Proper terminology for approaches?

[CC268]

Hey guys,

I am a new pilot with 9 hours so far. I operate out of a Class D airport...

So when heading back to the airport from the practice area I will call up tower and say something like this:

Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D is at Pinnacle Peak at 4500, inbound for full stop (or touch and goes or whatever it is I want to do) with information Mike.

However, I seem to hear a lot of people say something like "visual for 21" or something like that instead of "inbound for full stop".

So is there a proper way to do this? Is my method alright or should I start using this "visual" method?

 

[EdFred]

Visual (most likely) means they are on an IFR flight plan and been cleared for the visual approach by TRACON.

When I get handed off to tower I will sometimes let them know which approach I am on.

Keep doing what you're doing. but you can shorten it up...
Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D, Pinnacle Peak 4500, full stop, with Mike.

 

[jordane93]

"Visual for 21" is a visual approach used by IFR guys.

 

[CC268]

Visual (most likely) means they are on an IFR flight plan and been cleared for the visual approach by TRACON.

When I get handed off to tower I will sometimes let them know which approach I am on.

Keep doing what you're doing. but you can shorten it up...
Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D, Pinnacle Peak 4500, full stop, with Mike.

Oh cool I like that shortened up version!

Thanks for the help!

 

[CC268]

"Visual for 21" is a visual approach used by IFR guys.

I gotcha! Thanks

 

[frfly172]

Cessna 123 ,10 miles south,inbound for landing,information mike.

 

[EdFred]

Cessna 123 ,10 miles south,inbound for landing,information mike.

I don't like using "for" or "to" in any of my transmissions lest they be confused with "four" (fower - dumb way to say it) or "two".

 

[Shawn]

Cessna 123 ,10 miles south,inbound for landing,information mike.

Who you are calling, who you are, where you are, what you want.

"Scottsdale Tower, Cessna XY123 (always use FULL call sign on initial contact), Student Pilot, Pinnacle Peak 4500, full stop, with information Mike"

 

[EdFred]

Who you are calling, who you are, where you are, what you want.

"Scottsdale Tower, Cessna XY123 (always use FULL call sign on initial contact), Student Pilot, Pinnacle Peak 4500, full stop, with information Mike"

Sure that's not information echo?

 

[AggieMike88]

At KDTO (where 6PC, JCranford, myself, and a few others are) there is no ATIS, just an ASOS, so the routine for VFR landing is

"Denton Tower, Skylane Fife-Fife-Whiskey-Bravo 9 miles (insert cardinal direction or over a known reporting point), inbound landing with weather & notams"​

We used to say say "...with the numbers", but something changed not long ago and they prefer "...with weather & notams". Otherwise they read the current information to you, tieing up the frequency.

And that's been happening with Regional Approach too. A "Regional Approach, Skylane 55WB, level 4500, I have weather/notams at Denton" gets a "Roger, thank you" from the controller, where "...with the numbers at Denton" gets the controller reading the full bullet.

And because KDTO is a very active training field, Tower is happiest when our first call up provides them ample time to sequence into the pattern without kicking students into super long "...continue downwind and I'll call your base (after you pass into the next county)"

 

[Shawn]

Sure that's not information echo?

I'm sure that we can repeat this over another 20-30 posts!

...I was more tying to just clarify frfly172's post of "Cessna 123" on initial call up. Yeah, a technicality but it is a student pilot asking about proper procedure.

..."With Information MIKE Mike mike mike...

 

[AggieMike88]

..."With Information MIKE Mike mike mike...

I didn't give you no info!

And 20-30 posts is nothing.... keep in mind, Ed has this real devious side. Just keep count of the empty bottles of Hard Lemonade by his camp chair.

 

[EdFred]

I'm sure that we can repeat this over another 20-30 posts!

...I was more tying to just clarify frfly172's post of "Cessna 123" on initial call up. Yeah, a technicality but it is a student pilot asking about proper procedure.

..."With Information MIKE Mike mike mike...

But if someone only has a 3 character tail number then that would be the correct call up.
Someone on the board here has a 4 digit tail and they get requeried "FULL tail number" by ATC after initial call ups and have to respond with "That IS the FULL tail number."
If I repaint my plane I might see if there are any 3 digit tail numbers left, although I doubt there are.

 

[Palmpilot]

I don't like using "for" or "to" in any of my transmissions lest they be confused with "four" (fower - dumb way to say it) or "two".

Are you concerned that they might think he wants to make four landings?

 

[AggieMike88]

If I repaint my plane I might see if there are any 3 digit tail numbers left, although I doubt there are.

Well, if you want "Ed Fred" as the apha part, a search of available numbers 1-99 turned up these as available

15EF 31EF 32EF 36EF 38EF 39EF 40EF 41EF 43EF 47EF
52EF 53EF 63EF 65EF 67EF 68EF 82EF 83EF 84EF 91EF
93EF 94EF 95EF 96EF 97EF 98EF 99EF

 

[Palmpilot]

...We used to say say "...with the numbers", but something changed not long ago and they prefer "...with weather & notams". Otherwise they read the current information to you, tieing up the frequency...

I found this in the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

"HAVE NUMBERS− Used by pilots to inform ATC that they have received runway, wind, and altimeter information only."​

 

[AggieMike88]

I found this in the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

"HAVE NUMBERS− Used by pilots to inform ATC that they have received runway, wind, and altimeter information only."​

Not disputing that. But with the increasing query by the local controllers "...do you have weather and notams for _____?", I figure using "weather and notams" phrasing just simplfies evyerthing.

 

[EdFred]

Are you concerned that they might think he wants to make four landings?

"Climbing to four thousand"

Is that climbing TO four thousand or climbing TWO four thousand.
Same with four.
(Yes, I know 24000 should be FL240)
But, eliminate them as they are extraneous anyway and you never have to worry about confusion.

 

[EdFred]

Well, if you want "Ed Fred" as the apha part, a search of available numbers 1-99 turned up these as available

15EF 31EF 32EF 36EF 38EF 39EF 40EF 41EF 43EF 47EF
52EF 53EF 63EF 65EF 67EF 68EF 82EF 83EF 84EF 91EF
93EF 94EF 95EF 96EF 97EF 98EF 99EF

I was thinking of ending in QX and being lazy...

 

[Everskyward]

Well, if you want "Ed Fred" as the apha part, a search of available numbers 1-99 turned up these as available

15EF 31EF 32EF 36EF 38EF 39EF 40EF 41EF 43EF 47EF
52EF 53EF 63EF 65EF 67EF 68EF 82EF 83EF 84EF 91EF
93EF 94EF 95EF 96EF 97EF 98EF 99EF

I might have problems counting, but I think those are 4 digit numbers. I flew an airplane with a 3 digit number and occasionally got the "is that the whole number?" question.

 

[EdFred]

I might have problems counting, but I think those are 4 digit numbers. I flew an airplane with a 3 digit number and occasionally got the "is that the whole number?" question.

1-9 are probably already taken.

 

[vkhosid]

Visual (most likely) means they are on an IFR flight plan and been cleared for the visual approach by TRACON.

When I get handed off to tower I will sometimes let them know which approach I am on.

Keep doing what you're doing. but you can shorten it up...
Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D, Pinnacle Peak 4500, full stop, with Mike.

He prefers Michael...

Personally, I fly with Beauregard.

 

[Palmpilot]

"Climbing to four thousand"

Is that climbing TO four thousand or climbing TWO four thousand.
Same with four.
(Yes, I know 24000 should be FL240)
But, eliminate them as they are extraneous anyway and you never have to worry about confusion.

As you acknowledged, under the AIM system of terminology, there is no such altitude as two four thousand. The AIM recommends saying "to," so I do it, and ATC has never expressed confusion over it.

 

[EdFred]

I never never used the useless term "information" when talking to tower/approach, they know it's whichever ATIS info.

 

[EdFred]

As you acknowledged, under the AIM system of terminology, there is no such altitude as two four thousand. The AIM recommends saying "to," so I do it, and ATC has never expressed confusion over it.

And if the AIM suggested you fly off a bridge...

The AIM also suggests turning your back to the airport when you should be looking for other planes, so forgive me if I don't think the AIM was written by Jesus.

 

[Palmpilot]

Not disputing that.

I didn't think you were.

But with the increasing query by the local controllers "...do you have weather and notams for _____?", I figure using "weather and notams" phrasing just simplfies evyerthing.

Since notams are not among "runway, wind, and altimeter information," the P/CG passage I quoted might help explain why controllers there don't consider "with the numbers" to be sufficient.

 

[Palmpilot]

And if the AIM suggested you fly off a bridge...

I'm not against deviating from AIM recommendations when there's a reason to, but so far, no one has come up with an example where there is an actual danger of confusion, and certainly nothing comparable to flying off a bridge.

The AIM also suggests turning your back to the airport when you should be looking for other planes, so forgive me if I don't think the AIM was written by Jesus.

That's a valid reason for using a different procedure. Assuming that ATC is going to confuse "to four thousand" with "flight level two four zero" is not. (Both IMO, of course.)

I don't object to other people leaving out "to," but for my own operations, I don't see the need.

 

[wilkersk]

Oh cool I like that shortened up version!

Thanks for the help!

Just to be clear here: An IFR aircraft contacting tower by stating " x miles NE on the visual 21" has already been cleared into the ATA by virtue of being on an IFR flight plan and being handed-off to tower by approach control. As a VFR aircraft, you still must contact tower the way you've been taught.

 

[AggieMike88]

1-9 are probably already taken.

correct

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not disputing that. But with the increasing query by the local controllers "...do you have weather and notams for _____?", I figure using "weather and notams" phrasing just simplfies evyerthing.

It does. These days "With the numbers" is pretty much for Class D that doesn't have an ATIS. It tells the Tower you have been paying attention and have heard it listening to other communications.

 

[mscard88]

I was thinking of ending in QX and being lazy...

Already being used by Horizon Airlines.

 

[Timbeck2]

I think a few of you guys are getting wrapped around the axle on these things. You want to say you have "information Mike" instead of just Mike? Fine as long as you have it. Controllers don't care. "Climbing to four thousand" or "three thousand for four thousand" ....we get it. A Cessna 172 will not climb to twenty-four thousand.

We get it either way. Just don't read us a story or tell us your life's history and we'll ALL be fine.

 

[mscard88]

I think a few of you guys are getting wrapped around the axle on these things. You want to say you have "information Mike" instead of just Mike? Fine as long as you have it. Controllers don't care. "Climbing to four thousand" or "three thousand for four thousand" ....we get it. A Cessna 172 will not climb to twenty-four thousand.

We get it either way. Just don't read us a story or tell us your life' s history and we'll ALL be fine.

Uh huh that's right.

5 more pages I bet...

 

[denverpilot]

..."With Information MIKE Mike mike mike...

"With huuuump day weather!"

 

[AggieMike88]

 

[luvflyin]

This is the first I've heard of "weather & notams". How new is it? Controllers?, is there a new change that requires ensuring pilots have them?

 

[MAKG1]

This is the first I've heard of "weather & notams". How new is it? Controllers?, is there a new change that requires ensuring pilots have them?

It's the first I've heard of a towered airport being happy with "the numbers." I don't see too many without ATIS these days.

 

[EdFred]

It's the first I've heard of a towered airport being happy with "the numbers." I don't see too many without ATIS these days.

I think I've only flown into one. I don't recall where it was, but it was somewhat recent, and I remember I kept looking at all the charts and plates wondering where the heck ATIS was.

 

[Kritchlow]

"The numbers".... IMO this one belongs in the other thread about annoying phraseology.

Unless it's information Whiskey.... "The Booze News" is just fine.

 

[AggieMike88]

"Information Bubba" at KAFW (which is near the NASCAR track).

Alliance Information Bubba, recorded when the big hand was on the twelve and the little hand is on the three, in the afternoon.
Temporary Flight Restrictions in effect due to the NASCAR race. Y'all stay well east of the grandstand as the folks attending the race may be drinking and may be packing.
The winds are from Laredo at, oh, about as fast as you and your new girlfriend can run from the bar if somone was chasing you to get his wife back.
Sky's clear 'cept fer all the smoke from the parking area... What the hell are all those people doing out there in their RV's?
IFR Arrivals expect the visual runway to the south is in use, makes it an easy straight in for you Okies. Everybody from South Texas is already here.
All arrives in them skinny white be-izz-ness jets coming here for bizzness make sure to stay well WELL away from the grandstand as you look like waterfowl that is in season right now.
Put two n-eye-ner point six into the little window on the thing that tells you how high up you are, and make sure to tell us when you first talk to us you have Information Bubba.

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