Preventing Go-Around Accidents

[Henning]

Even more interesting -- initial CFI in a BE18.

Yeah, I already talked to a future bosses POI about it, shouldn't be a problem. Still hardly see it as worth it. I've got a starving buddy right now as a long time 58 y/o CFI, why bother?

 

[gismo]

That's what I'm saying. These guys atre acting like it's extremely dangerous to land with less flaps. Some airplanes dont even have flaps.. Check your POH it probably says DESIRED flap setting.. Not you must use FULL flaps or certain death will follow.

You may be missing the point. Since the last "notch" of flaps produces almost nothing but additional drag and virtually no reduction in stall speed, the "advantage" of partial flaps in the form of higher landing speed and "more control authority" is equally non-existent.

 

[COFlyBoy]

The answer to your issue is to increase your skill, not decrease your flaps. Problem is you've made that much harder to do with all the sight picture and muscle memory you developed in the intervening time. However, there is a simple exercise you can do for a couple of hours and you will never again have an issue of "looking for the runway" beneath you and you'll be able to win every spot landing contest in the region.

Which is what I did. One of the great things about the Cherokee flaps is that the 2 notch and 3 notch attitude is the same. The energy bleed is slower with just 2 notches (since you don't have all the extra parasitic drag) which gives a new pilot more time to adjust to the change in control feel while slow and in the ground effect.

After I mastered the 2 notch landing I went back to full flaps.

I guess I'll go back to my original comment. The difference betweens 2 and 3 notches is only the abruptness of the stall and the descent angle. The energy carried to the runway is the same.

 

[Henning]

That's what I'm saying. These guys atre acting like it's extremely dangerous to land with less flaps. Some airplanes dont even have flaps.. Check your POH it probably says DESIRED flap setting.. Not you must use FULL flaps or certain death will follow.

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Not "Dangerous", "Hazardous". The danger comes from the human side, not the natural side. Nature has hazards, People are dangerous.

The hazards increase geometrically with speed, it's as simple as that, so yes YOU are more dangerous landing at the higher speed and with less flaps because you don't deign it necessary to develop the skills to deal with natures hazards in the best way possible. There's always more than one way to skin a cat, but if you don't kill it first, you increase your chances the cat will hurt you. If you try to skin a Tiger alive, you'll likely not survive it, so you better practice shooting straight or stay out of Tiger country and stick to skinning kitty cats. However, you can find that you don't need to skin the cat at all. If you spend the time to develop a relationship with that tiger, she'll come lay down on the living room floor all by herself and be a pillow.

 

[p1l0t]

I wanted to address this separately. What you did was screw yourself. Rather than practicing at getting it right, you have ingrained bad habits that one day may lead to the demise of you and your passenger.

Don't look for an "easier way" to do things when it comes to flying. Practice until you get them right. "Quit Flying Abruptly" is EXACTLY what you want on a landing especially when you have strong adverse wind condition. Once you are on the ground, you want to stay there. Any accident you can have at less than flying speed with all the wheels on the ground is going to be infinitely safer than anything that involves going through the air out of control.

The problem isn't that the plane stops flying abruptly, the problem is that you can't judge the distance to the ground properly and when the plane quits flying abruptly, you're too far off the ground. It's your error, not the flaps, and rather than correct your deficiency in ability to protect you by increasing skill, you forge a crutch from the airplane's ability to protect you in a crash. The problem is the day that crutch get's kicked out from beneath you, you and everyone on board will have a much increased chance of dying.

The answer to your issue is to increase your skill, not decrease your flaps. Problem is you've made that much harder to do with all the sight picture and muscle memory you developed in the intervening time. However, there is a simple exercise you can do for a couple of hours and you will never again have an issue of "looking for the runway" beneath you and you'll be able to win every spot landing contest in the region.

Head on over to the biggest old bomber base you can find, if you can get to one of the old triangle ones with 11,000' runways, they're the best, although Long Beach's "tick tack toe with a slash" design is ultimate. (on a slow evening we'd just keep taking off and doing 270* turns to land on the runway last crossed and such so you could get landings with the wind from all quarters). On your way there, practice full flaps Minimum Controllable Airspeed flight with the stall horn blaring for 5 solid minutes as you S-Turn back and forth +/- 30* of your course and see how tight you can get the turns. Start the exercise about 10 minutes before when you'll be on final and note your power setting you find that works the best. Fly down final but this time as you get near, slow down to the same MCA settings, and work your way down to the runway staying at those settings. Level off over the threshold and lower the nose just a touch to set on the runway and raise it a touch to pick it off, and just "skip" the plane down the runway like this. Spend an hour just skipping down runways at MCA.

Crosswinds are the one time it's safer to be under the power curve rather than over it because of the greater control authority. Learn to be comfortable there.

I would rather "quit flying abruptly" at a higher speed where I have more airflow over the rudder. I have better directional control. A personal attack on his flying skills? Come on now. Landing with partial flaps is NOT going to kill his passengers. Stop trolling.

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[Henning]

Which is what I did. One of the great things about the Cherokee flaps is that the 2 notch and 3 notch attitude is the same. The energy bleed is slower with just 2 notches (since you don't have all the extra parasitic drag) which gives a new pilot more time to adjust to the change in control feel while slow and in the ground effect.

After I mastered the 2 notch landing I went back to full flaps.

I guess I'll go back to my original comment. The difference betweens 2 and 3 notches is only the abruptness of the stall and the descent angle. The energy carried to the runway is the same.

Untrue and impossible. You reduce lift by reducing flaps for any given speed which means either your forward or vertical speeds will be higher as will your energy at touch down. TINSTAAFL

 

[Henning]

I would rather "quit flying abruptly" at a higher speed where I have more airflow over the rudder. I have better directional control. A personal attack on his flying skills? Come on now. Landing with partial flaps is NOT going to kill his passengers. Stop trolling.

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I'll start insulting not only your skills but intelligence too in about 2 more posts as well....

You will have more airflow across the rudder and general stabilizing forces (including gyroscopic from the prop) while at the same time reducing the crosswind component from the relative wind. You can still carry the extra speed with full flaps by carrying some extra power which increases your rudder authority, and they increase your ability to shed that extra energy.

 

[COFlyBoy]

That's what I'm saying. These guys atre acting like it's extremely dangerous to land with less flaps. Some airplanes dont even have flaps.. Check your POH it probably says DESIRED flap setting.. Not you must use FULL flaps or certain death will follow.

I can kinda see Hennings point, but I think he's overreaching by saying less flaps is more dangerous.

I think a pilot should be proficient enough with any flap setting to land a plane safely. In my plane no flaps is a far more difficult maneuver than full flaps (on account of not being able to see the runway at all in the flare). 2 notches makes it easiest to get a squeaker.

 

[Henning]

You may be missing the point. Since the last "notch" of flaps produces almost nothing but additional drag and virtually no reduction in stall speed, the "advantage" of partial flaps in the form of higher landing speed and "more control authority" is equally non-existent.

You actually cost yourself control rather than adding it. The problem stems from people who don't develop the ability to access all the control the plane offers them. Some where along the line some moron flight instructor heard "Speed is Life" from a fighter pilot talking about combat and translated that to landings....

 

[Henning]

I can kinda see Hennings point, but I think he's overreaching by saying less flaps is more dangerous.

I think a pilot should be proficient enough with any flap setting to land a plane safely. In my plane no flaps is a far more difficult maneuver than full flaps (on account of not being able to see the runway at all in the flare). 2 notches makes it easiest to get a squeaker.

I NEVER said less flaps is more dangerous, I said less flaps is more hazardous. I said that the pilot that requires less flaps to make a landing work is more dangerous because they lack understanding of energy and the skills and confidence to control the aircraft.

 

[jesse]

Yeah, I already talked to a future bosses POI about it, shouldn't be a problem. Still hardly see it as worth it. I've got a starving buddy right now as a long time 58 y/o CFI, why bother?

Instructing is good for the soul.

 

[poadeleted20]

You'd have still more rudder authority if you came in at Vne, but I think (hope?) you realize that's not a good reason to do it. Most times, enough is enough. If you're trading away more valuable commodities in order to have more than enough rudder authority, you're not making a real good decision.

 

[Henning]

Instructing is good for the soul.

It's 80% or more of what I do for a living already at a much higher payscale. I prefer to relax and enjoy the view when I'm flying, it's my destressor, that's why when I take flying jobs they are typically utility jobs where I am the only person in the airplane. That way I can relax and not have to worry about other peoples safety. I try not to die, but I'm not particularly worried about it, if it's my day to die, it's my day to die, c`est la vie, no of us gets out alive. I have enough responsibility at other things that I prefer to keep flying enjoyable.

 

[Henning]

LOL, you know when Ron and I agree on a subject and argue with you, you must have it f-d up...

 

[Henning]

There is nothing that reducing the flaps does that adding a touch of power to full flaps won't accomplish in a safer manner.

Flying is about controlling energy, mechanical energy is much easier to control than kinetic.

 

[jesse]

It's 80% or more of what I do for a living already at a much higher payscale. I prefer to relax and enjoy the view when I'm flying, it's my destressor, that's why when I take flying jobs they are typically utility jobs where I am the only person in the airplane. That way I can relax and not have to worry about other peoples safety. I try not to die, but I'm not particularly worried about it, if it's my day to die, it's my day to die, c`est la vie, no of us gets out alive. I have enough responsibility at other things that I prefer to keep flying enjoyable.

Understandable. The easiest mistake to make instructing is to start relaxing too much. It gets easy to trust that student over there - but the minute you do that - they'll do the damnest thing for no reason. You really have to try and stay alert and pay attention to every thing their hands are doing. Constantly.

When something finally clicks for someone - and their skills start coming together - it's a very rewarding feeling. That is why I do it.

 

[Henning]

Understandable. The easiest mistake to make instructing is to start relaxing too much. It gets easy to trust that student over there - but the minute you do that - they'll do the damnest thing for no reason. You really have to try and stay alert and pay attention to every thing their hands are doing. Constantly.

When something finally clicks for someone - and their skills start coming together - it's a very rewarding feeling. That is why I do it.

It's all the exact same thing with boats.

 

[Jaybird180]

Student Pilot pre-solo question (to help with the speed discussion):
What determines the upper limit of the crosswind component the airplane can handle(the answer I'm looking for here is NOT pilot skill - what answer would a student give).

Base further discussion of X-Wind landing configuration/speed from here.

Confession: I too was taught to not use full flaps in strong X-Wind conditions. I was also taught to add 1/2 gust factor to my approach speed. IIRC, that is in the C172P POH (don't have it in front of me). I also had opportunity to perform a multiple configuration landings, including a near cruise speed landing when expediting landing at a certain Class B in my local area.

I wanted to address this separately. What you did was screw yourself. Rather than practicing at getting it right, you have ingrained bad habits that one day may lead to the demise of you and your passenger.

Don't look for an "easier way" to do things when it comes to flying. Practice until you get them right. "Quit Flying Abruptly" is EXACTLY what you want on a landing especially when you have strong adverse wind condition. Once you are on the ground, you want to stay there. Any accident you can have at less than flying speed with all the wheels on the ground is going to be infinitely safer than anything that involves going through the air out of control.

The problem isn't that the plane stops flying abruptly, the problem is that you can't judge the distance to the ground properly and when the plane quits flying abruptly, you're too far off the ground. It's your error, not the flaps, and rather than correct your deficiency in ability to protect you by increasing skill, you forge a crutch from the airplane's ability to protect you in a crash. The problem is the day that crutch get's kicked out from beneath you, you and everyone on board will have a much increased chance of dying.

The answer to your issue is to increase your skill, not decrease your flaps. Problem is you've made that much harder to do with all the sight picture and muscle memory you developed in the intervening time. However, there is a simple exercise you can do for a couple of hours and you will never again have an issue of "looking for the runway" beneath you and you'll be able to win every spot landing contest in the region.

Head on over to the biggest old bomber base you can find, if you can get to one of the old triangle ones with 11,000' runways, they're the best, although Long Beach's "tick tack toe with a slash" design is ultimate. (on a slow evening we'd just keep taking off and doing 270* turns to land on the runway last crossed and such so you could get landings with the wind from all quarters). On your way there, practice full flaps Minimum Controllable Airspeed flight with the stall horn blaring for 5 solid minutes as you S-Turn back and forth +/- 30* of your course and see how tight you can get the turns. Start the exercise about 10 minutes before when you'll be on final and note your power setting you find that works the best. Fly down final but this time as you get near, slow down to the same MCA settings, and work your way down to the runway staying at those settings. Level off over the threshold and lower the nose just a touch to set on the runway and raise it a touch to pick it off, and just "skip" the plane down the runway like this. Spend an hour just skipping down runways at MCA.

Crosswinds are the one time it's safer to be under the power curve rather than over it because of the greater control authority. Learn to be comfortable there.

Am I the only one that thought this is a training accident waiting to happen? Good ideas, yes, but opens the door for possible legal culpability. No???

 

[jesse]

Student Pilot pre-solo question (to help with the speed discussion):
What determines the upper limit of the crosswind component the airplane can handle(the answer I'm looking for here is NOT pilot skill - what answer would a student give).

You've reached the upper limit when you run out of rudder.

 

[fgcason]

Am I the only one that thought this is a training accident waiting to happen? Good ideas, yes, but opens the door for possible legal culpability. No???

I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a heck of a lot safer than listening to a CFI tell you to cross the threshold at 80kts in a STOL 172 that has 40deg of flaps because any slower is dangerous. BFS. No wonder so many people get spooky about runways under 5000 ft long nowadays. It takes 4600 feet to slow down enough to not rip the rubber completely off the tires when they finally do touch then have to skid to a stop before getting into the runway lights.

I pretty much do the same thing as Henning does. Any uneducated monkey can go fast and use miles of runway. It takes skill and understanding to fly slow. If you really want to learn to handle a plane and not just drive it like a car, do an entire hour long flight review within 5kts of stall speed starting from liftoff until landing including go arounds.

 

[EdFred]

You've reached the upper limit when you run out of rudder.

Nah, I've run out of rudder and still landed. Had to side-load it a bit, though. Full rudder, aggressive slip, and still had to crab to maintain centerline. First day in that model of airplane too. Fun times.

My answer to a student pilot is, "whatever I put as a limitation in your logbook."

 

[jesse]

Nah, I've run out of rudder and still landed. Had to side-load it a bit, though. Full rudder, aggressive slip, and still had to crab to maintain centerline. First day in that model of airplane too. Fun times.

My answer to a student pilot is, "whatever I put as a limitation in your logbook."

It just depends on how much side-load you're willing to accept. I'm not willing to accept much and I've flown in a LOT of wind. There is generally always a way to accomplish the flight without slamming your airplane into a runway sideways.

 

[gismo]

You've reached the upper limit when you run out of rudder.

I know that Jesse already understands this but for the general thread readership:

If you run out while slipping you can even go beyond that although you might be pushing your luck (and probably ought to consider landing elsewhere). If you let the airplane fly coordinated (crabbing) until just before touchdown then apply full rudder into the wind (along with some aileron) the airplane will temporarily yaw further than what you get with a steady state slip. In addition less aileron and bank is needed because the inertia of the plane requires some time before the crosswind begins to impart significant lateral velocity and that also means more rudder is available for yaw. Of course you have to time this pretty well to take full advantage.

And technically Jesse's answer sort of still holds, you've reached the "upper limit" when despite everything you do the airplane cannot be landed safely.

As to the original question on this, a student pilot's answer to the question of crosswind limits should be the lesser of whatever his instructor and/or flight school has stipulated or what the student feels comfortable with

 

[Henning]

Student Pilot pre-solo question (to help with the speed discussion):
What determines the upper limit of the crosswind component the airplane can handle(the answer I'm looking for here is NOT pilot skill - what answer would a student give).

Base further discussion of X-Wind landing configuration/speed from here.

Confession: I too was taught to not use full flaps in strong X-Wind conditions. I was also taught to add 1/2 gust factor to my approach speed. IIRC, that is in the C172P POH (don't have it in front of me). I also had opportunity to perform a multiple configuration landings, including a near cruise speed landing when expediting landing at a certain Class B in my local area.



Am I the only one that thought this is a training accident waiting to happen? Good ideas, yes, but opens the door for possible legal culpability. No???

Rudder authority is what governs max crosswind. Rudder authority is increased with propflow across the rudder which for any given airspeed can be increased with the use of more drag. Most planes only have flaps for doing that.

Why do you have to reduce your flap setting to add 1/2 the gust component to your speed? Why can't you just add some throttle and add control effectiveness from the extra prop flow as well as the extra speed?

 

[Fearless Tower]

LOL, you know when Ron and I agree on a subject and argue with you, you must have it f-d up...

No kidding!

 

[Henning]

I know that Jesse already understands this but for the general thread readership:

If you run out while slipping you can even go beyond that although you might be pushing your luck (and probably ought to consider landing elsewhere). If you let the airplane fly coordinated (crabbing) until just before touchdown then apply full rudder into the wind (along with some aileron) the airplane will temporarily yaw further than what you get with a steady state slip. In addition less aileron and bank is needed because the inertia of the plane requires some time before the crosswind begins to impart significant lateral velocity and that also means more rudder is available for yaw. Of course you have to time this pretty well to take full advantage.

And technically Jesse's answer sort of still holds, you've reached the "upper limit" when despite everything you do the airplane cannot be landed safely.

As to the original question on this, a student pilot's answer to the question of crosswind limits should be the lesser of whatever his instructor and/or flight school has stipulated or what the student feels comfortable with

There is also the factor that the landing gear itself will work to straighten the plane out with the vector of the planes inertia (down the runway) from the direction it's pointing. The problem and why I laugh is because you bring this up to people who haven't yet managed to get a good full flap landing the easy stable way. The extra energy from the extra speed running across the tires just adds more destructive force to the situation there as well and is even tougher to get right.If you screw up in that method with the extra energy, the results can be nothing than worse than the other way.

 

[poadeleted20]

What determines the upper limit of the crosswind component the airplane can handle(the answer I'm looking for here is NOT pilot skill - what answer would a student give).

When you run out of rudder, aileron, or space between the wing tip and the runway. In light singles, it's usually but not always rudder. On the KC-135, it's the outboard engine pod striking the ground. In the Flight Design CTsw, it's aileron authority.

Confession: I too was taught to not use full flaps in strong X-Wind conditions.

Were you given a reason? It's a common enough mantra, but those who say it usually don't have a good reason for saying it other than "That's what I was taught."

I was also taught to add 1/2 gust factor to my approach speed.

That's a common technique, and well-grounded in theory. The problem is that you don't want to run out of speed if the gust dies and it takes time for inertia to be overcome by thrust. It's more a consideration in heavier planes due to the matter of sectional density (weight/presented area), but it's a good concept to learn early.

 

[p1l0t]

Henning I don't need to resort to personal attacks and I won't. Let us stick to the issue at hand. BTW I reffering to your personal attack on another pilot not me.

First of all, increasing your flaps increases INDUCED drag not parasite drag. Your are creating much more lift. The airflow wraps around the wing flap included. High lift and high drag is normally a good thing when landing.

However, in a strong enough crosswind you may want to the airplane to stop flying at a slightly higher speed. Speaking of vectors.. Take out an E6B flight computer and flip it to the wind side. Draw a 15kt wind line and place it at 90 degrees. (Yes I know this is more of a crab calculation). Now move it up and down at varing speeds and notice the correction needed increases more and more dramatically as your forward speed decreases. F=MA anyone? For the extra 5kts of speed we get much more rudder authority at a slight cost of ground roll.

I will fly an approach with full flaps into wind up until I feel like I am running out of rudder pedal. I am not going to sideload it. I am not [yet] going to divert. I am going to reduce my flap setting and try it again. There is a point/situations where directional control is more important than a little extra forward speed. I won't bother to land faster with full flaps, If I have to touchdown faster I want the airplane to be done flying sooner rather than later. Besides its kinda like pressing the gas and the brake at the same time.

Let me also reiterate that we spin the wheels faster on takeoff anyway. I have no idea when anyone is even mentioning the idea of landing at 80kts in small single trainer type aircraft that's just silly.

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[poadeleted20]

It just depends on how much side-load you're willing to accept. I'm not willing to accept much and I've flown in a LOT of wind. There is generally always a way to accomplish the flight without slamming your airplane into a runway sideways.

Also depends on what you're flying. The Ercoupe's gear was designed to handle the unavoidable side loads in an airplane with interconnected aileron and rudder, and no direct rudder control.

 

[poadeleted20]

I will fly an approach with full flaps into wind up until I feel like I am running out of rudder pedal.

I'm wondering what in the heck you're flying that "run out of rudder pedal" at normal approach speeds with full flaps in anything less than a gale-force crosswind component, but is controllable at the 5 or so knot faster speed you'd get at 1.3 Vs with partial flaps.

Also, just how much crosswind do you fly in? I can tell you from experience in a whole bunch of light planes that you don't run out of control authority with full flaps in anything less than about double the max demonstrated crosswind component in any Standard light plane I've ever flown. Only plane I've ever flown which did was the CTsw I mentioned above, which is LSA, not Standard, and really does run out of control authority (aileron, not rudder, and with 30 flap, not the full 40) right at the 16-knot max demonstrated crosswind, and that was hairy enough I won't press the issue in that little tadpole again.

 

[dmccormack]

First of all, increasing your flaps increases INDUCED drag not parasite drag. Your are creating much more lift. The airflow wraps around the wing flap included. High lift and high drag is normally a good thing when landing.

There is an increase in parasite drag with flaps -- the rails, the tracks, the gap between the flaps -- all increase parasite drag, though induced drag is still the larger component.

ILet me also reiterate that we spin the wheels faster on takeoff anyway. I have no idea when anyone is even mentioning the idea of landing at 80kts in small single trainer type aircraft that's just silly

We do? What speed are you airborne in a C172, let's say?

Sure, folks let 172 roll along at 80 on takeoff -- but should they?

 

[Jaybird180]

That's a common technique, and well-grounded in theory. The problem is that you don't want to run out of speed if the gust dies and it takes time for inertia to be overcome by thrust. It's more a consideration in heavier planes due to the matter of sectional density (weight/presented area), but it's a good concept to learn early.

Just so I understand your words: Are you in the 1.3VSo + 0kts camp (regardless of X-Wind)?

 

[poadeleted20]

Just so I understand your words: Are you in the 1.3VSo + 0kts camp (regardless of X-Wind)?

Yes. I add speed only for gusts (using the GF/2 formula). For those unfamiliar, GF is "gust factor," computed as peak gust minus steady state. So, if the wind is 14G22, the GF is 22-14=8, and GF/2 is 4 knots, which I add to my 1.3Vs0 (corrected for weight). No changes just for crosswind alone, and that's worked for me for the last 42 years and 7000+ hours in light planes.

 

[spinfire]

For any given speed assuming zero side load the wear on the tires when rejoining the runway is significantly higher than the wear on the tires when departing the runway. The spinning of the wheels isn't what causes wear, the tires being brought up to speed by touching the runway surface is what causes wear.

 

[p1l0t]

Yes, it is around the demonstrated component of the aircraft that you will start to 'run out of rudder pedal' as I put it. Probably how the test pilots decided on the number. [Guess] I never meant that I takeoff at 80kts either. Yeah parasite drag does increase slighty I suppose but like you say the induced drag is the major increase. Besides, at low speeds it is the induced drag that is the major factor not parasite drag anyway if you look at the Cl/D chart.

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[EdFred]

Yes, it is around the demonstrated component of the aircraft that you will start to 'run out of rudder pedal' as I put it. Probably how the test pilots decided on the number. [Guess] I never meant that I takeoff at 80kts either. Yeah parasite drag does increase slighty I suppose but like you say the induced drag is the major increase. Besides, at low speeds it is the induced drag that is the major factor not parasite drag anyway if you look at the Cl/D chart.

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Not even remotely close to being accurate for a lot of aircraft. I've landed in double the demonstrated crosswind and not run out of rudder. But you are the expert...

 

[p1l0t]

For any given speed assuming zero side load the wear on the tires when rejoining the runway is significantly higher than the wear on the tires when departing the runway. The spinning of the wheels isn't what causes wear, the tires being brought up to speed by touching the runway surface is what causes wear.

Good point. Didn't think about that. Still I suppose 5kts isn't going to be that bad? And a little extra tire wear is worth that centerline on a windy day anytime.

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[p1l0t]

Not even remotely close to being accurate for a lot of aircraft. I've landed in double the demonstrated crosswind and not run out of rudder. But you are the expert...

Well I am no expert. I did land our C-177B with around a 17kt component once. My left foot was almost straight out. I don't go looking for that kind of wind usually though, the forecast was for 10G15 down the runway. Surprise when I got the ATIS but it worked out.

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[Fearless Tower]

Well I am no expert. I did land our C-177B with around a 17kt component once. My left foot was almost straight out.

Really?

Worst x-wind I've ever seen was 30 kts 90 degrees to the runway in a 177RG. I did not run out of rudder, but IIRC, I did touch down with power on for that one.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Since it would appear that we've beaten the full flaps vs partial flaps in a x-wind to death, how about this one:

For those that advocate landning with full flaps for everything, how do you configure for instrument approaches to minimums in light airplanes?

Is it full flaps and gear out all the way down the ILS from GS intercept to the ground like a big jet, or do you select full flaps when you break out.....even if it is at DH?