Preventive Maintenance - What to do?

Lance F

Lance F

En-Route
PoA Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
2,943
Location
GA
Display Name
Display name:
Lance F
My Mooney is used in my business, but even if it weren't I want a reliable plane. Virtually any thing that isn't right is fixed immediately. No waiting for the next annual for me.
But an hour ago my son called me from KBLM in northern New Jersey. He was flying from Hartford, CT back to Atlanta and didn't make it very far. The low voltage alarm on the engine monitor came on, followed by the low voltage annunciator light. The ammeter was showing a large discharge. He made the correct decision to land at the nearest suitable airport.
Fortunately, there was a maintenance shop there that took a look and diagnosed a bad alternator. One was ordered for overnight delivery from Spruce, and he should be back on his way tomorrow. However, there's a high cost to fixing things on the road. I figure 3X what it would cost to do it in my hangar on my time schedule.
Two or three years ago we had a starter fail in Illinois, many hours away from home and went through the same hassle.
So what should one do? This alternator was only 4 years, 4 months old. Does anyone replace these essential accessories on a time or flight hour basis? If so, how would one establish what that time period should be? Or do most people wait for things like this to fail and live with the inconvenience of a failure on the road?
Ideas? Anybody a Mike Busch client? I wonder what he says about this.
 
Last edited:
As an aside, I did a search here for KBLM and found one of our members, Marc, that hangs out there. I sent him a PM, and he was able to help out with some local transportation. POAers are a good group. I hope I can help someone out some time.
Thanks Marc.
 
Many alternators have 500hr inspection guide lines.

It also could just be another case of Kelly strikes again
 
Nice to have met you today. Hope all works out.
 
I stick to SkyTec starters. I also keep a spare started and left magneto with me. 500 hour overhauls on the mags are good.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I stick to SkyTec starters. I also keep a spare started and left magneto with me. 500 hour overhauls on the mags are good.
Click to expand...

That is what I would wonder. Also an alternator in a bag o' parts?

What would be the total weight of a starter + Mag + Alternator?

Would that get 80% of the common failures / quick fixes that leave someone stranded?
 
Skylane81E said:
Many alternators have 500hr inspection guide lines.

It also could just be another case of Kelly strikes again
Click to expand...

I think he said the starter was the problem.

At least in my automotive ventures I have only been stranded by a starter once. Usually, they give some notice before they fail entirely.
 
I've heard some people don't like to actually carry the dead weight and are flying mostly domestically, so they leave the box o' spare parts with someone/someplace they can call and have everything inside pre-packaged ready to ship. They have someone drop them ready-packaged at FedEx/UPS.

You're stuck one extra day at your remote outstation, but you bought the parts already at hopefully cheaper prices.

Reality is, labor is the higher cost on many things if the shop isn't putting a percentage on parts. Many don't. Whether you're getting the "local" price on labor or the "guy stranded at my airport" price, is hard to find out.

The other reality is, you can probably get stuff shipped from Spruce for about the same price as all of that time and effort.

That said, if you fly to a lot of remote places... that's a different story and a different gameplan.
 
JoseCuervo said:
That is what I would wonder. Also an alternator in a bag o' parts?

What would be the total weight of a starter + Mag + Alternator?

Would that get 80% of the common failures / quick fixes that leave someone stranded?
Click to expand...

Yes, an alternator is a good spare to carry around if you're flying a single. Flying a twin, I don't really worry about it because I come with a spare already attached. In the case of the 310, one alternator can run prop heat, all avionics, and the Janitrol, but not the pitot heat. Notice I turn off the pitot heat before I turn off the Janitrol. :)

Actually, if I really had that situation, I would probably find some avionics and unnecessary lighting to turn off first so I could keep the pitot heat on.

The reason this matters to me is consideration of losing an alternator and having icing conditions, which is max electrical load on the plane. Anything else is less severe.

Total for all of them would probably be 20-25 lbs, which really is pretty insignificant for most of us. In my case, that would have solved 90% of the times I've had the plane broken unexpectedly and unable to make a trip.

Any of these items can be repaired on most planes in an hour, maybe 2. So the reality is that you should never be stuck for more than an overnight, and in most cases you could probably get it fixed and be on your way. I also carry some tools with me so that I can fix it myself if need be. No, I'm not an A&P. But if I'm 1,000 miles from nowhere in Canada, I'm changing that starter.
 
1 of my customers have spare parts listed on a sheet in their hangars corresponding to numbers on a row of boxes.
When they have failures on cross countries they phone and have the correct box shipped over night.
 
Why would a bad starter cause a draw after the starter solenoid released?
 
Today's problem was diagnosed as a bad alternator. Four years/700 hours seems like premature failure to me. There is no 500 hour inspection for this alternator that I am aware of. Spruce is getting a replacement to the shop in NJ as fast as I could have if I'd had one in my hangar. I really don't want to lug a starter and alternator around in the plane. So should one replace these every so many hours as PM?
 
Lance F said:
My Mooney is used in my business, but even if it weren't I want a reliable plane. Virtually any thing that isn't right is fixed immediately. No waiting for the next annual for me.
But an hour ago my son called me from KBLM in northern New Jersey. He was flying from Hartford, CT back to Atlanta and didn't make it very far. The low voltage alarm on the engine monitor came on, followed by the low voltage annunciator light. The ammeter was showing a large discharge. He made the correct decision to land at the nearest suitable airport.
Fortunately, there was a maintenance shop there that took a look and diagnosed a bad starter. One was ordered for overnight delivery from Spruce, and he should be back on his way tomorrow. However, there's a high cost to fixing things on the road. I figure 3X what it would cost to do it in my hangar on my time schedule.
Two or three years ago we had a starter fail in Illinois, many hours away from home and went through the same hassle.
So what should one do? This alternator was only 4 years, 4 months old. Does anyone replace these essential accessories on a time or flight hour basis? If so, how would one establish what that time period should be? Or do most people wait for things like this to fail and live with the inconvenience of a failure on the road?
Ideas? Anybody a Mike Busch client? I wonder what he says about this.
Click to expand...


Starter???? :confused:

We arnt talking a starter/generator like in a turbine are we
 
Lance F said:
Today's problem was diagnosed as a bad alternator. Four years/700 hours seems like premature failure to me. There is no 500 hour inspection for this alternator that I am aware of. Spruce is getting a replacement to the shop in NJ as fast as I could have if I'd had one in my hangar. I really don't want to lug a starter and alternator around in the plane. So should one replace these every so many hours as PM?
Click to expand...

For a Kelly product? Hell, four years/700 hrs is fantastic.:rofl: You can take it to your local Auto Electric shop every couple hundred hours if you want, but there's not much they can tell you or do to it if it doesn't have a blown part.

BTW, in the OP you said they diagnosed it as a starter.
 
Last edited:
As for preemptively replacing parts, I don't, but I have 2 of everything and will fly home with one alternator. If you have a dry vacuum pump, I'd change that every 500 if flying a bunch of IFR.
 
My error in original post. This one's a bad alternator. Sorry
 
Lance F said:
736 hours on it. It was a Kelly Aerospace overhaul according to the logbook entry.
Click to expand...
There's your problem :mad2:
I went through two Kelleys in three years.

There are a few common things that will strand you. Battery, mags, starter, alternator, and primer (In some birds you can start by pumping the throttle, mine will not).

A Concorde battery will cover that.
Carrying a left mag will cover that.
Putting in a Plane Power alternator will cover that.
Putting in a SkyTec or Hartzell starter will cover that.
Carrying a primer overhaul kit will cover that (o-rings, fuel lube, and a couple hand tools)

One the primer, mine quit in Ness City, KS. The primer wouldn't pull. I rotated the primer and found one little spot where I would get about 1/6th of a stroke of prime. 12 pumps later, I could get the engine started.
Now, a $4 primer kit lives in the glovebox ( source, aircraftdoorseals.com )
 
I'd agree that Kelly overhauls aren't worth much. We are going to PlanePower alternators when these go out. It's been probably 400ish hours since we put these on. They're basically the same folks as SkyTec, and are actually trying to make a better product.

Remember these parts have lots of vibes and don't last as long as in a car. Dynamic prop balancing should help.

If you don't want to carry a spare, certainly that's your operational prerogative. Given that, 500 hours isn't an uncommon number for preventative maintenance.
 
Henning said:
Why would a bad starter cause a draw after the starter solenoid released?
Click to expand...

That was my first thought...unless there was some kind of internal short in the solenoid that draws current but not enough to move the shuttle.
 
Many in the Bonanza community suggest 500 hours as a prophylactic replacement interval for the alternators (at leads, on the gear-driven alternators like the IO520 and IO550 engines have). If the alternator fails mechanically on those, it can puke metal into the engine and, possibly, damage the drive gear which is internal. That could be a very expensive failure, indeed!
 
SCCutler said:
Many in the Bonanza community suggest 500 hours as a prophylactic replacement interval for the alternators (at leads, on the gear-driven alternators like the IO520 and IO550 engines have). If the alternator fails mechanically on those, it can puke metal into the engine and, possibly, damage the drive gear which is internal. That could be a very expensive failure, indeed!
Click to expand...

That's shared in Twin Cessna. Of course, on a Lycoming you have a belt-driven alternator (same as on my IO-520-Es), which is nicer.

The idea is similar to why starter-generators on turbines often have a 500 hour interval. If it fails on the start especially, it can lead to a hot start. On a turbine, that's very, very bad.
 
Thanks for the good ideas. Already use Concorde battery and SkyTec starter (but did have one of those fail me on the road). The Plane Power alternator I need is AL12-P70. If I'd known about them, I would have had the shop order it rather than another Kelly Aerospace. Live and learn. Too late now. Hopefully the Kelly unit is on the UPS truck on the way to the shop as I type this. We need to get this plane home!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'd agree that Kelly overhauls aren't worth much. We are going to PlanePower alternators when these go out. It's been probably 400ish hours since we put these on. They're basically the same folks as SkyTec, and are actually trying to make a better product.
Click to expand...
+1 to Plane Power. About 2 years ago I had an alternator failure (a Kelly) that led to a lengthy bout of troubleshooting low bus voltages. It turned out the replacement alternator (also a Kelly) was also bad from the start. I went with a Plane Power alternator from (I think) Spruce and haven't had any trouble since.

(The low bus voltages were something else, as it turned out. My A&P did some cleaning of contacts and switches and the problem went away).
 
Bad news from the airplane repair front. It seems that FedEx didn't bother to put the alternator coming from Spruce West on a plane last night. So my son has been sitting waiting for a delivery all day that isn't going to happen. Shop is searching to see if they can find something/anything to get him home tonight. Not sure how to get him home and then back up there to pick the plane up when it's done. What a mess.
 
Lance F said:
Bad news from the airplane repair front. It seems that FedEx didn't bother to put the alternator coming from Spruce West on a plane last night. So my son has been sitting waiting for a delivery all day that isn't going to happen. Shop is searching to see if they can find something/anything to get him home tonight. Not sure how to get him home and then back up there to pick the plane up when it's done. What a mess.
Click to expand...

Your son should grab the alternator and take it to the local auto electric shop and have them fix it, then give it back to the shop. The shop cannot do this, your son can.
 
Henning said:
Your son should grab the alternator and take it to the local auto electric shop and have them fix it, then give it back to the shop. The shop cannot do this, your son can.
Click to expand...

If there's a good auto electric shop, I'd sure be tempted. These things are NOT special (until they're bolted in).
 
Great minds think alike. If we'd known the replacement was lost and had this idea earlier, it would have worked. Too late now, but thanks for the idea.
 
This is exactly what happened to me with a magneto failure, and is why I carry spares.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top