premature identification

eman1200

eman1200

Touchdown! Greaser!
PoA Supporter
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
19,562
Location
Oakland, CA
Display Name
Display name:
Bro do you even lift
does anyone squeeze out an IDENT sooner than you should.......like AS you're asking for flight following instead of waiting for them to ask for an ident? let me clarify, this never happens to me. I don't do this, but was wondering if there's anything wrong with giving an early flash while you're talking to them. I know they don't always ask for one, sometimes they do.

scenario 1:
eman: Bonooney 69X 5 files from X request FF to Y
ATC: 69X squawk 6969 and ident

scenario 2:
eman: Monanza 69X 5 files from X <IDENT> request FF to Y
ATC: yikes, you, um, ok you idented already, no problem. maybe we can try it again in a few minutes?
 
I have no ATC experience, but I would assume that having an unexpected and unprompted flash on their screen could be a distraction? Not sure how bright or distracting the ident flash is, but it could be one reason not to ident unless asked to do so first.

I would also assume it has everything to do with the controller and how busy their airspace is at the moment as to whether or not they would care.
 
Every time I've asked for flight following in the past year, OK it was only twice, the transponder failed.
First time the "ident" was broken. Paid to get it fixed.
Three weeks later when I pushed the "ident" button the transponder went up in smoke.
I'm a little hesitant about pushing the button anymore.
 
Hahahaha! Nice work, eman.

And no, I *never* do that. ;)
 
Never put yer finger on the trigger until ready to fire...
 
Shepherd said:
Every time I've asked for flight following in the past year, OK it was only twice, the transponder failed.
First time the "ident" was broken. Paid to get it fixed.
Three weeks later when I pushed the "ident" button the transponder went up in smoke.
I'm a little hesitant about pushing the button anymore.
Click to expand...

The Cub has a transponder? ;)
 
Better question, what does the controller actually see when the IDENT button is pushed. Does the symbol change, get brighter, bells and whistles go off?
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better question, what does the controller actually see when the IDENT button is pushed. Does the symbol change, get brighter, bells and whistles go off?
Click to expand...

my GUESS is that your little radar symbol flashes a few times
 
I think the intent is to IDENT after you plug in your xponder code. ATC matches the code they gave you to the IDENT on their screen. I see no benefit to IDENT 1200.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better question, what does the controller actually see when the IDENT button is pushed. Does the symbol change, get brighter, bells and whistles go off?
Click to expand...

Just the code he assigns appears in the aircraft's data block. Now 7700, 7600, and 7500 set off aural alarms and the target blossoms.
 
eman1200 said:
does anyone squeeze out an IDENT sooner than you should.......like AS you're asking for flight following instead of waiting for them to ask for an ident? let me clarify, this never happens to me. I don't do this, but was wondering if there's anything wrong with giving an early flash while you're talking to them. I know they don't always ask for one, sometimes they do.

scenario 1:
eman: Bonooney 69X 5 files from X request FF to Y
ATC: 69X squawk 6969 and ident

scenario 2:
eman: Monanza 69X 5 files from X <IDENT> request FF to Y
ATC: yikes, you, um, ok you idented already, no problem. maybe we can try it again in a few minutes?
Click to expand...
,
AIM para 4-1-20 d. 1.
The transponder must operated only as specified by ATC. Activate the "IDENT" feature only upon request of the ATC controller.
​
Identing without being told to could result in the controller mistaking you for someone he/she told to ident.
 
^^^^ugh, rules and whatnot. what a buzzkill.
 
Not rules. The AIM is not regulatory. :p

It's just a post hypnotic suggestion
 
I ident when ATC insists.....and it’s always as good for them as it was for me. :cool:
 
The only time I've idented without request was when I was having trouble getting a word in... probably didn't help, but it made me feel good.
 
The first time I first touched the "push-to-talk" button, my ident light flashed all over.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I ident anytime I hear them tell anybody to ident.
Click to expand...

This is probably due to your parents neglecting you when you were a child, :eek: and trying to make up for it by demanding attention. :p

But this propensity to ident is socially preferable to the alternative of becoming a serial killer instead. ;)
 
MickYoumans said:
I think the intent is to IDENT after you plug in your xponder code. ATC matches the code they gave you to the IDENT on their screen. I see no benefit to IDENT 1200.
Click to expand...
I've been asked to IDENT 1200 in a climb towards Windsor by a Selfridge controller while on a VFR flight plan. I even clarified and they confirmed. Since radar identification is required to cross Canada, I guess that was good enough for them.
 
mscard88 said:
set off aural alarms
Click to expand...

[/]Begin English lesson

You meant Audible...

As adjectives the difference between audible and aural is that audible is able to be heard while aural is of or pertaining to the ear or aural can be of or pertaining to an aura.

[/]End English Lesson

You're welcome... No tuition payment necessary...:D
 
eman1200 said:
does anyone squeeze out an IDENT sooner than you should.......like AS you're asking for flight following instead of waiting for them to ask for an ident? let me clarify, this never happens to me. I don't do this, but was wondering if there's anything wrong with giving an early flash while you're talking to them. I know they don't always ask for one, sometimes they do.

scenario 1:
eman: Bonooney 69X 5 files from X request FF to Y
ATC: 69X squawk 6969 and ident

scenario 2:
eman: Monanza 69X 5 files from X <IDENT> request FF to Y
ATC: yikes, you, um, ok you idented already, no problem. maybe we can try it again in a few minutes?
Click to expand...

Not to answer your question: I'm not sure why controllers tell people to squawk xxxx and ident. You only need to see the code change. It's like demanding 2 forms of separation (i.e. visual and 1000ft). Minor pet peeve. As a pilot, I don't really care as it's just a button push.

To answer your question: No, I don't IDENT preemptively. Primarily because most controllers here don't make you do it with a code change. That said, a trainee here did have me do it yesterday while flying. It seems to be more prevalent at other places in the country.

The non-commanded IDENT's I have seen: If an airliner thinks you forgot about them (i.e. they think they are high on downwind, they are still 250 kts driving far away from the airport on downwind, etc) they will at times IDENT. Not all do it but I've seen it many times. I usually just reply that I know they are still there. Fighter pilots used to come off the ground on initial check in saying "Killer11, 2 for 10 with a flash". Professional killers but obviously not POA standard of professional phraseology. ;)
 
Radar Contact said:
Correct sir. Just flashes between low and high intensity a few times.
Click to expand...

So then, in theory, a preemptive flash while saying “I’m x miles east of blah blah “ when you’re in busy airspace ‘could’ help them identify your target quicker/easier, no? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t do this and don’t plan to but in theory it seems like it could help.
 
MickYoumans said:
I think the intent is to IDENT after you plug in your xponder code. ATC matches the code they gave you to the IDENT on their screen. I see no benefit to IDENT 1200.
Click to expand...

Plugging in the code is enough to be legal for radar identification. You data tag changes from limited to your full callsign. ATC doesn't need to match the code to the IDENT but can at their discretion. A lot of VFR towers will tell aircraft to IDENT on a 1200 code. They can then give you pattern entry instructions, general traffic awareness etc. I will do it at times if I get a crappy position report and I think the plane is in someone else's airspace. The VFR flashes and if he is, I switch him to the appropriate controller. Beats giving them a code and then going back to 1200 in rapid succession.
 
eman1200 said:
So then, in theory, a preemptive flash while saying “I’m x miles east of blah blah “ when you’re in busy airspace ‘could’ help them identify your target quicker/easier, no? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t do this and don’t plan to but in theory it seems like it could help.
Click to expand...
It for sure could help them ID you. The problem is, if you don't tell them you are IDENT'ing then they can't just assume it is you. Therefor they will still have to officially radar ID you in order to provide a service. Some controllers may get peeved by it.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better question, what does the controller actually see when the IDENT button is pushed. Does the symbol change, get brighter, bells and whistles go off?
Click to expand...
We see three bright lines over the target that cycles for three hits, or about 15 seconds. It's just a method to draw your eyes to the target. If im busy, I might ask for an ident. I'm likely finishing up another task quickly (like go off line to coordinate) and the IDENT will be a reminder to radar identify the aircraft.
 
This thread has drifted into single entendre! :rolleyes:

Thought we could do better than that. Sheesh.
 
FlySince9 said:
[/]Begin English lesson

You meant Audible...

As adjectives the difference between audible and aural is that audible is able to be heard while aural is of or pertaining to the ear or aural can be of or pertaining to an aura.

[/]End English Lesson

You're welcome... No tuition payment necessary...:D
Click to expand...

Begin aviation jargon lesson:

Perhaps but they do address them as aural alarms, and in airplanes also, correct? Here's a boring example:


Aviation lesson complete. ;)
 
Last edited:
Radar Contact said:
Plugging in the code is enough to be legal for radar identification. You data tag changes from limited to your full callsign. ATC doesn't need to match the code to the IDENT but can at their discretion. A lot of VFR towers will tell aircraft to IDENT on a 1200 code. They can then give you pattern entry instructions, general traffic awareness etc. I will do it at times if I get a crappy position report and I think the plane is in someone else's airspace. The VFR flashes and if he is, I switch him to the appropriate controller. Beats giving them a code and then going back to 1200 in rapid succession.
Click to expand...

Yep. I’ve been asked to ident quite a few times on initial contact at Class D airports while squawking 1200. Dupage did it a lot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top