Price Adjustment

J

JD318

Pre-takeoff checklist
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JD
I am looking at possibly purchasing an airplane. I have been renting thus far and it is getting more difficult to get a plane when I want to go.

There is a local airplane that my A&P knows well as he's done the maintenance/annuals for years/decades. The owner passed away a couple years ago so I am dealing with widow. I believe she is looking for $60-65,000. Airplane is very clean inside and out and appears to have been taken care of very well while owner was alive. It was his "baby."

Issues with the aircraft:

1. Aircraft sat in hangar for a couple years without being flown.
2. Engine is at TBO now. Compressions were a little low at annual last year. Assume due to it sitting. I have flown it some over the last year and compressions have come up and seems to run strong.
3. No ADSB. I know not everybody "needs" ADSB, but I do intend to fly to Class C airspace so I will need it.

Based on those 3 items, I have been advised by a number of individuals (CFI, mechanic, other pilots) that it is a $50-55,000 plane. Two other items that have come up since then:
4. Intercom needs to be addressed. Pilot headset can hear and communicate with no problems. Co-Pilot can communicate with Pilot, but cannot hear pilot. Co-Pilot can hear tower.
5. This one was close to making me completely walk away, and is still worrisome. I noticed what appeared to be corrosion on one access panel plate while doing a walk-around. Apparently while it was sitting, a mouse had made a nest right above the access plate, moisture/humidity eventually seeped down to the plate. A&P says no indication of further corrosion. Entire inside of wing was treated.

My question(s) is this: What does each issue potentially cost to address? What kind of bargaining power do I have if I decided I do want to buy? Is it best to walk away completely? Any other thoughts?

Thank you.
 
You can always offer.

Depending on the widow (and whomever is advising her, if anyone), you could explain your reasoning. Given the situation, I'd always be respectful of her feelings about the dead spouse. This was a treasured possession of someone she presumably loved. Give her some assurance that you too will treasure and appreciate it. Might do wonders. Also, it could be a relief to get it off her list of things to deal with.

Or, this could be part of his/her retirement nest egg and she may have unreal expectations based on conversations years ago that you're not privy to.
 
Go ahead and make a written offer, with closing contingent on a full pre-purchase inspection.

If accepted, next find a completely different mechanic at a different location to do the inspection, and have him/her estimate the cost to get your desired items addressed, and then discount the final price accordingly.

The contingency lets you walk away with your deposit refunded, if you can’t agree on the newly adjusted price.

You will be out your cost of inspection, but that’s how this works.
 
With it being at TBO and sitting a few years, it needs an overhaul of some kind. If not now, very soon. Depending on what engine it is that varies greatly. Talking 20k-50k. But a freshly overhauled engine is one of the few things that is actually worth the investment as far as resale value. Check the tail number and make sure its not out of registration. If it's out of registration the FAA will lock the number and would have to re-register with a different tail number. ADS-B out isnt that big of a deal to put a tail beacon on for compliance.
 
As essentially a runout, the aircraft value should be appropriately reduced to reflect the added expense of overhauling the engine, likely sooner than later. Compared to similar aircraft with ADS-B and fully operational avionics, price should be additionally reduced by probably at least half the cost of making those improvements. Any price is of course contingent upon a clean bill of health on a pre-purchase inspection. Any significant anomalies found would result in further reductions in offered price. In the end, the plane has to be affordable to a new owner, including any costs required to bring it into usable condition. The final price, plus required improvements, should be no more than the value you personally attach to the aircraft.
 
Racerx said:
With it being at TBO and sitting a few years, it needs an overhaul of some kind. If not now, very soon. Depending on what engine it is that varies greatly. Talking 20k-50k. But a freshly overhauled engine is one of the few things that is actually worth the investment as far as resale value. Check the tail number and make sure its not out of registration. If it's out of registration the FAA will lock the number and would have to re-register with a different tail number. ADS-B out isnt that big of a deal to put a tail beacon on for compliance.
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Not necessarily....I bought the cherokee at 2200 hrs, there were many years in it's previous 30 yr history that it hadn't flown or only flew less than 10 years. Only reason I had the overhaul at 2900 hr was the insurance company paid for it after the prop strike. Without the prop strike, probably could have gone a few more years...Bullet-proof lycoming!

More info needed to provide ideas:
1) What year airplane
2) What kind?
3) What avionics are in it now?
4) How will you be flying it? This goes back to #3. If the avionics are fine for VFR and you plan only VFR flying, then you're probably fine.

As mentioned earlier, ADSB is easy and relatively (for aviation about $1500) inexpensive if you don't want Garmin or Lynx.

Without this additional info, I'd offer $50K and see what happens.
 
1969 Beech E33 - IO470

Avionics - Narco radios, transponder etc, Century III aP, nothing great but everything works. VFR right now, would like to start training for IFR.
 
It's really difficult to give you figures based on the info provided. That said, I would think the mechanic that worked on it for decades would be able to tell you exactly what it would cost to address your discrepancies. With that info decide on a fair offer if you want to deal with the maintenance. The market dictates price, look at what comparable aircraft are selling for.
 
JD318 said:
1969 Beech E33 - IO470

Avionics - Narco radios, transponder etc, Century III aP, nothing great but everything works. VFR right now, would like to start training for IFR.
Click to expand...
Don't plan for the Narco's to last much longer because there repairing them is incredibly expensive. There are slide-in replacements (TKM) but if you're going to spend the money, assume an upgrade to include GPS.
 
New engine, has flown very little probably last 10 years, new panel, dealing with a widow, dealing with a mechanic who has vested interest in plane(ie get your own mechanic to look it over). How much would the plane be worth if you fixed it up as you intend? How much will it cost you in time and down time. Do you have the contacts locally to do the work or will it all be done far from home where by people you’ve had no previous experience with their work? If I had a local engine shop, avionics shop, mechanic who I trusted, I’d let them tell me what I was getting into, and then add 50% to their estimate.
 
JD318 said:
Issues with the aircraft:

1. Aircraft sat in hangar for a couple years without being flown.
2. Engine is at TBO now. Compressions were a little low at annual last year. Assume due to it sitting. I have flown it some over the last year and compressions have come up and seems to run strong.
3. No ADSB. I know not everybody "needs" ADSB, but I do intend to fly to Class C airspace so I will need it.
Click to expand...
Personally, I don’t see any of those things as being a real deal breaker.

Get a borescope inspection done and check for corrosion. If it looks okay, fly the snot out of it and I’d bet the compressions will uptick by a few lbs at least.

Secondly, you can add SkyBeacon pretty inexpensively, so as long as you can get it for a price that accounts for the cost of that, I’d say you’d be in good shape!

Best of luck!
 
You should have the A&P give you a ballpark figure on what it will cost to fix all of those items. And shoot low on your offer and see if she stands her ground. When I bought my plane the owner himself thought is was an $80K plane. Once I had the mechanic address any issues I bought for $55K.
 
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