Prebuy Question

Groundpounder

Groundpounder

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Emerson Bigguns
We're having a prebuy done, and the owner is flying it to my shop, and is planning on flying it home the same day. I'm thinking once the prebuy is done, he doesn't fly it any more. What if something gets damaged between the prebuy and when we take delivery of the airplane? Am I wrong?
 
Until the money changes hands and the pink slip is signed? It’s his plane. If you decide to buy it? You should just do an annual and take ownership of the condition, not just the appearance.
 
Stewartb said:
Until the money changes hands and the pink slip is signed? It’s his plane. If you decide to buy it? You should just do an annual and take ownership of the condition, not just the appearance.
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What does that mean?
 
I don’t get it. U say he’s flying it home after the prebuy but also say he’s not flying it after the prebuy. Which is it? Do u have a purchase agreement that lays any of the details out?
 
eman1200 said:
I don’t get it. U say he’s flying it home after the prebuy but also say he’s not flying it after the prebuy. Which is it? Do u have a purchase agreement that lays any of the details out?
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Purchase agreement is being signed today. It doesn't specify what happens after the prebuy. What I am saying is in my mind no one should fly the airplane between the prebuy and the aircraft changing hands. But I am trying to get a feel for what is the normal thing people do in these situations.
 
Groundpounder said:
What does that mean?
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A “pre buy” is a beauty contest. An annual is a defined condition inspection. The mechanics I hang out with won’t do pre buy inspections, but they’ll do annuals and sign their names to them. If I’m buying an airworthy airplane I want my guy to sign it off as airworthy.
 
Stewartb said:
A “pre buy” is a beauty contest. An annual is a defined condition inspection. The mechanics I hang out with won’t do pre buy inspections, but they’ll do annuals and sign their names to them. If I’m buying an airworthy airplane I want my guy to sign it off as airworthy.
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Thankfully I am not going to your mechanic.
 
Don’t ask the questions that you don’t want answered.

Good luck with your first annual.
 
Stewartb said:
A “pre buy” is a beauty contest. An annual is a defined condition inspection. The mechanics I hang out with won’t do pre buy inspections, but they’ll do annuals and sign their names to them. If I’m buying an airworthy airplane I want my guy to sign it off as airworthy.
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The mechanics I hang out with will do most things involving nudity and money, perhaps even a pre-buy without nudity but the pre-buy on our plane was converted to an annual.
 
So you want him to leave his plane, at your shop, until the deal closes? I certainly wouldn't do that until I had the money in my hands.
 
gdwindowpane said:
So you want him to leave his plane, at your shop, until the deal closes? I certainly wouldn't do that until I had the money in my hands.
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I understand that part, but lets say he flies it home and something happens to the airplane that isn't visible to the naked eye. Is that just part of the risk of buying an airplane and I am being paranoid? And the same thing could happen if we paid for an annual vs "just" a prebuy.
 
Groundpounder said:
We're having a prebuy done, and the owner is flying it to my shop, and is planning on flying it home the same day. I'm thinking once the prebuy is done, he doesn't fly it any more. What if something gets damaged between the prebuy and when we take delivery of the airplane? Am I wrong?
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I've never done a pre-purchase inspection without a conditional purchase agreement in place, a deposit in escrow and ready to immediately wire remaining funds to close if the inspection is satisfactory.

A properly done pre-purchase is not an annual, and it's not a "beauty contest" either. Among other things it should definitively determine if the airplane is as represented, and provides a basis to negotiate adjustment to the closing price if it isn't (assuming both parties still want to go ahead with a deal).

Unless the Seller agrees otherwise (put it in the P&S) you have no right to demand they ground their airplane after the pre-purchase inspection if you aren't ready to close the deal immediately.
 
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Groundpounder said:
We're having a prebuy done, and the owner is flying it to my shop, and is planning on flying it home the same day. I'm thinking once the prebuy is done, he doesn't fly it any more. What if something gets damaged between the prebuy and when we take delivery of the airplane? Am I wrong?
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Have the paper work and money ready to go. If it passes prebuy, close the deal and you fly him home.
 
GRG55 said:
I've never done a pre-purchase inspection without a conditional purchase agreement in place, a deposit in escrow and ready to immediately wire remaining funds to close if the inspection is satisfactory.

A properly done pre-purchase is not an annual, and it's not a "beauty contest" either. Among other things it should definitively determine if the airplane is as represented, and provides a basis to negotiate adjustment to the closing price if it isn't (assuming both parties still want to go ahead with a deal).

You have no right to demand the seller ground their airplane after the pre-purchase inspection if you aren't ready to close the deal immediately.
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Ok, that makes sense. Thank you.
 
Groundpounder said:
Purchase agreement is being signed today. It doesn't specify what happens after the prebuy.
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It should be your airplane, his money. Unless, of course, the plane doesn't pass your inspection. The agreement doesn't state something like this? Not going through an escrow agent?
 
Groundpounder said:
I understand that part, but lets say he flies it home and something happens to the airplane that isn't visible to the naked eye. Is that just part of the risk of buying an airplane and I am being paranoid? And the same thing could happen if we paid for an annual vs "just" a prebuy.
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Quite simple, he damages the aircraft, you don't buy it.
 
to me, there is no criteria for the inspection, so it becomes what do you want me to do?
 
Stewartb said:
A “pre buy” is a beauty contest. An annual is a defined condition inspection. The mechanics I hang out with won’t do pre buy inspections, but they’ll do annuals and sign their names to them. If I’m buying an airworthy airplane I want my guy to sign it off as airworthy.
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That's what I did when I bought the Sport 23 years ago. Flew commercially down to Biloxi, MS paid with certified check. Flew it back to Juneau with a fresh annual.
 
You need to disassemble the plane down to atoms. Otherwise, if the slightest discrepancy is found after purchase, you will be accused of an insufficiently rigorous prebuy.
 
Groundpounder said:
Purchase agreement is being signed today. It doesn't specify what happens after the prebuy. What I am saying is in my mind no one should fly the airplane between the prebuy and the aircraft changing hands. But I am trying to get a feel for what is the normal thing people do in these situations.
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If you don't want it flown after the pre-buy, you need to have money in hand (or escrow) and close the deal immediately after you're happy with the results of the pre-buy. Or have alternate language specifically spelled out in the purchase agreement (though I don't know why he'd agree to it if you aren't closing immediately).
 
My prebuy WAS an annual... Thank goodness (as it turned out). I don’t understand why you are doing a prebuy only to let him fly it away. If it passes the prebuy... buy it (if you’re satisfied with the results)pay him for his expenses and send him on his way.
 
A pre buy is not a right of ownership,if your happy with the pre buy,give the owner the check and sign the papers. I usually turn the pre buy into an annual,to save a few bucks.
 
GeorgeC said:
You need to disassemble the plane down to atoms. Otherwise, if the slightest discrepancy is found after purchase, you will be accused of an insufficiently rigorous prebuy.
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Atoms! Are you crazy? Quarks at least!
 
Groundpounder said:
Thankfully I am not going to your mechanic.
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StewartB had it dead on the money. You come in here on your first airplane and tell those of us who do it for a living how the world works. I've had students like that. I could guarantee you from day one what their final grade was going to look like.

Jim
 
AKBill said:
That's what I did when I bought the Sport 23 years ago. Flew commercially down to Biloxi, MS paid with certified check. Flew it back to Juneau with a fresh annual.
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How did you fly your new plane with a temp registration over Canada?
 
brien23 said:
How did you fly your new plane with a temp registration over Canada?
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Well I must say I was new to plane ownership as well as flying, had about 100 hrs at the time. Flight was from Biloxi, MS to Chicago ( I owned a home there and wanted to stop by and gather a few things. I was working in Alaska so it was a short layover.) Chicago to Seattle then Seattle to Juneau. It was 1996 I filed flight plans, carried all the paperwork of the purchase. Went through customs at Port Hardy, BC and Ketchikan, AK. No one asked about ownership, I just filed and flew the trip. 1 day to Chicago, 2 days to Seattle, and 1 day to Juneau...:)
 
Lot's of folks did it that way, because no one gave a rat's Pa-toot
 
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weirdjim said:
StewartB had it dead on the money. You come in here on your first airplane and tell those of us who do it for a living how the world works. I've had students like that. I could guarantee you from day one what their final grade was going to look like.

Jim
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Thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate it.
 
Groundpounder said:
We're delaying the prebuy a week or so to get all our ducks in a row. I don't want to jinx anything, so no pics till the keys are in my hand.
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Late to the game, but for what it’s worth

The prebuy should be the most in-depth inspection you ever put the plane through, get a worthy AP/IA who’s hopefully also a pilot to go through the whole thing, including the paperwork, get the FAA records Cd and compare it to the logs, run a NTSB search by N number and serial number, match the NTSB to the FAA CD to the logs to the aircraft inspection.

The a real prebuy should exceed a annual, airworthiness is EXPECTED, that’s just the starting point, condition takes a even deeper look, verify all avionics work, plane flys close to book numbers (do before the dismantle part of things lol), the plane is expected to be as represented, any snags come off the price or are fixed by the owner. Also verify no issues with the registration off the FAA registration CD

If the plane passes that, transfer the money and he signs the paperwork and bada bing.
 
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