items for all versions of Bonanzas.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I flew a turbo normalized A-36 for five or six years and got about 900 hours in it before purchasing the P baron in '05. I'd be happy to answer any questions I can. Mine didn't have ac. Was an IO-550 with tip tanks. I liked the TN and tips for it's ability to go high and with range of about 1,000 NM on a standard day. Fuel burn was about 33 per hour in the climb and 16.5 in cruse. A bit different than the NA plane. I had about a 650 payload with full fuel.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...
I have optimized my Comanche Pa24-260 LoPresti GTO over the past 16 years - Great performance for a normally aspirated Comanche - down low 175+ KTAS @ 16 gph, and at 11,500 msl 163 KTAS @ 11.3 gph. But, for more comfort (built in O2, Cargo doors, AC) and speed, I am looking to upgrade to a Bonanza A36 or F33 IO550 and strongly considering the TornadoAlley TN upgrade. Can anybody with TN experience give me the straight scoop about maintaining a Turbo'd Bonanza? What is the down side to owning and operating a TN IO550 Bonanza? Different operating procedures, and cost. My only Turbo experience is 50 hrs in a T210.
Tom W.
 
N7IFR said:
I have optimized my Comanche Pa24-260 LoPresti GTO over the past 16 years - Great performance for a normally aspirated Comanche - down low 175+ KTAS @ 16 gph, and at 11,500 msl 163 KTAS @ 11.3 gph. But, for more comfort (built in O2, Cargo doors, AC) and speed, I am looking to upgrade to a Bonanza A36 or F33 IO550 and strongly considering the TornadoAlley TN upgrade. Can anybody with TN experience give me the straight scoop about maintaining a Turbo'd Bonanza? What is the down side to owning and operating a TN IO550 Bonanza? Different operating procedures, and cost. My only Turbo experience is 50 hrs in a T210.
Tom W.
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---> www.beechtalk.com
 
jmp470 said:
how does it compare to the Saratoga? Just curious, as I'm starting to look at both the A36's and Saratoga's. 5 people in the family, thus 4 seaters are out.
Click to expand...

I own a fixed gear normally aspirated Saratoga. It's super stable and a easy to fly. The wife and 3 kids fit in it just like they do the other suburban we own. I average 145 knots at 65% power (ROP / 15.5 gph) or 140 knots 65% power (LOP 13.5gph). I am familiar with A36's and to own one would have cost me double (or more) in acquisition costs and probably double in ongoing maintenance. A36's have excellent ramp appeal and go a little faster with a little less useful. My pockets are not nearly deep enough to even think about an A36.

I find the people that have flown in my Saratoga absolutely love it.
 
I fly a Bo and you will find it very versatile, easy to work on, parts everywhere, good mechanics all over the place, one heck of a knowledgeable flying community, and a great x-country plane.

As mentioned, head to Beechtalk.com.
 
Flown A36 and Lance. Lance has better W&B I think because of cargo bin in the nose IMO.

Both fun to fly and land. Just get one of each!
 
Henning said:
If you have club seating you can take out the aft seats and insert a padded play pit for Mile High rides to make some $$$ using the 25SM rule.
Click to expand...

What is the 25SM rule?
 
To buy a A36 well equipped, low time, aren't you into a Cessna Citation 500 price range ?
 
Cavorter said:
What is the 25SM rule?
Click to expand...

A way for a commercial pilot to make money with his or her aircraft....:rolleyes:

----------------------------------------------------

PART 119—CERTIFICATION: AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS
Subpart A—General

(e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, this part does not apply to—

(1) Student instruction;

(2) Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under §91.147 of this chapter. For nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in accordance with part 136, subpart B of this chapter, National Parks Air Tour Management, the requirements of part 119 of this chapter apply unless excepted in §136.37(g)(2). For Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of SFAR 50-2, part 93, subpart U, and part 119 of this chapter, as applicable, apply.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?pitd=20160829&node=se14.1.119_11&rgn=div8

Cheers,
Brian
 
Since the original post is now 4+ years old..... @Challenged what did you end up doing?

Inquiring minds want to know... ;)

Cheers,
Brian
 
I kept the Sierra, but I'll admit that I still look online at the A36 from time to time.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 
Well, you did better than I did. I made the mistake of flying a Bonanza and letting my wife sit in the back of one....4 months later we owned one. Good thing I didn't test drive a Baron....:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Brian
 
flight2000 said:
Well, you did better than I did. I made the mistake of flying a Bonanza and letting my wife sit in the back of one....4 months later we owned one. Good thing I didn't test drive a Baron....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I have resolved to never allow my wife to set foot in a King Air or Citation.
 
weilke said:
I have resolved to never allow my wife to set foot in a King Air or Citation.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with a well placed hand grenade to get that aircraft upgrade you always wanted...lol! :D

Might need to hit the lottery first before I throw her into a KA, but I can dream.... ;)
 
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