Price of engine overhauls...

Jimmy cooper said:
To watch an 0200 or an 85 say, be rebuilt, to see it opened up, it's very simple tech. And way overpriced. It should be illegal what is charged. It's 1930s design not 1950s and for any real good auto maven mechanic its a no brainier. Easy. Important to remember the first bonanzas sold for around ten grand. They are now half a mill. Absurd.
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How many of your auto mechanics will except the liability of an aircraft engine?
 
oh no....here we go. :eek:

ever try and have a boat motor overhauled?....then the drive? :mad2:
 
That arguement is very weak. The cost of overhauling these simple engines is absurd and I'm sure many many have been rebuilt by auto mechanics over the years and not reported. No wonder GA is dying!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
That arguement is very weak. The cost of overhauling these simple engines is absurd and I'm sure many many have been rebuilt by auto mechanics over the years and not reported. No wonder GA is dying!
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so....where's the money going?

Tom ain't all that rich, and he's done a few. :yes:

IMHO....it's not liability that drives cost....it's $100/hr shop rates with expensive machinist that drive cost.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
That arguement is very weak. The cost of overhauling these simple engines is absurd and I'm sure many many have been rebuilt by auto mechanics over the years and not reported. No wonder GA is dying!
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Well maybe, pulling them apart and installing a new set of bearings is pretty easy. getting them to stay installed is another story.

His car customers can usually bring the equipment back, could you?
 
I would also suspect some of the difference in labor times/rates may be:

Car/Truck engine break down: Pull over, get it towed, fix it

Airplane engine break down: Hopefully you were on the ground. If not, you'll be there soon anyway

Wanted to note for my Jimmy, I agree.... I'm willing to pay a premium for better work, but the current premium we pay is quite high
 
Build your own. Keep tabs on the disassembly time. Pack up the parts and send them out for non-destructive testing, machining, plating, balancing, etc. total up the new parts like a few lifters, some pushrods, bearings, gaskets, etc. Upgrade the oil pump. Buy new cylinders. Have the mags overhauled. And the carb. Maybe buy a new harness for appearances. Don't forget new spark plugs. Then keep track of your labor to reassemble. Add up you hard costs and then assign a fair value to your labor. At that moment the overhaul shop's prices will make sense.
 
Well, there's apparently an A&P in the thread who's done a few, perhaps he'd like to provide a rough breakdown for those of us who are curious?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Well, there's apparently an A&P in the thread who's done a few, perhaps he'd like to provide a rough breakdown for those of us who are curious?
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If you are referring to me, this is how it works.
I charge a flat fee for the labor. (2500.00) every thing else is on your CC. I get half the 2500 up front, as cash to work with for packaging and shipping etc. I keep receipts and add them to the final bill.

You get to order parts if you like, or I can and you get to call with your CC and pay for them, that goes as well with the machine work.
You can check prices at several places on line to see who has the best prices.

Any options you want, you order and pay for, new baffling, sure, new mags, sure, want new? ship it to me. It's your money. I'll ship cores and add the shipping to the bill.

When I get all parts, I check all clearances, and wash all parts, paint your custom color, and assemble with all new hardware.

setting a fare labor fee, stops me from hurrying, but doesn't over charge you for me being slow as hell.
 
Tom-D said:
I charge a flat fee for the labor. (2500.00) every thing else is on your CC. I

setting a fare labor fee, stops me from hurrying, but doesn't over charge you for me being slow as hell.
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Sounds like a good arrangement to me.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
so....where's the money going?

Tom ain't all that rich, and he's done a few. :yes:

IMHO....it's not liability that drives cost....it's $100/hr shop rates with expensive machinist that drive cost.
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Ever figure out what the auto dealer's shops rate truly is? $100.00 ain't bad compared to them.
 
Besides, no A&P in my area charges $100. The most expensive, that I'm aware of is $85. Some as cheap as $60.
 
Norman said:
Ever figure out what the auto dealer's shops rate truly is? $100.00 ain't bad compared to them.
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...and auto's are usually more reliable and require less maintenance.....so that might be why the dealership bills aren't more than an 1 AMU.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
...and auto's are usually more reliable and require less maintenance.....so that might be why the dealership bills aren't more than an 1 AMU.
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Well, I will concede that airplanes are more labor intensive, but does that justify the auto dealer's rate?
 
I would not use a car dealer as a example, dealers tend to hugely overcharge and under perform.


I had a Chevy dealer do a simple oil change on my Vette, jacked it up without the pucks, cracked the bottom of my rockers, $500 in fiberglass repair.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
FBO's typically do charge outrageous rates....:rolleyes:
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They must.. just to cover the costs of renting a commercial building, pay the help, EPA disposal cost, L&I insurance, Liability insurance, buy the tools and equipment.

Two of my more frequented shops the owners say they are barely making wages. @ $100. shop rate.

My Motor home repair station charges me $180 shop rate and require a 3 hours min.
 
Just like the medical argument going on in another thread, certified/commercial GA would be benefited from not having to treat everything like it's a part 121 operation, latter which does benefit from economies of scale and meaningful and actually powerful corporate lackeys lobbying on their behalf in Congress, by orders of magnitude.

That assertion doesn't have to imply a wanton disregard for safety or a plight for anarchy, like the FAA and other three letter federal soup jobs program outfits would probably argue. But that ship has sailed. The best we can do as hobbyist is to try to circle the wagons around experimentals and cost-cut through that avenue in order to have something left to pass on to the grandkids.

I'm not willing to drop 40K for an engine on a 40K airplane, and I don't have the resources to buy a 40K airplane capability for 500K new, so experimental is probably it.....
 
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RoscoeT said:
Only 14K? You mean if you do it yourself? More like 25-30K for those I know who've sent their 360 out.
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peerlesscowboy said:
LyCon Rebuilding
Vasilia, CA
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25-30k is way too high. But 14k is pretty low for them to make any money unless they could do the maching in-house

when I did my O-360's I sent out the case, crank, and cam machining. Bought new lyc cylinders and all the mandatory replacement items. It cost me ~12.5K per engine not counting any of my own labor or overhead. If you were a shop paying for overhead, insurance, and labor I'd guess you could make money in the 18-22K range.
 
Norman said:
Well, I will concede that airplanes are more labor intensive, but does that justify the auto dealer's rate?
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Our effective labor rate, which is the actual amount we take in per customer paid labor hour is $73.00. It incorporates discounts, oil changes, brake work, alignments etc that are all done at a very low labor rate, as well as the heavy repairs, engine, transmissions, electrical etc. I'd say we are similar to most dometic dealerships in out area. Average tech makes $22.00 per hour, plus benefits so roughly $30-33 per hour average. Throw in a little overhead, a service advisor and it's not quite as it appears. ;) I'm not complaining, but there is a big difference between the posted rate and the actual effective rate. :D
 
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