Proficiency Q's

Dave Arata

Dave Arata

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
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321
Location
Bend, OR
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Display name:
Dave
I'm 6 weeks post successful instrument check ride. I went up last night with a safety pilot to shoot a few approaches as I haven't done one since earning the rating. I made a few mistakes that I caught fairly quickly and errored on the side of safety. For example, forgetting for about a minute that I could descend once inbound on a VOR-A, forgetting to twist the VOR 10 degrees after a small course change for about the same duration. I found myself more rusty than anticipated and have been told that instrument flying is a perishable skill if not used regularly. So, I pose to thee, how often do you practice approaches? Do you do so in VFR conditions w/o a safety pilot (practice approach), even though you cannot log them? Practice them with a safety pilot (simulated approach)? What's your standard mode of operation to stay proficient?
 
Most of my flying is solo - or non rated in the other seat. But if VFR I will still fly an approach once in a while, even if I'm not under the hood, just for procedure. I log actual ones when actual, and then always do 6 with a safety pilot to keep current. Some pilots need to do more than that to remain proficient. Some don't.
 
I echo this statement. Most of my flying is solo - or non rated in the other seat. But if VFR I will still fly an approach once in a while, just for procedure. I log actual ones when actual.

I'm fortunate that, being based in San Diego, I get plenty of opportunity for actual.

No idea where you're located. I presume IMC is rare for you, else you'd have been up already?
 
IMC is pretty rare during the summer months (Bend, OR). However, when those conditions do present themselves, they usually include ice and my little C-150 is no bueno for that type of flying. During my instrument training, I had .2 in actual and picked up ice immediately. Not a dangerous amount, but it was enough to enforce the point that those conditions are not to be played with.
The pain in the neck is the valley very often has fantastic IMC conditions. However, I'd have to fly over the mountains. Single engine+IFR+mountains=I'm probably not going. :)
 
Agreed, I think it'll be lots of VFR practice approaches and a few with a safety pilot for currency.
 
I fly with a safety pilot or an approved device. And of course in actual if it is available. With the errors you noticed, I would also fly some eyes wide open to get more used to briefing and following procedures.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I fly with a safety pilot or an approved device. And of course in actual if it is available. With the errors you noticed, I would also fly some eyes wide open to get more used to briefing and following procedures.
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Sound advice. I'm going to plan on more VFR practice approaches on my own. Any cross country flights post check ride have been under IFR, but it's the lack of proficiency that is causing the small mental errors on the approaches.
 
Don't have too many pilot friends so struggle to find a safety pilot unless i pay a CFI (which of course i will if i deem myself no longer proficient). But yes i absolutely recommend shooting approaches in VFR even if you don't have a safety pilot. Honestly sometimes harder since you still have to keep an eye out for traffic but really has helped me stay proficient with the procedures. File IFR even on a CAVU day and ask to shoot an approach at the end. Its a shame you cant get much actual time but if there is ever a chance (and you are proficient!!!!) try to get in actual. Please dont do that if you feel unsafe at all though, and i would start with a point to point before going up in IMC for the first time and trying to do multiple practice approaches. Good luck!
 
Once I got my IR everywhere I go I file and typically will fly the approach. Even if I can't log it it keeps you "in the system" and in practice. Personally I would be *very* rusty if I didn't do any kind of IR for 6 weeks
 
MauleSkinner said:
I suggest building a relationship with a good CFII and getting an IPC once a year, whether you feel you’re proficient or not.
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This is important, your skillset can still erode if you pick up bad habits along the way or only ever "stay current" with your buddy VFR pilot in the right seat.. the IPC provides that extra challenge and they're supposed to do some groundwork too
 
Rgbeard said:
You'd think safety pilots would be easier to find, wouldn't you?
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It takes a little effort but it's worth it. I met a guy in a non-aviation situation and discovered he was also a pilot. We ended up being close friends and had a standing appointment to fly once a month after work to do a couple of approaches and have dinner. Lasted for years until I moved away.

If one goes the safety pilot route remember it's not just about flying the same approach you know like the back of your hand over and over. Toss in something different once in a while. Maybe even a partial panel approach periodically.
 
Dave Arata said:
Sound advice. I'm going to plan on more VFR practice approaches on my own. Any cross country flights post check ride have been under IFR, but it's the lack of proficiency that is causing the small mental errors on the approaches.
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I should mention I also get an IPC annually. Not sure how I forgot that - it's tomorrow!
 
For starters, File IFR for every trip you make. This will help you stay comfortable with playing "in the system" and managing the cockpit "knobology" so that you are not so task-saturated when flying IMC. Even when it is severe clear and you are filed IFR, you have to maintain IFR flight standards for altitude and course. Second, use your IFR skills at every opportunity, especially in MVFR weather. IFR flight is wonderful for climbing through a broken or overcast layer to get on top. Fly approaches in VFR conditions. You will benefit from learning how to carry out the basic operations, even if you can see out the window. If you can go up on a MVFR day and file IFR for practice, even better! If you are the least bit uncomfortable with your skills fly with an CFII and get and early IPC. If you don't fly a lot of IFR, you will probably be doing these every 6 months anyway, so buy a few more months.

Everyone is going to have momentary lapses if they haven't performed a task in a while. Some additional practice and experience will help remediate those lapses. Remember you have been adequately trained to use your IFR skills. Don't be afraid to use them!

Fortunately, here in Central NY (the "rickets belt") we have annoying clouds year-round, thanks to Lake Ontario. A typical trip out of central NY involves climbing through a low cloud deck with 4000-7000 foot tops and flying away in the sunshine on top or between layers. :) The clouds often disappear as soon as you get away from the Great Lakes. Unfortunately, in the winter months (Nov-Mar) these clouds are frequently prodigious ice machines. :(
 
Surprised no one has mentioned night approaches but, having never lived in PNW, I have no idea how late it stays light up there.
 
TCABM said:
Surprised no one has mentioned night approaches but, having never lived in PNW, I have no idea how late it stays light up there.
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Good idea. Night flight is a good way to get IMC-like conditions in VFR weather. Just be careful flying night approaches at unfamiliar airports. Thoroughly brief on procedures and be aware of terrain clearance issues. Use PAPIs/VASIs to assure terrain clearance beyond MDA, and pay attention to ODPs. I've done night approaches for practice, but it's really hard to find dark in the summertime at a reasonable hour with sunsets around 845PM.
 
Night flight is a fantastic idea! Didn't really even cross my mind. When filing IFR for practice approaches, do you simply ask for multiple approaches into a single destination? I've done some researching, but there doesn't appear to be an standard method of doing so.
 
I generally don't file IFR for practice approaches. Just keep letting the controller know my next intentions after the current approach I am on.
 
How about in actual? Say you had a really great overcast day to practice in and had to file. Round Robin flight plan? Departure and Destination airport being the same w/specific nav fixes?
 
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Tantalum said:
Once I got my IR everywhere I go I file and typically will fly the approach. Even if I can't log it it keeps you "in the system" and in practice. Personally I would be *very* rusty if I didn't do any kind of IR for 6 weeks
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I was hesitant to use "rusty". :)
 
My hangar neighbor never lands without asking for a practice instrument approach at every single destination, as well as our home field. He tries to fly weekly too. (I’m not instrument rated.)
 
Dave Arata said:
How about in actual? Say you had a really great overcast day to practice in and had to file. Round Robin flight plan? Departure and Destination airport being the same w/specific nav fixes?
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That's how I would probably do it. Maybe not all of them, but the IAF for each of the fixes...

Of course if you are flying to the same airport over and over I'd probably call approach, ask what they want to see in the system and file that.
 
Dave Arata said:
How about in actual? Say you had a really great overcast day to practice in and had to file. Round Robin flight plan? Departure and Destination airport being the same w/specific nav fixes?
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I do a round robin flight plan using the airports and whatever routing I want between then. "IFR proficiency flight" in the remarks. I don't file IAFs, but I don't do that in real flights either.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I suggest building a relationship with a good CFII and getting an IPC once a year, whether you feel you’re proficient or not.
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Came here to find this or post it.

First couple of years with the Instrument ticket it’s good to go through a full IPC with a good CFII to fix any bad habits that are creeping in. Make it formal and do an IPC or three before using the 6 month currency rule.

Of course you can still do both, whatever you like. But toss an IPC in there and find someone you trust CFII or very experienced pilot to ride along and seek out IMC if it’s rare where you live.

Get the ticket wet, as they say. :)
 
midlifeflyer said:
I do a round robin flight plan using the airports and whatever routing I want between then. "IFR proficiency flight" in the remarks. I don't file IAFs, but I don't do that in real flights either.
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We’ve learned via that other mostly-controllers group on FB that a number of the facilities don’t see your comments at all unless they go looking for it or print a second strip.

It’s worth asking the tower folks near the home ‘drome what they get with a phone call, or during a tower tour.

Just mentioning it for completeness since so many over there said “we see nothing...”. :)
 
denverpilot said:
We’ve learned via that other mostly-controllers group on FB that a number of the facilities don’t see your comments at all unless they go looking for it or print a second strip.

It’s worth asking the tower folks near the home ‘drome what they get with a phone call, or during a tower tour.

Just mentioning it for completeness since so many over there said “we see nothing...”. :)
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I always make sure they are the very first words in the comment so they show up if they do see it. Aside from that, I'd bet the departure and destination being the same is a big clue. In any event, TRACON''s first words to me on those flights indicated they knew the purpose of the flight.
 
I teach at a college now training pilots and I suggest this for all of my student since it has been effective for me and most IFR students and pilots I know.

Before I tell you the secret keep in mind that nothing replaces regular real practice.

Here’s the cheap secret. PC flight sim.

Most of IFR work is procedural thus knowledge based. The rest is muscle memory flying the airplane. For example holding. What some people find as difficult is not really hard at all as far as flying the plane. How hard is it to fly level? How hard is it to make turns? How hard is it to track a course?

What makes it difficult for some (for somebody it may be flying a glideslope) is “knowing” procedurally what to do and when AND ahead of the airplane. That is mental practice not physical practice.

And that is where a good flight sim can help you stay mentally sharp and practiced. This ground sim work directly translates to actual flying proficiency. I use it regularly. Even MS flight sim can work for this. I recommend Mindstar.

Tex
 
Dave S. said:
I teach at a college now training pilots and I suggest this for all of my student since it has been effective for me and most IFR students and pilots I know.

Before I tell you the secret keep in mind that nothing replaces regular real practice.

Here’s the cheap secret. PC flight sim.

Most of IFR work is procedural thus knowledge based. The rest is muscle memory flying the airplane. For example holding. What some people find as difficult is not really hard at all as far as flying the plane. How hard is it to fly level? How hard is it to make turns? How hard is it to track a course?

What makes it difficult for some (for somebody it may be flying a glideslope) is “knowing” procedurally what to do and when AND ahead of the airplane. That is mental practice not physical practice.

And that is where a good flight sim can help you stay mentally sharp and practiced. This ground sim work directly translates to actual flying proficiency. I use it regularly. Even MS flight sim can work for this. I recommend Mindstar.

Tex
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I agree that a PC sim is a useful supplement for non-loggable proficiency practice. I use X-Plane and sometimes MSFX for that purpose. I find that spending the extra money for a joystick that uses Hall-effect sensors is worthwhile, as the cheaper ones are not precise enough and have too much of a dead zone at the center position. (I don't find that a yoke and pedals add anything for IFR work.)
 
Get a decent home PC, with xplane 11 and pilotedge.net for ATC. Its way cheaper than the airplane and you can set the wx at minimum every flight and shoot any kind of approach to any airport at any time..
 
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