Prop de-ice boots

N801BH said:
Well................

Seing how I built it from scratch, engineered the entire powerplant /forewall forward systems, wired the entire plane, built my panel, engineered and installed one of a kind flight control systems, completed the ENTIRE project to make it airworthy during a 3000 hour build process. Test flew it for the first time instead of hiring a test pilot. Tested , confirmed and generated the POH for this plane... And I currently have over 400 hours and 60,000 miles on it, I think I can comfortably say .................................

I am QUALIFIED to do anything I want to it..........:yes:;).

And more questions sir...:dunno:
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Did you build or buy the prop?
 
skidoo said:
Is any A&P that says he can do the job qualified to do so. Or, is there specialized training beyond A&P and or special equipment necessary?

My local A&P says he can't do it and should be done at a prop shop. I have another service shop who has an A&P who say he has done several before including on some twins. He says it is no problem, just takes about a day of labor. One great thing about this shop is they allow me to be there for everything. So, I know exactly what is done to the aircraft. Does this sound good, or should I be searching for a specialized prop shop, which could be far, far away?
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It's a straight forward procedure that if done with care will have a minimal result on balance, however I would recommend you take the opportunity to dynamically balance the props.
 
Henning said:
It's a straight forward procedure that if done with care will have a minimal result on balance, however I would recommend you take the opportunity to dynamically balance the props.
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I respectfully disagree....

I have balanced my set up maybe 15 times so far and I am usually around the hangar when the shop is balancing a prop so my guess is I witnessed 45 or so balancing jobs.... You would be amazed how 1-2 grams here or there will effect the outcome ... There is NO way each boot weighs the same, there is NO way a mechanic can place the new one in the exact same spot as where the old one was... There are way too many variables conspiring to throw the blade out of balance. IMHO.
 
N801BH said:
I respectfully disagree....

I have balanced my set up maybe 15 times so far and I am usually around the hangar when the shop is balancing a prop so my guess is I witnessed 45 or so balancing jobs.... You would be amazed how 1-2 grams here or there will effect the outcome ... There is NO way each boot weighs the same, there is NO way a mechanic can place the new one in the exact same spot as where the old one was... There are way too many variables conspiring to throw the blade out of balance. IMHO.
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You be surprised how close the weight is between them, as for placement, I can make that exact; but I have no argument with a dynamic balance, it will make it smoother regardless if it was bad enough to make it fall off.
 
N801BH said:
I respectfully disagree....

I have balanced my set up maybe 15 times so far and I am usually around the hangar when the shop is balancing a prop so my guess is I witnessed 45 or so balancing jobs.... You would be amazed how 1-2 grams here or there will effect the outcome ... There is NO way each boot weighs the same, there is NO way a mechanic can place the new one in the exact same spot as where the old one was... There are way too many variables conspiring to throw the blade out of balance. IMHO.
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The question then becomes whether or not it makes a difference in real life as far as reliability goes. My guess is that there is one, but it's one of those things that takes a long time to notice, and there are other factors that will offset the balance of the prop just as much if not more.
 
I wouldn't feel uncomfortable letting the shop with the experience do your replacement.

Some of the replacement prop boots are all over the place on weight. The other critical part of the installation is that the boot needs do be installed at the same blade station as the old boot. I always recommend a dynamic balance after single or multiple prop boot replacements. I had to change one on the Malibu back in June. It looked like the FBO ran something into it. The replacement boot was very close to the same weight too.
 
Douglas,

We have a 2008 Cessna T182T G1000 aircraft that has had the same problem. All three prop boots have failed at the same time. Twice. The owner bought the plane a couple years back and doesn't know if they where good or bad when he got it. We checked the OHMS on the boots and they where out of limits(so they are bad) We checked the timer, brushes, ring, and wiring and no problems there. We replaced the boots and about one month later they failed again. We sent out the timer to be sure it was good and it is. All of the rest of the system looks good. With this system you have to bypass the timer to get power to the boots when not running the engine to feel heat coming from the boots. This second set are out of limits too(OHMS). Did you ever figure out what the problem was. We are holding off on replacing the boots till we figure this one out.:dunno::mad2:
 
I'm thinking follow the maintenance manual for maintenance, but maybe that just isn't simple enough?
 
Warhawk said:
Douglas,

We have a 2008 Cessna T182T G1000 aircraft that has had the same problem. All three prop boots have failed at the same time. Twice. The owner bought the plane a couple years back and doesn't know if they where good or bad when he got it. We checked the OHMS on the boots and they where out of limits(so they are bad) We checked the timer, brushes, ring, and wiring and no problems there. We replaced the boots and about one month later they failed again. We sent out the timer to be sure it was good and it is. All of the rest of the system looks good. With this system you have to bypass the timer to get power to the boots when not running the engine to feel heat coming from the boots. This second set are out of limits too(OHMS). Did you ever figure out what the problem was. We are holding off on replacing the boots till we figure this one out.:dunno::mad2:
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OP here.. I did have the boots replaced. I figured that at some time when it was new to me, I must have switched the prop heat on when the engine was not running and not knowing enough about the system, they must have burned out in short order.

I am hoping that was actually the case, because now I know better. I will never feel the heat from the boots because, from now on, I will never allow them to be ON long enough to feel heat when the engine is not running. They need cooling, and I believe that since they were designed to operate in potential icing conditions, then operating in other than with cold airflow may result in insufficient cooling.
 
To CAucker: When the blades become unbalanced and the entire wing is shaking (or in a single you can't even read the instruments) because of ice, the prop boots are a GOOD thing to have.....
 
Tom, I personally would not replace prop boots without additional training but...


I am wondering what part of FAR43 makes replacing a boot a major repair?

Also,
§65.95 Inspection authorization: Privileges and limitations.
(a) The holder of an inspection authorization may—

(1) Inspect and approve for return to service any aircraft or related part or appliance (except any aircraft maintained in accordance with a continuous airworthiness program under part 121 of this chapter) after a major repair or major alteration to it in accordance with part 43 [New] of this chapter, if the work was done in accordance with technical data approved by the Administrator; and


It would appear that if I had the data (and all the equipment required to follow the instructions contained therein) that a major repair would be legal with an IA.

Again this is all for my education as. I don't screw with props other than the standard minor repairs of dressing and such.
 
skidoo said:
OP here.. I did have the boots replaced. I figured that at some time when it was new to me, I must have switched the prop heat on when the engine was not running and not knowing enough about the system, they must have burned out in short order.

I am hoping that was actually the case, because now I know better. I will never feel the heat from the boots because, from now on, I will never allow them to be ON long enough to feel heat when the engine is not running. They need cooling, and I believe that since they were designed to operate in potential icing conditions, then operating in other than with cold airflow may result in insufficient cooling.
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Your IA should be checking them IAW the MM at each annual. The only plane that I take care of with hot props is a Navajo but it states to turn on the deice and feel each section of the boot to check for proper operation and sequence.
 
Having operated a fair share of Cessna's with hot props. I've come to two conclusions: they break a lot and they are worth fixing. Most of the problems I've seen are related to the brushes just wearing out. Given the other icing thread I will just say that, if by some freak of nature you ended up in a little ice, the hot prop helps a lot. The fat Cessna wing carries ice pretty well if you have the power to keep it flying.
 
Warhawk said:
Douglas,

We have a 2008 Cessna T182T G1000 aircraft that has had the same problem. All three prop boots have failed at the same time. Twice. The owner bought the plane a couple years back and doesn't know if they where good or bad when he got it. We checked the OHMS on the boots and they where out of limits(so they are bad) We checked the timer, brushes, ring, and wiring and no problems there. We replaced the boots and about one month later they failed again. We sent out the timer to be sure it was good and it is. All of the rest of the system looks good. With this system you have to bypass the timer to get power to the boots when not running the engine to feel heat coming from the boots. This second set are out of limits too(OHMS). Did you ever figure out what the problem was. We are holding off on replacing the boots till we figure this one out.:dunno::mad2:
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It went into annual in December, and they figured out what the problem was, and now I forget. I'll call him in the AM and find out. I did not fix it at the time because if I remember correctly the repair was going to require the props to be removed and new prop "boots" placed. COme to think of it I think they were burnt out. My annual was bad enough, as my PFD crapped out and it took two weeks to get that taken care of so I was not interested in taking care of the prop heat at that time. I having a feeling this is more of a bad design than anything else.
 
Skylane81E said:
Tom, I personally would not replace prop boots without additional training but...


I am wondering what part of FAR43 makes replacing a boot a major repair?
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Replacement of the prop boots is not some thing that can be done by any A&P, unless they work in a CRS/for props.

It is normal maintenance, not a modification. so no 337.

BUT….
65.81 General privileges and limitations.
(a) A certificated mechanic may perform or supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance or alteration of an aircraft or appliance, or a part thereof, for which he is rated (but excluding major repairs to, and major alterations of, propellers, and any repair to, or alteration of, instruments), and may perform additional duties in accordance with §§ 65.85, 65.87, and 65.95.

all maintenance to propellers other than the ICAs are a major repair to be completed in the CRS.

From AC 20-37E
200. REQUIREMENTS FOR MAINTENANCE AND OVERHAUL.
a. Sources of Propeller Repair Information. Airworthiness Directives (AD), type certificate (TC) data sheets, manufacturers’ manuals, service letters, and bulletins specify methods and limits for propeller maintenance, inspection, repair, and removal from service. When a manufacturer’s data specifies that major repairs are permitted to a specific model blade or other propeller component, only an appropriately rated repair facility may accomplish those repairs. An FAA-certificated mechanic with at least a powerplant rating can accomplish all other propeller maintenance and minor repair by using the practices and techniques specified by this advisory circular (AC) and in the propeller manufacturer’s service data. Some maintenance and minor repairs in this category are the removal of minor nicks, scratches, small areas of surface corrosion, painting, and minor deicer boot repairs. Because of the complexity of propeller damage and because damage tends to be hidden or not obvious to untrained maintenance personnel, we recommend that propeller damage be referred to experienced repair personnel whenever doubt exists regarding a condition that has been observed. We further recommend that owners/operators follow the manufacturer’s maintenance and overhaul program.
 
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