Prop Strikes and Values

Tony_Scarpelli said:
So how long does this take in mechanic hours to perform on a Lycoming 540?
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That depends upon what aircraft the 540 is in.. a mooney,, can't be done in the aircraft.

on a 0-320-H2AD it is faster to remove the engine in its entirety and stand it up on a build stand and do the accessory case removal. and then put it back on the aircraft.

the major part of the question not asked above is simply this. How did the damage to the prop happen, all prop damage is not a quick stop/prop strike.

Some times it is not known how the damage occurred, it is simply found by a pilot, and no one will admit what happened.

is that a prop strike?
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Tom is right, I misunderstood the tear down degree required by a reduction in RPM.
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The problem of that statement in the AD is, no one ever sees the RPM reduction. because the RPM indication is fleeting and seldom in the pilots view as the scat is hitting the fan.

IOWs their attention is elsewhere.
 
Tom-D said:
That depends upon what aircraft the 540 is in.. a mooney,, can't be done in the aircraft.

on a 0-320-H2AD it is faster to remove the engine in its entirety and stand it up on a build stand and do the accessory case removal. and then put it back on the aircraft.

the major part of the question not asked above is simply this. How did the damage to the prop happen, all prop damage is not a quick stop/prop strike.

Some times it is not known how the damage occurred, it is simply found by a pilot, and no one will admit what happened.

is that a prop strike?
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Well if it is a Lycoming and the prop is sufficiently damaged the AD applies, no matter how it happened.

Now if the tip got bent by a tool box rolling into it I might be less likely to want the full tear down I'd like to see if we had a full blown sudden stoppage.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I never responded to your post, my response was to correct the assumption of hitting grass would require the SB to come into play unless there was a rpm drop.
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Have you ever asked a pilot with grass stains on the prop if they saw a reduction in RPM?

If they are in grass heavy enough and high enough to cause a reduction in RPM their attention is not on the Tach.

They are probably thinking about the soft and squishy feeling in their pants.
 
Skylane81E said:
Well if it is a Lycoming and the prop is sufficiently damaged the AD applies, no matter how it happened.
Really, I saw an A&P get frustrated and hit a prop with a big double cut mill bastard, that sent the prop to the prop shop and did not require the AD compliance.
Now if the tip got bent by a tool box rolling into it I might be less likely to want the full tear down I'd like to see if we had a full blown sudden stoppage.
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that does fall in the description of the damage that requires the AD kick in.
 
Did it need more than "minor dressing?"

If so per 04-10-14 it was a propeller strike.
 
Skylane81E said:
Did it need more than "minor dressing?"

If so per 04-10-14 it was a propeller strike.
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No, but it would have been below mim blade profile after blending.

Many Sea plane props get water erosion bad enough to get replaced with out meeting the ad requirements also.
 
Many land plane props do to, I've pulled a couple off 172s undersized.

Whole nother can of worms vs a bent prop though.
 
At OSH they're watching the follow-me scooter and hoping like hell there's nothing lurking in the grass that obviously hadn't been mowed for a while prior to the arrival of a certain C-340 just a few weeks ago. The guys in back are puckered and watching too.


Tom-D said:
Have you ever asked a pilot with grass stains on the prop if they saw a reduction in RPM?

If they are in grass heavy enough and high enough to cause a reduction in RPM their attention is not on the Tach.

They are probably thinking about the soft and squishy feeling in their pants.
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Lets say someone attempted to start the engine with the tow bar still attached. no more than 1/2 revolution, relatively slow revolution upon attempted start and the prop struck the tow bar. Leaves a nick small enough to dress.

Does this warrant a further look?

Tom-D said:
That depends upon what aircraft the 540 is in.. a mooney,, can't be done in the aircraft.

on a 0-320-H2AD it is faster to remove the engine in its entirety and stand it up on a build stand and do the accessory case removal. and then put it back on the aircraft.

the major part of the question not asked above is simply this. How did the damage to the prop happen, all prop damage is not a quick stop/prop strike.

Some times it is not known how the damage occurred, it is simply found by a pilot, and no one will admit what happened.

is that a prop strike?
Click to expand...
 
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but my primary concern in a prop strike is the reduction in aircraft value. It isn't about the tear down and inspection, it's about the $50K a newer aircraft will lose with the words prop strike in the ad. If that ever happened to me I would really consider just replacing the engine with a factory reman unless I was SURE I intended to keep it for many more years.

I'm just not that sure about much these days, so probably a new engine for me.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Lets say someone attempted to start the engine with the tow bar still attached. no more than 1/2 revolution, relatively slow revolution upon attempted start and the prop struck the tow bar. Leaves a nick small enough to dress.

Does this warrant a further look?
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Lycoming, it is a toss up.
TCM …. No, dress it out and go fly.
 
Just how many engine falures have something to do with a prop strike that might have happened in the past? If you are woried about engine falure most seem to be running out of gas, Water in fuel, problems with the fuel system some with valve falure, cylinder falure, and running out of oil. If I had to wonder if someone covered up a prop strike or just did a quick repair IAW the prop strike AD I would probably not buy the Plane.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Well if the guy prop stuck a trike, god knows all the other abuse that was laid down on that airframe. It takes a special type of pilot to smack the prop on a trike.
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Not really. I've seen a prop strike due to a pothole in the ramp, and plenty of other such things that don't relate to smashdown landings.
 
I was looking at a couple planes and found another with a prop strike but the engine was completely over hauled so that doesn't sound too bad. It's a Bellanca Super Viking. What are the thoughts on that just out of curiosity? It's 300HP, about 180kts @ 12GPH. I'd prefer the Mooney but I saw this and was curious.
 
LevelWing said:
I was looking at a couple planes and found another with a prop strike but the engine was completely over hauled so that doesn't sound too bad. It's a Bellanca Super Viking. What are the thoughts on that just out of curiosity? It's 300HP, about 180kts @ 12GPH. I'd prefer the Mooney but I saw this and was curious.
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Are you WORTHY of a Bellanca?

The Mooney is to Bellanca what an Audi is to a Mercedes.
 
[QUOTE=It's 300HP, about 180kts @ 12GPH.
More like 16GPH
 
I can fit in a Viking with another 6' 300 lb pilot next to me without being in pain. So its a bit bigger than a mooney.

They fly very nicely, little hot rods.
 
I looked at 2 Mooney's and a Super Viking this weekend. I think I'm going to pass on the Super Viking mainly because I'm not HP endorsed (not that it would be that hard to get) and I'm sure the insurance would be really high even if I were so it'd be low time. Out of the 2 Mooney's I saw I liked one of them. It's a 1967 M20F with less than half on the engine time. The owner has all the logs back to the original and he keeps it hangared and it just went through annual pretty recently. He's asking around $45k for it and from what research I've done so far it seems to be a somewhat reasonable price. He did say he's willing to negotiate on the price as well. Assuming I put it through a pre-buy is there anything specific I should look for? The prop hub AD has been complied. It has manual gear. I've been reading the Mooney Space website as well as other sites I just wasn't sure if there was something specific I should be looking for based on experience of Mooney owners here.
 
LevelWing said:
I looked at 2 Mooney's and a Super Viking this weekend. I think I'm going to pass on the Super Viking mainly because I'm not HP endorsed (not that it would be that hard to get) and I'm sure the insurance would be really high even if I were so it'd be low time. Out of the 2 Mooney's I saw I liked one of them. It's a 1967 M20F with less than half on the engine time. The owner has all the logs back to the original and he keeps it hangared and it just went through annual pretty recently. He's asking around $45k for it and from what research I've done so far it seems to be a somewhat reasonable price. He did say he's willing to negotiate on the price as well. Assuming I put it through a pre-buy is there anything specific I should look for? The prop hub AD has been complied. It has manual gear. I've been reading the Mooney Space website as well as other sites I just wasn't sure if there was something specific I should be looking for based on experience of Mooney owners here.
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When you go to look at it again, open the cowl, and imagine what it takes in time and effort to remove a mag.

read the MM on the aircraft and see how many special tools it requires to do a gear swing.

You will pay almost double the Labor costs for maintaining a Mooney.
 
Tom-D said:
When you go to look at it again, open the cowl, and imagine what it takes in time and effort to remove a mag.

read the MM on the aircraft and see how many special tools it requires to do a gear swing.

You will pay almost double the Labor costs for maintaining a Mooney.
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Tom-D said:
Today when I got the aircraft hangar,(9:00) it was already on jacks and open for inspection, I inspected the wheel bearings and then the owner put them back together while I inspected the airframe, and then we swung the gear, that about the simplest gear swing I've ever done, no hydraulics to mess with, no electrics, just a big handle.

Up - Down, Up - Down, works great, off jacks.

Did the compression check, (all high 70s) while the owner replaced all the open panels, every thing was good there, no filter to check, just a screen, so that was a easy do.

The right fuel tank shows a stain, that was a worry to me until the owner broke out the Mooney M/M and showed where the manual allows a stain and what the criteria was for allowable leaks.

So by 14:30 we were pretty much done, the aircraft was serviced, and opened by the owner, So all had to do was the inspection.

Paper work in order, So 1 more mooney ready to go fly.
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:dunno: :rolleyes2:
 
RotorAndWing said:
:nonod: :rolleyes2:





Contradiction. :rolleyes2:
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You think so, try doing a mooney gear swing alone, by the book, provide all the special tools, make all the measurements.

the one you referred to was an easy do because it was an owner assisted annual. He did all the muscle, I did the measurements, had he not been there I would have had to hire the muscle which would double the price.

Do you believe every post here must tell every detail just to satisfy you?
 
Tom-D said:
You think so, try doing a mooney gear swing alone, by the book, provide all the special tools, make all the measurements.

the one you referred to was an easy do because it was an owner assisted annual. He did all the muscle, I did the measurements, had he not been there I would have had to hire the muscle which would double the price.

Do you believe every post here must tell every detail just to satisfy you?
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No, just believable.

In one post you brag about how simple the gear swing in a Mooney was and then in another post you are foreboding with "read the MM on the aircraft and see how many special tools it requires to do a gear swing".
 
I figured a Mooney would be more expensive to maintain than a Cherokee because of the retractable gear but I figured that would be somewhat mitigated if it has manual gear. The other thing I'm factoring in is the fact that for the same price a lot of people seem to be asking for Cherokee's I can get a Mooney, which will help build complex time and is a much faster airplane.
 
RotorAndWing said:
No, just believable.

In one post you brag about how simple the gear swing in a Mooney was and then in another post you are foreboding with "read the MM on the aircraft and see how many special tools it requires to do a gear swing".
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When you understand the difference between working/repairing/one and inspecting it, get back with us and tell us how it's done.
 
Tom-D said:
When you go to look at it again, open the cowl, and imagine what it takes in time and effort to remove a mag.

read the MM on the aircraft and see how many special tools it requires to do a gear swing.

You will pay almost double the Labor costs for maintaining a Mooney.
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We've found the Mooney to be very reasonable. Yes, we did put the typical 10% into her the first few years after we bought, but most owners do. After that, pretty smooth sailing. Our A&P charges $1200 for a no squawk annual.

We did have to rebuild the autopilot servos this summer, but these are King units that were 30+ years old.
 
LevelWing said:
I figured a Mooney would be more expensive to maintain than a Cherokee because of the retractable gear but I figured that would be somewhat mitigated if it has manual gear. The other thing I'm factoring in is the fact that for the same price a lot of people seem to be asking for Cherokee's I can get a Mooney, which will help build complex time and is a much faster airplane.
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Outside the engine compartment the mooney is pretty simple, the manual gear doesn't need a hydraulic power supply to operate on the ground, but the parts wear out just like any other gear. The fuel tanks require sealing from time to time.

Every aircraft has their problem areas, the mooney is no exception. You can't make any aircraft smooth sleek and fast and still have plenty of room to work on stuff.
 
LevelWing said:
I was looking at a couple planes and found another with a prop strike but the engine was completely over hauled so that doesn't sound too bad. It's a Bellanca Super Viking. What are the thoughts on that just out of curiosity? It's 300HP, about 180kts @ 12GPH. I'd prefer the Mooney but I saw this and was curious.
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Those three numbers and that airplane do not go together.
 
Tom-D said:
Outside the engine compartment the mooney is pretty simple, the manual gear doesn't need a hydraulic power supply to operate on the ground, but the parts wear out just like any other gear. The fuel tanks require sealing from time to time.

Every aircraft has their problem areas, the mooney is no exception. You can't make any aircraft smooth sleek and fast and still have plenty of room to work on stuff.
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I've been reading Mooney Space and it seems like a lot of people frequently have a lot of major work that needs to be done on their Mooney's and that's what I want to avoid (as does everyone). I think it would be a great time builder for both time and retract time as well as IFR training but not if I'm spending $10k every month (which I couldn't afford).
 
LevelWing said:
I've been reading Mooney Space and it seems like a lot of people frequently have a lot of major work that needs to be done on their Mooney's and that's what I want to avoid (as does everyone). I think it would be a great time builder for both time and retract time as well as IFR training but not if I'm spending $10k every month (which I couldn't afford).
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Well, you have four choices. Buy a new plane, buy a plane that has recently had all the work done to it, buy a cheap plane and hope you don't run into expensive repairs, don't buy a plane. It doesn't really matter which make or model you choose, any of them can need $10,000 tomorrow, only on a new plane with a warranty is it someone else's problem.
 
LevelWing said:
I've been reading Mooney Space and it seems like a lot of people frequently have a lot of major work that needs to be done on their Mooney's and that's what I want to avoid (as does everyone). I think it would be a great time builder for both time and retract time as well as IFR training but not if I'm spending $10k every month (which I couldn't afford).
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The same can be said of any type.

In a year of Mooney caretaking, the only Mooney-related maintenance I've had to do is some tightening up of the nose gear. Most of the stuff that's needed work has been made by King, Continental, Whelen, etc. And after getting a good look at the guts of the plane during the annual, I can say that Mooney builds one helluva stout airframe - Despite being nearly 17 years old, the control system, landing gear, etc. was as shiny and tight as new. I was quite impressed.
 
Tom-D said:
When you understand the difference between working/repairing/one and inspecting it, get back with us and tell us how it's done.
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:rolleyes2:


Tom Clancy - "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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